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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Couac View Post
    And how does it make it invalid? It states it doesn't include digital sales and that the figures are speculation based on previous expansion sales. That's all it says. It doesn't say "WoW will fall lolololol!" or does it? Why so defensive?
    It is invalid because retail sales in 2012 mean nothing, nada, zilch.

    While the article is not saying this, people love using stuff like this and going "WoW will fail lololool!"

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Karazee View Post
    It's much more likely that he's interested because he wants to start a troll/flame thread about how WoW is losing subs or gaining subs (whichever is his preferred side of the fence). People who actually ARE interested in the industry know enough about it to know you can't see sales after half a morning, before stores are actually open.
    I totally agree with you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Hemet was behind Garrosh's escape and time travel just so he could hunt big game on old Draenor.

  3. #23
    Pandaren Monk Kilpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faw View Post
    People who are interested in the industry care about this stuff. If you're not interested in the economical factor of video games, then just go on and play games, but don't assume that nobody cares.
    But when on a fansite people talk about WoW's sales or subscription numbers, it usually is because they wan't a reason to bash the game. Spend some time in here and you'll notice.

  4. #24
    I thought I was the only one left of our Wotlk 25 man raid group. I later found out 90% are still playing, just on different servers/characters.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Couac View Post
    A sneak peek into the future:

    http://www.vgchartz.com/article/2503...s-of-pandaria/

    MoP sales figure speculation is at the end of the post.
    As a reminder all sales figures are for retail only, and do not include digital sales.
    What's the point of even discussing it then? I'd estimate maybe 1 in 5 to 8 actually bought a retail copy. And that's probably still far too high.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    It is invalid because retail sales in 2012 mean nothing, nada, zilch.

    While the article is not saying this, people love using stuff like this and going "WoW will fail lololool!"
    Speculation per se is hardly invalid because for it to be invalid it'd have to be stated as a fact that can be proven wrong.

    While it is true that future cannot be foreseen from the past, it doesn't mean this speculation is "invalid". Valid information can have several forms. In this case past sales figures aren't invalid and they clearly have a meaning. If a company X has sold 3 M units of a product in 2009, 2010 and 2011, and in 2012 there's reason to believe, based on prepurchase information, that there will be some change, shareholders are more than interested in to know whether or not the company will hold on to its success. Ever heard of business analysts who keep an eye on a company's product line and make decisions based on their own speculations of future profits? And when the company succeeds better than expected, share price rises. When it fails, share price falls and owners lose money.

    So yes, in some respects pre-launch information is valid information and is valuable material to some of us. 4th quarter will tell the exact value of the said speculation but you're in no position to say yet if it's invalid or not.

    By the way, your "only 4 out of 30 bought physical box" is an invalid argument. Is that a universal fact or did you omit telling of the people who quit altogether? I can tell you my story: 7 friends, 2 bought MoP, 1 retail, 1 digital. Does that mean that half of MoP sales are digital? No, it means more than 2/3 have quit and haven't bought either of those versions. Same in our guild. I don't know how many people have quit, but so many I've lost track. If 20 people have quit, 10 remain and 7 of those bought the digital, does it mean sales are up? Nope.

  7. #27
    vgchartz is crap by the way. Almost every game they get proven dead wrong and not even by a little bit.

    After the developer gives actual information about units sold, it can be off by 50% or more. At most it gives a little bit of a trend but it is not like the companies or stores all give them their sales figures.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Couac View Post
    Speculation per se is hardly invalid because for it to be invalid it'd have to be stated as a fact that can be proven wrong.

    While it is true that future cannot be foreseen from the past, it doesn't mean this speculation is "invalid". Valid information can have several forms. In this case past sales figures aren't invalid and they clearly have a meaning. If a company X has sold 3 M units of a product in 2009, 2010 and 2011, and in 2012 there's reason to believe, based on prepurchase information, that there will be some change, shareholders are more than interested in to know whether or not the company will hold on to its success. Ever heard of business analysts who keep an eye on a company's product line and make decisions based on their own speculations of future profits? And when the company succeeds better than expected, share price rises. When it fails, share price falls and owners lose money.

    So yes, in some respects pre-launch information is valid information and is valuable material to some of us. 4th quarter will tell the exact value of the said speculation but you're in no position to say yet if it's invalid or not.

    By the way, your "only 4 out of 30 bought physical box" is an invalid argument. Is that a universal fact or did you omit telling of the people who quit altogether? I can tell you my story: 7 friends, 2 bought MoP, 1 retail, 1 digital. Does that mean that half of MoP sales are digital? No, it means more than 2/3 have quit and haven't bought either of those versions. Same in our guild. I don't know how many people have quit, but so many I've lost track. If 20 people have quit, 10 remain and 7 of those bought the digital, does it mean sales are up? Nope.
    I love your example!

    Total sales speculation is 100% valid and very valuable to BAs and Stockholders of the company selling the product.

    Your linked article is not about total sales it is about Retail sales therefore in the context of this thread and your example they are irrelevant!

    If you linked an article about total sales everything your discussing and in the context of this thread it would be 100% valid and we would not be having this discussion.

    Retail sales only matter to one set of people the actual retailers and the stockholders and BAs of those retailers, if this thread was about how do Amazon fell about the sales of MoP then your article would be 100% relevant.

    Thanks!

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Pancaspe View Post
    I love all the "legitimate sounding reasons" people give for their interest in sales. The truth is, they are haters that are certain nobody would want a game with Pandas. The shock of the record sales, followed by a new record high in subs for Blizzard's best content ever will be great for these people.
    What? No, people are interested in sales of games they like, too.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    People who are that interested in the business side of video games would also know that sales figures wouldn't be released until AT LEAST the next business day, and would not be asking on a fansite for data. Further, seeing as the normal business day has not even started at Blizzard HQ, it's far too early to be looking for that. Realistically, sales figures are usually not released to the public for a few days to a week.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pancaspe View Post
    I love all the "legitimate sounding reasons" people give for their interest in sales. The truth is, they are haters that are certain nobody would want a game with Pandas. The shock of the record sales, followed by a new record high in subs for Blizzard's best content ever will be great for these people.

    There are more than just the economic investors, i.e.; players-people who have invested time (and money) into the game, and they are very much allowed to be curious about its current well-being; or people interested in picking up the game, but don't want to start a game that is already past its prime. Of course, people that have not invested time and money into the game are also allowed to be curious, since it is a hugely popular game that is constantly in the news, and the focus of multiple academic studies.

    He's asking where he can check them. I think mmoc is a perfectly appropriate place to ask if such a source exists, seeing how it is centered on posting data-mined information about the game, and discussing the game. It's completely reasonable to post asking if there is a place that would display that data.
    Last edited by painweaver; 2012-09-26 at 01:07 PM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    I love your example!

    Total sales speculation is 100% valid and very valuable to BAs and Stockholders of the company selling the product.

    Your linked article is not about total sales it is about Retail sales therefore in the context of this thread and your example they are irrelevant!

    If you linked an article about total sales everything your discussing and in the context of this thread it would be 100% valid and we would not be having this discussion.

    Retail sales only matter to one set of people the actual retailers and the stockholders and BAs of those retailers, if this thread was about how do Amazon fell about the sales of MoP then your article would be 100% relevant.

    Thanks!
    /facepalm

    Either you don't understand or you don't want to understand. I suspect both. We don't seem to talking about the same things. You're screaming 'invalid' over one link that wasn't even trying to prove anything. It was a link for the OP - Original Poster if you don't understand that either - because s/he was looking for more information on sales. Then there was talk about how even speculation can be valuable information to those who know how to interpret it correctly in the right context with the right knowledge of the past. And then comes your argument about... what? To be perfectly honest, I don't really follow you anymore. So you're trying to prove that speculation about sales is invalid because it's speculation? Did you understand why I wrote about shares and stocks and so forth? Did I write somewhere that VGChartz is always right and that those numbers there are a) absolutely correct and have been miraculously foreseen into the future, and b) they include all sales of all times? Hmm, no.

    I think we have a serious case of Straw Man here.

    PS: The link was perfectly relevant for this thread. "Where can I check MoP sales?" You cannot, so you can only guess. And VGChartz has guessed. Therefore it is relevant in respect to this context. It is up to the OP to decide whether it is useful to them or not. Not you.

    Thanks!

  12. #32
    People ask not to bash persay, but because they are angry. Angry at Blizzard for what they have done to their beloved franchise. MoP is a joke... it's a reskinned Cataclysm with Pet Battling the new feature... pet battling.. really?

    The game's depth has become more and more shallow after Burning Crusade... I truly do not recognize it anymore.

    I must admit.. I want to see the sales prove very poor... (they are... friends list full of people not logged in for months) in order for Blizzard to change course in their design philosophy.

    The whole "zone sharing" thing... was an admission of their own expectations. They know (and probably are fine with it) that WoW is finally losing it's draw.

    I miss WoW... but then again, it hasn't BEEN WoW since BC.

  13. #33
    Stood in the Fire
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    There are resources available for estimates, primarily the websites of retailers like amazon.com. The sales rank used to be a solid indicator of sales results. Unfortunately, this is not as reliable with the overwhelming shift to digital sales. Also, MoP has not been in the top 10 on amazon.com. Below those top performers, the estimates become even more invalid, as well as disappointing.

    They may shift up once amazon.com updates their top sellers, but I doubt will get any unofficial reports of numbers until ATVI weighs in.

  14. #34
    Legendary! vindicatorx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faw View Post
    People who are interested in the industry care about this stuff. If you're not interested in the economical factor of video games, then just go on and play games, but don't assume that nobody cares.
    yeah and if you looked at OP's last post right before this one saying if MoP doesn't sell a certain number ...

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Pancaspe View Post
    I love all the "legitimate sounding reasons" people give for their interest in sales. The truth is, they are haters that are certain nobody would want a game with Pandas. The shock of the record sales, followed by a new record high in subs for Blizzard's best content ever will be great for these people.
    You could be very right.

    However, I have seen every WOW expansion release. There are 2 gaming stores within a very short distance of where I work (one within looking distance) along with a some larger retail outlets that carry WOW.

    In the past, all had some sort of midnight release. None of them had it this time. No midnight release at all.

    Even as a gamer that did not buy this game, I'm curious as to why that was and just how is it selling? As a gamer I'd like to know if for nothing else but satiate my curiosity.
    Last edited by quras; 2012-09-26 at 02:14 PM.

  16. #36
    Herald of the Titans Kathranis's Avatar
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    VGChartz really isn't to be trusted in this age of digital release and downloads. The bulk of Mists of Pandaria's sales are going to be digital, apart from people who bought the Collector's Edition. Many, many people got the digital and deluxe digital releases instead of physical copies. Most of those players doing new MoP content right at midnight were digital, not retail.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowCrafter View Post
    One thing we do know is that it definitely won't be beating cata sales, 60% of my friends 25 man raiding guild is not returning to the game now. Another 25 man raiding guild bites the dust.
    I saw a post in another thread where a guy said there are suddenly 40 people online in his guild at most times and that it wasn't like that since early Cata or something. Who's to believe now, oh my God, the uncertainness of life.

  18. #38
    Herald of the Titans Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    Even as a gamer that did not buy this game, I'm curious as to why that was and just how is it selling? As a gamer I'd like to know if for nothing else but satiate my curiosity.
    Again, digital releases. Apart from the big launch events in places like Irvine, where you can go out and see developers, there's not much reason for it. Most of the smaller midnights launches amount to waiting in line for a couple hours without food, water, or bathroom access, and then going home to play the game.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    People ask not to bash persay, but because they are angry. Angry at Blizzard for what they have done to their beloved franchise. MoP is a joke... it's a reskinned Cataclysm with Pet Battling the new feature... pet battling.. really?

    The game's depth has become more and more shallow after Burning Crusade... I truly do not recognize it anymore.

    I must admit.. I want to see the sales prove very poor... (they are... friends list full of people not logged in for months) in order for Blizzard to change course in their design philosophy.

    The whole "zone sharing" thing... was an admission of their own expectations. They know (and probably are fine with it) that WoW is finally losing it's draw.

    I miss WoW... but then again, it hasn't BEEN WoW since BC.
    I'm really enjoying MoP, so I hope they will produce more of the same! As for you, well, no matter - if you think BC was the pinnacle then you are likely an elitist type raider, and the game has definitely moved on from a target audience that includes you (thankfully, since I'm not an elitist type raider).

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    Again, digital releases. Apart from the big launch events in places like Irvine, where you can go out and see developers, there's not much reason for it. Most of the smaller midnights launches amount to waiting in line for a couple hours without food, water, or bathroom access, and then going home to play the game.
    I am just curious as to what happened to all the people that bought the collectors edition because it was the collectors edition. These sales made up the bulk of pre launch Cata sales in the past, so what happened? I admit, some would have gone to digital deluxe, but certainly not all, as alot would have stuck with eh CE just to have the box. I own CE's of all the major games that matter to me. But Cata was the last for a WoW product for me. I have the Starcraft CE, but D3 I went digital because of my distrust of Blizzard products after Cata, and as far as MoP goes, I have a strong feeling that I will never purchase that.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-26 at 11:38 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ContentsMayVary View Post
    I'm really enjoying MoP, so I hope they will produce more of the same! As for you, well, no matter - if you think BC was the pinnacle then you are likely an elitist type raider, and the game has definitely moved on from a target audience that includes you (thankfully, since I'm not an elitist type raider).
    If you thought BC was great and near the peak of WoW you were an elitist? ROFL, seriously buddy, pull your head out of your ass before you make comments like that. A LOT of people felt BC was the peak. Wrath was a huge raiding improvement, but BC was still the peak of the game as a whole. If you loved WoW for the gameplay, because lets face it, no one plays it solely for the secondary skills unless you are an auction house nut, BC was the peak. The skill trees truly allowed unique builds then, and more depth than you will ever see going forward, PvP was truly entertaining, and combat was fun. I didn't raid at all during BC, but I still loved that expansion more than any other. But I guess in your eyes I am an elitist raider so my opinion matters not.

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