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  1. #1

    By Blood and Honor: What Needs to Happen to Bring Back Alliance Pride

    First off, a disclaimer in large letters so I don't have to hear bitching from people who didn't read my post:

    This thread is not to discuss whether or not Blizzard favors the Horde. There are already plenty of threads on that topic, and most of them just devolve into a flamefest.

    Right, then.

    I don't think it's a secret to anyone that the Alliance lacks the same pride that the Horde has. Many have argued the reasons for this, but I believe it ultimately comes down to how poorly the Alliance has been handled. I will not speculate on why they have been handled so poorly - as the disclaimer mentions, there are plenty of pointless threads that already do this. I will, instead, outline what I believe needs to happen to even the faction pride.

    1. The Alliance needs more heroes, and the heroes they have need to stay Alliance.

    Throughout WoW's history, many of the Alliance's best have given up their allegiance to the Alliance in order to serve the needs of Azeroth as a whole. I understand why they do this, and it can be a great plot device, but it needs to stop. If they want to make them neutral for an expansion before returning them to their proper faction - as they're doing with Thrall - that's fine, but don't take away figures central to the Alliance. Tirion dissolving the Knights of the Silver Hand to make a neutral faction would have been fine for just Wrath, but the loss of one of the first and greatest Paladins was a heavy one. Malfurion turning from his people to stop the destruction of the world is understandable, but they need him now.

    2. What heroes the Alliance does have need to be more active.

    Playing as the Horde, you really feel the presence of your leaders. They interact with you pretty frequently, and you see them throughout your questing career. The Alliance needs this, and I frankly see no reason why they don't already have it. I think Varian's new 'Trials' would be a perfect place to start. I'm not sure what they have in mind, but having players interacting with him in a meaningful way and actually accomplishing something could go a long, long way to improve his image and the image of the Alliance as a whole. However, that would just be the start. We really need to see this with all Alliance leaders, and probably some other 'heroes' as well.

    3. Alliance NPCs need to show more pride.

    Horde NPCs show pride pretty consistently, and I think it really rubs off on the players. You occasionally catch this from Alliance NPCs, but I don't feel it's frequent or zealous enough to make a big difference. Many Alliance races seem mostly concerned with their own faction or their own personal demons, which I feel doesn't really make sense. We should be seeing all races working together on all fronts, and they should all be putting their faith in the Alliance as a whole. I think seeing a Dwarf in Ashenvale fighting and dying to protect his allies could really make players feel a sense of unity.

    4. The Alliance need more in-game victories (even if they're only symbolic).

    The Alliance lost quite a bit in Cataclysm, and even more with the start of Mists of Pandaria. Many will argue that this was just settling the score, or that war isn't fair. While I understand the points behind these arguments, I feel they are ultimately irrelevant. Regardless of rhyme or reason, losing consistently does not feel good, and it does not inspire pride in any sense of the word. It's also a little jarring to do everything right in a quest chain and just be told that you lost after the final quest. It doesn't make for a good story, and it doesn't make for a satisfying game.

    Now, this isn't to say the Alliance didn't have any major victories. The Alliance defeated the Horde army in Ashenvale pretty decisively if my understanding of the events in Wolfheart is correct. However, this wasn't seen by the vast majority of players - which, is really a shame, because I feel like it could have made a difference.

    Once again, I feel like the upcoming Trials are a good place to start. Having Varian win something big over the Horde - even if it has no real bearing on the game - would be great.

    5. Give the Alliance a real battle cry.

    It seems trivial at first, but I believe having a catchphrase can really help. We had one going for a while with 'Glory to the Alliance', but I don't believe Blizzard kept up with it long enough for it to catch up. I propose 'By Blood and Honor' (a fairly common phrase throughout human lore), though I also believe its really irrelevant as long as Blizzard pushes it. Speaking objectively, there's nothing special about 'For the Horde', but it is said frequently enough and with enough fervor to inspire Horde players.

  2. #2
    Field Marshal Lafarce's Avatar
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    @ 5. I've always liked "For King and country!"

    The Alliance have a badass leader in King Varian but it may be weird to say because he is not every alli players king and Stormwind likewise.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Lafarce View Post
    @ 5. I've always liked "For King and country!"
    Naw, I'm sticking with "unleash monkey overdrive". Aa for the rest, our heros are crybabies. We dont need or want more of them.
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  4. #4
    Field Marshal
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    Well written and thought out post, and I completely agree. Riding on zeppelins into TH with Garrosh had an epic feeling to it, even when the convoy crashed onto the shore. The Alliance had Flintlocke, but barely anyone knows Flintlocke and as someone who does I felt they really didn't exploit his character enough to make-up for that disappointing TH entry on the Alliance side.

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral DomesticViolence's Avatar
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    I think the Alliance needs more events where the races are interacting with each other in partnership.

    Elves Dwarves and Humans are iconic. There doesn't have to be anything super complicated. I think more humor is also needed.

    I loved the Dwarf quests in the Twilight Highlands.

    The Alliance should feel like a grand family. Something to contrast the Horde.

  6. #6
    The battle cry is a big one, and so is the symbol. The Horde symbol just looks very unique and recognizable, while the Alliance symbol is a generic lion that you see all the time in medieval and fantasy type settings. Changing the symbol at this point would be weird, though.

  7. #7
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    We need to burn Tarren Mill to the ground and reclaim Gilneas.
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  8. #8
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    I'd propose "Hail to the King, baby!" as a battlecry. Well, maybe without the "baby" part.

    And I completely agree that the Alliance need more interaction within itself, more wholeness - an example of dwarf in Ashenvale is a good one. And more zeal - that's why the good guys in W40k are so awesome. I wanna see worgen commissars!
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    Tirion dissolving the Knights of the Silver Hand to make a neutral faction would have been fine for just Wrath, but the loss of one of the first and greatest Paladins was a heavy one.
    I'm going to nitpick here because people always say this and it makes the lore nerd inside of me rage a little. Tirion was not an Alliance hero who was turned neutral. Tirion's very first appearance was as a neutral quest giver in WPL pre TBC, and he was neutral because he was kicked out of the Alliance and the Knights of the Silver Hand(Uther personally) tried to strip him of his healing powers because he was too good of a human being for their tastes. Ertigg spared his life and nursed him back to health and he was excommunicated from the Paladins and had all his lands and titles stripped and exiled from the Alliance lands when one of his Lieutenant's suspected something when he returned with wounds days after he left to go hunting and followed his tracks to Ertigg, accusing Tirion of "conspiring with the enemy" when he lied about what happened while he was missing for days. All this backstory happened before his very first appearance in any Warcraft game. He was a one shot stand alone character from Chris Metzen's short story "Of Blood and Honor" from 2001 who they thought would make a fitting neutral quest giver as an exiled old hermit in WPL.

    Tirion may be a Human but he was never an Alliance hero(that the players knew). He was neutral from the very first moment he was introduced.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-27 at 05:00 AM ----------

    Also, I imagine they stopped using "Blood and Honor" as a battle cry for the Alliance seeing as it was the official slogan of the Hitler-Jugend and is still the name of a very well known and far reaching White Supremacy group today.
    Last edited by nnelson54; 2012-09-27 at 05:02 AM.

  10. #10
    The alliance first needs to be something to be proud of. Hence your points 1-4 are rather important. 5 battlecry would help, but it might originate naturally from good implementation of 1-4.

  11. #11
    Let me just throw this out there: Who right now is the major "hero" in the Horde? Vol'jin? Playing both sides, the Horde actually feels like playing the "bad guy" much more than it used to in WOTLK to me, at least. On Alliance, I feel more "heroic" generally. Just an observation.

  12. #12
    You bring up some valid points.

    At the same time, I feel kinda bummed on the deal that the Alliance got. All the major lore events, so far, are primarily happening in the novels.
    - The loss of Magni Bronzebeard
    - The founding of the Council of Three Hammers
    - The attempted assassination on Moira
    - Jaina's back story leading up to and after the Rape of Theramore.

    Anything that has real consequence on the Alliance is happening away from the players, and this should change.

    Moreover, the king of the Alliance is not the Warchief in the general sense. There are a lot of formalities and customs and red tape and politics that prevent us from interacting so easily with the King of Stormwind/ High King of the Alliance. You wouldn't have every knight chatting it up with the Queen of England, would you?

    And this is a major problem - the leader of our faction is the main hero of that faction. There's no General or Field Commander that we can fight shoulder to shoulder with. There hasn't been one since.... *queue dramatic music*... since Bolvar Fordragon.

    He was a hero that the Alliance was proud of, a hero that we fought side by side against the Lich King and Onyxia. He was the leader of men, not held back by politics and responsibility, not in the same way that Varian is. Either give the Alliance a hero to replace Bolvar, or elevate a current hero to his status.
    ----------------------------------------
    OR
    ----------------------------------------
    What the Alliance needs is that during the High King scenario, Varian needs to heroically sacrifice his safety and welfare for either us or even better, some Horde.... peasants? children? Someone who the King would understand is innocent of the atrocities of war, but who were put in harm's way by Garrosh and his warmongering.

    Then, Varian would be gravely injured and taken out of the action for a patch or two, but enough so that the Alliance is inspired to end this once and for all, which would lead us to the SIEGE OF OGRIMMAR. We would fight for our valiant king, his noble sacrifice, and all the innocent lives that have been taken in Theramore, in Pandaria, and everywhere that Garrosh has reached his insidious hand.

    For Varian! For Honor! For Justice!
    Last edited by Totle; 2012-09-27 at 05:11 AM.

  13. #13
    Are you kidding me? All this defensiveness over what the Alliance can be is exactly what IS bringing back Alliance pride. All this adversity was intended to do this. Soon, the story will balance out and the Alliance will be stronger for all of this.

    Before Cataclysm, the Alliance was asleep, it was given the royal treatment and came off automatically as the faction with well established roots and ancient history and tradition and nations. But people took it all for granted, meanwhile the Horde had this scrappy underdog vibe going for it, and now they've exploded as a war machine.

    That war machine and the Cataclysm has given more development to the Alliance than anything but Arthas I'd say. We're going to come back with more faction pride and a sense of kinship than we ever had before.
    Last edited by Yig; 2012-09-27 at 05:11 AM.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    I'm going to nitpick here because people always say this and it makes the lore nerd inside of me rage a little. Tirion was not an Alliance hero who was turned neutral. Tirion's very first appearance was as a neutral quest giver in WPL pre TBC, and he was neutral because he was kicked out of the Alliance and the Knights of the Silver Hand(Uther personally) tried to strip him of his healing powers because he was too good of a human being for their tastes. Ertigg spared his life and nursed him back to health and he was excommunicated from the Paladins and had all his lands and titles stripped and exiled from the Alliance lands when one of his Lieutenant's suspected something when he returned with wounds days after he left to go hunting and followed his tracks to Ertigg, accusing Tirion of "conspiring with the enemy" when he lied about what happened while he was missing for days. All this backstory happened before his very first appearance in any Warcraft game. He was a one shot stand alone character from Chris Metzen's short story "Of Blood and Honor" from 2001 who they thought would make a fitting neutral quest giver as an exiled old hermit in WPL.

    Tirion may be a Human but he was never an Alliance hero. He was neutral from the very first moment he was introduced.
    I am well aware of his original quest chain in WoW (having done it on no less than three characters), as well as the lore behind it. Regardless, he was a hero of the Alliance of Lordaeron and promised to reform the Knights of the Silver Hand - an exclusive and iconic Alliance organization.

    And just for clarification, he was removed from the Silver Hand for assaulting Alliance soldiers - there was absolutely no way they could have let him stay after that, regardless of the circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    Also, I imagine they stopped using "Blood and Honor" as a battle cry for the Alliance seeing as it was the official slogan of the Hitler-Jugend and is still the name of a very well known and far reaching White Supremacy group today.
    They never stopped using it. Varian says it to the player as whenever they turn in their Death Knight quest, and it's on the statue of Turalyon in the Valley of Heroes.
    By Blood and Honor We Serve!

  15. #15
    I like, Pride of the Alliance!

    Cus its punny, heheh.


    I doubt Ally will get anything super cool ever. It sucks that horde are getting Thrall back after they mary sue'd him into super hero status. We cant even get our paladin order back at the least.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Totle View Post
    *snip*
    God I miss Bolvar. He was unquestionably our Saurfang.

    Seriously, remember when Onyxia revealed herself and he punched all her guards to death? He had a sword, he just used his fists. That's a hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yig View Post
    Are you kidding me? All this defensiveness over what the Alliance can be is exactly what IS bringing back Alliance pride. All this adversity was intended to do this. Soon, the story will balance out and the Alliance will be stronger for all of this.

    Before Cataclysm, the Alliance was asleep, it was given the royal treatment and came off automatically as the faction with well established roots and ancient history and tradition and nations. But people took it all for granted, meanwhile the Horde had this scrappy underdog vibe going for it, and now they've exploded as a war machine.

    That war machine and the Cataclysm has given more development to the Alliance than anything but Arthas I'd say. We're going to come back with more faction pride and a sense of kinship than we ever had before.
    I like your optimism, but I don't see it happening. I actually know people who have started playing Horde because they were sick of feeling so helpless. That's not good. That's not building pride.
    By Blood and Honor We Serve!

  17. #17
    I do agree that certain characters and races could use a little more prominent profiling, but on the other hand, is it so much different on the Horde side of things? Racial lore is pretty much stagnating because Blizzard tends to spin major lore arcs around a single or only very few major characters.

    I wouldn't want the Alliance to simply mirror the Horde in everything. It's supposed to feel different, otherwise what's the point of having two factions anyway? Some of the things people (and also this thread) criticize about the Alliance are actually things that convinced me about it.

    I don't like the baboonish mannerisms of the Horde. I don't want a battle cry, in fact, if it's possible to spare me of one, I'd be rather grateful. Running around, yelling FOR THE HORDE, that's so ... I don't know. Primitive and embarassing. There's a faction for people who like that kind of mentality.

    I also kind of dislike the zealousness of some Horde players. I'm not a big fan of this whole tribal collective mentality thing. This whole "pride" thing is kind of obnoxious. I'm just not the person who buys into that. I don't want the Alliance to reflect that as a mere mirror image of the Horde. The Alliance is more civilized and less knuckle-dragging than the Horde; individualistic thinking goes hand in hand with that.

    I think people who are envious of the Horde's chest beating habitus and tribal mentality should perhaps just try, uhm, playing Horde. Not everyone likes that typical stuff that defines the Horde. It's important to have factions that feel different and simply aren't 100% mirrored and even on everything. If everyone had everything, everything was completely evenly and "fairly" divided and both factions did exactly the same stuff, but just yelled slogans in a different language, there wouldn't be a point in choosing one of them and engaging in conflict with the other one.
    Last edited by Pull My Finger; 2012-09-27 at 05:30 AM.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHellfire View Post
    I do agree that certain characters and races could use a little more prominent profiling, but on the other hand, is it so much different on the Horde side of things? Racial lore is pretty much stagnating because Blizzard tends to spin major lore arcs around a single or only very few major characters.

    I wouldn't want the Alliance to simply mirror the Horde in everything. It's supposed to feel different, otherwise what's the point of having two factions anyway? Some of the things people (and also this thread) criticize about the Alliance are actually things that convinced me about it.

    I don't like the baboonish mannerisms of the Horde. I don't want a battle cry, in fact, if it's possible to spare me of one, I'd be rather grateful. Running around, yelling FOR THE HORDE, that's so ... I don't know. Primitive and embarassing. There's a faction for people who like that kind of mentality.

    I also kind of dislike the zealousness of some Horde players. I'm not a big fan of this whole tribal collective mentality thing. This whole "pride" thing is kind of obnoxious. I'm just not the person who buys into that. I don't want the Alliance to reflect that as a mere mirror image of the Horde. The Alliance is more civilized and less knuckle-dragging than the Horde; individualistic thinking goes hand in hand with that.

    I think people who are envious of the Horde's chest beating habitus and tribal mentality should perhaps just try, uhm, playing Horde. Not everyone likes that typical stuff that defines the Horde. It's important to have factions that feel different and simply aren't 100% mirrored and even on everything. If everyone had everything, everything was completely evenly and "fairly" divided and both factions did exactly the same stuff, but just yelled slogans in a different language, there wouldn't be a point in choosing one of them and engaging in conflict with the other one.
    While I (believe) I understand what you're saying, I have to wholeheartedly disagree with it. I do not believe faction pride is or should be a defining difference between the two factions. There is not really a niche for the 'apathetic' faction. The difference between factions lies with their ideals, not with their commitment to their ideals.
    By Blood and Honor We Serve!

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    God I miss Bolvar. He was unquestionably our Saurfang.

    Seriously, remember when Onyxia revealed herself and he punched all her guards to death? He had a sword, he just used his fists. That's a hero.



    I like your optimism, but I don't see it happening. I actually know people who have started playing Horde because they were sick of feeling so helpless. That's not good. That's not building pride.
    Those people are revealed for the spineless flip floppers they are. The Alliance had no identity until now. All the races had their own identities, while the Horde had a faction. You're too caught up in the present and can't see the forest through the trees. What exactly do you think is going to happen? You are proposing a cartoonish alternative through implication. As if Blizzard's change in Cataclysm is indicative of a new attitude at Blizzard against the alliance? It's laughable. As if mean old Metzen was just lying about his passion for druids and paladins, and Samwise just pretends to love dwarves, and all this time they've been biding their time to,...

    Nevermind, this stuff is too silly to talk about seriously.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-27 at 02:11 AM ----------

    People need to realize that Blizzard is a small team with a huge fictional universe to cover that is filled with characters, and they work on what get's their juices flowing. As a result, we have to make due with this narrow spot light that only shines on the parts of the story we personally like.

    Just because you don't see your favorite characters or races being given new face time, doesn't mean they are abandoned or changed. When the story only moves every 2 years or so, this is what you get.
    Last edited by Yig; 2012-09-27 at 07:12 AM.
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  20. #20
    What the Alliance needs is more of its races showing up, in the RTS-games, alliance forces were a combination of all its races, each doing what they were good at, but as a combined force, in WoW it's "every race for him/herself" most of the time, and that isn't really very much like an alliance at all TBH, more like "Humans and friends"...

    Secondly, the Alliance needs to actually show the desire to win! This doesn't mean they have to steamroll the horde until nothing remains but a gooey paste and some banners, but they at least have to lose the "Oh that darn horde invaded our lands, let's mop up!"-attitude and think more about what THEY are going to do, the alliance just responds to the horde, which makes them seem wishy-washy and weak.

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