1. #381
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    The guide has once again been extensively updated:

    - Note for 5.1
    - changed the spell descriptions based on 5.1 changes
    - changed some details in the basic gameplay
    - added clustered vs. spread AoE
    - added 6-Charge camping
    - added how starting a fight should look like
    - clarified some details for level 75 and level 90 talents
    - removed some overcomplications on the level 90 talents
    - removed the overly long stat weight analyses and target dummy tests
    - added specific differences between haste and mastery oriented gameplay
    - clarified hit chance calculation
    - clarified trinket ranking for haste oriented gameplay
    - simplified reforging and gemming strategies
    - rephrased some addon information
    - removed the "tips and tricks" section as it was practically empty
    - added closing remarks for 5.1
    - improved some typos


    Hahaha and by improved some typos I mean fixed them
    Last edited by Shangalar; 2012-12-31 at 01:46 AM.

  2. #382
    Very Helpful

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    Interesting. If I have the energy, I'll test it in LFR tonight (lost a 30 minute queue today when I went to open the door so I just pressed escape exit game). Byt this gameplay style smells... abominable
    mmmmm your choice of words turns me on a little

    that said I totally agree, as much as every mage got all antsy pants when we heard about invocation I don't see how this is much different than having to put down a rune every time you move, which apparently is way to much casting limiting movement

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by voltaa View Post
    mmmmm your choice of words turns me on a little

    that said I totally agree, as much as every mage got all antsy pants when we heard about invocation I don't see how this is much different than having to put down a rune every time you move, which apparently is way to much casting limiting movement
    The more times you have to cast the more damage you lose, so the more movement the worse rune will be. Invocation helps with that.

  5. #385
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    But essentially it boils down to the same thing. The issue with Arcane is that we use Rune because of the mana regen and we don't use Invocation also because of the mana regen. Fire and Frost mages use Invocation because it's 25% more damage and for Frost it's especially great because of the Haste heavy build.

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by DreamSpyre View Post
    The more times you have to cast the more damage you lose, so the more movement the worse rune will be. Invocation helps with that.
    and while i do see that point in that, if you are recasting a LONGER spell frequetly is negates the entire argument, you are channeling for 5 seconds every x seconds regardless due to mana constraints

  7. #387
    Thank you for the update!

  8. #388
    Bloodsail Admiral spaace's Avatar
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    Long day at work.. missed lots here D:

    Quote Originally Posted by DreamSpyre View Post
    Finally got to sit and look at these, but they look promising. Uptime for Invokers on Tsulong seems really low for some reason, but decent on all the other fights. I definitely think you could pull some bigger numbers after getting used to it for more time, Probably #1 on all of those fights with enough time at the spec. My only questions, did you reforge with crit as a higher priority than mastery, or just use the normal haste arcane reforges? And how do you feel it measured up to the normal Rune playstyle?
    SOMETIMES, I have about 10sec left and I hit evoke.. Many times though, I hit it at about 4 sec left.. so it refreshes as it hits 0.. and I'm still happily above 25% mana.

    Typical rotation is keeping 1 AM proc up, incase I do go 3-4 AB without a proc, then I use it up.. and when NT is about to run out, I usually burn both AM(if I got them), as incase NT procs, plus the AB I'm already casting.



    It's about knowing the fight and your raid also.... goes for anything where you're using Invocation. Need to know when is best to refresh it, etc..
    I LOVED ROP when I first hit 90.. used it as fire and it seemed fun, right? Then I learned how how use invocation right.. and now it's just better in every possible way (imho)

    For reforges.. I played a LOT with simcraft, and actual testing. Everything is different for every piece of gear. I managed to get a few pieces, seeing as it was an alt/pug etc run this week, so I did squeeze a bit more haste then I had.

    =for:mage-arcane,Int:4.73,SP:3.8,Crit:1.84,Haste:3.24,Mastery:2.03 is what I had with bare stats. Now that I'm fully reforged and stuff.. I think its like 1.79 / 2.05 / 2.0 (c/h/m).. but I can't find a way to tell SC to get OUT of mastery, while still giving it value.. That's where I have to use askmrrobot/wowreforge, play around with those and figure out how to get the most out of my reforges.

    One thing I noticed too... When I "go frost", it LOVES my reforges...


    -It almost seems viable to gem mastery with either full int gems, or full haste (until gcd cap...)

    Reguarding Tsulong.. Ya it probably fell off during the day... probably was doing/typing somethings. XD

    I wish I met my guild last xpac Joined kinda late in the tier, so I missed out on some possible parses
    I need to try to remember to log and upload more often..
    Last edited by spaace; 2012-12-31 at 04:56 AM.
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  9. #389
    I'm about to hit 90 on my mage finally after a long break from the game, and I've been reading through this thread a bit since I want to try arcane (haven't since Wrath so the whole play style is fairly new and fun for me). I've been intrigued by some of the conversation in the past few pages about the haste vs. mastery styles. Obviously it's not touched on much, but starting out fresh into dungeons/raids with average gear (460 range) will one style dominate the other? They seem close at higher levels of gear, based on what I'm reading, but that may not be the case for intro level gear? Or, perhaps, fire/frost are better at this level? I have no idea. Having trouble finding info on pre-raid mentality
    Last edited by Dukamok; 2012-12-31 at 07:37 PM.

  10. #390
    Bloodsail Admiral spaace's Avatar
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    starting out, frost would be better.. especially for heroics. once you start to get a few epics from LFR, then arcane will weigh more. but, if you're a good mage then it wouldn't matter.

    I kinda just wish blizzard would make up their mind about what they want from mages.. Frost was great for pvp.. then to make it PVE, they fucked it up.. arcane has either been stupid good or stupid bad.. and fire's been up and down more times then paladins.
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  11. #391
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    Little confused on what makes a real haste-build. Which is correct?

    1. Essentially: Intellect -> Spell Power -> Hit+Expertise to 15% -> Haste to 3056 (suggested 3300-3400) -> Mastery -> Haste -> Crit
    2. "go all out haste" (I'm paraphrasing from a different post, which to me says there is no softcap)

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by NeerDeth View Post
    Little confused on what makes a real haste-build. Which is correct?

    1. Essentially: Intellect -> Spell Power -> Hit+Expertise to 15% -> Haste to 3056 (suggested 3300-3400) -> Mastery -> Haste -> Crit
    2. "go all out haste" (I'm paraphrasing from a different post, which to me says there is no softcap)
    It's option two basically. There are some soft caps to worry about, but those are only coming into play if you have the Essence of Terror trinket in any version, and those so far aren't applying to the Invocation Arcane playstyle atm.

  13. #393
    Dreadlord teebo's Avatar
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    Going to give arcane the go tonite. Also Have 3000kish valor to spend. How does my character look? Ignore meta gem, I made the wrong one.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...t/Teebo/simple

    I dont raid anymore but I still like to stay on top as much as I can.
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  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by teebo View Post
    Going to give arcane the go tonite. Also Have 3000kish valor to spend. How does my character look? Ignore meta gem, I made the wrong one.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...t/Teebo/simple

    I dont raid anymore but I still like to stay on top as much as I can.
    upgrade your weapon since you dont raid much then your tiers (leg then gloves)
    http://oce.op.gg/summoner/userName=soulstrikes in oceanic now Lol

    5172-1206-0622 pokemon FC Lets Battle!!

  15. #395
    I have a question regarding fight-by-fight basis:

    I've noticed nearly every mage goes RoP and I just can't fathom some fights being done with RoP (Almost any HM). Do I use Invocation most often aside from that or IW if my knowledge of the fight is good?

  16. #396
    Dreadlord teebo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstrike View Post
    upgrade your weapon since you dont raid much then your tiers (leg then gloves)
    Alright. 1h sword is better then the staff or the dagger?
    "Let me answer your question with another, How would you feel if you found out you were a potato?"

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  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldvibes View Post
    I have a question regarding fight-by-fight basis:

    I've noticed nearly every mage goes RoP and I just can't fathom some fights being done with RoP (Almost any HM). Do I use Invocation most often aside from that or IW if my knowledge of the fight is good?
    RoP is a huge pain on the Dogs (unless you have a very forgiving raid group who won't make you do the tiles) but pretty much everything else in MSV is no problem, possible exception of Spirit Kings.
    It's no trouble at all on the first three bosses of Terrace and its only downside on Sha is making it slightly harder to dodge the incoming missiles.
    Garalon's not great for Rune, especially if you need to kite him.
    But... those are about all the encounters where it's a big problem? I only have much heroic experience in MSV (we've done bits of HoF but no kills, Christmas messed us up a bit!) but nothing added to any of the encounters in the journal or from videos I've watched seem like they would make fights significantly harder for a Rune-Mage.
    The rest of the time it's almost certainly just that you are more used to Invocation.

    And let me assure you, there are very few situations where mana/time is not superior to that same amount of mana in one big chunk for an Arcane mage. It would be very helpful for you to learn how to use both, I think.


    Remember that the Rune is slightly larger than it looks and you need only stand on the edge, not the centre, to receive full benefit. You can do the whole of Attenuation without leaving the comfort of your little circle on the ground if you know what you are doing.

  18. #398
    Bloodsail Admiral spaace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    Remember that the Rune is slightly larger than it looks and you need only stand on the edge, not the centre, to receive full benefit. You can do the whole of Attenuation without leaving the comfort of your little circle on the ground if you know what you are doing.
    Only works if other people can dodge it too! ;D




    One of the major influences is that invocation is 25%, versus the 15%. Better initial burst ;D

    Oh.. and I really don't notice the mana regen difference between haste and mastery builds...
    Last edited by spaace; 2013-01-03 at 04:23 AM.
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  19. #399
    I still really want to see some actual maths for how Haste > Regen works, because I swear it is solely meant to be there to compensate for your increased casting speed rather than as a way to gain "bonus" mana regeneration.
    The tooltip is unhelpfully vague though.

  20. #400
    Bloodsail Admiral spaace's Avatar
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    I might try molten armor for a boss or something tonight.. see how that affects me.
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