Level 90 Talents... still

[pokeadott]

Now that we have more 90's - is anyone happy with this tier (aside from the really gimmicky applications)?

AV is very underwhelming in it's current incarnation - it's not a pvp deterrent anymore, and it's not a fun button to press.

KC is just bad. The run speed slow is w/e, but the cast time penalty is over the top. 50% cast time on my spells? No thanks, I'll just Fel Flame, etc.

MF... Doesn't work on Howl/SFury/Whiplash, so it's killed for pvp. It pulls the universe, so sort of useless for 5mans/soloing. For the 1 in 20 boss fights where tanks have to spread out adds, I guess it's OK, but otherwise?

[Fwaky]

you should probably look at some other game, nostalgia seems to have gotten the best out o' you

[warex00]

Thinking of it, you kinda got a point. Compared to many other classes. Our 90s talent kinda seems abit lame =/

[sebleb]

Resurrected my old account just to post in this thread.

Our talents aren't interesting. At all. They're borderline useless.

The passive effect of Archimonde's vengeance is the only thing that's ever going to be useful. And how's that for a lvl 90 talent?..

[Ripley6174]

They are both uninteresting and undertuned. Mannoroth's Fury will be pointless outside of one or two fights, Kil'Jaeden's Cunning is just a trap waiting to go off in PvE (you're in the middle of a long cast when suddenly you need to run - oops, forgot to cancel my cast and now I snared myself) and for PvP it sounds better than it is - and it doesn't sound great there to begin with. Archimonde's Vengeance looks like the go to choice for both PvE and PvP and not due its strength, but due to the weakness of the other two.

[Serenia]

Paladin lvl 90 talent kinda sucks imo. I took the falling hammer one (execution sentence if I remember correctly?). It does a small burst but most of the time I forget it is there because 50k dmg per min doesn't sound exciting. Only once did it get interesting that I did 45k burst on Xin the Weaponmaster but haven't happened again.

[sebleb]

I feel incredibly cheated and underprioritized by blizzard for giving us these talents. I have no clue why there isn't more of a uproar from the Warlock community.

Mannoroths fury - Increases the area of your area of effect spells by 500%.

Probably the most unbalanced and poorly worded spells since the first Nether protection. The spell does NOT work on Howl of terror, Shadowfury or Whiplash. All of which are area of effet spells. This talent will be completely useless in almost every aspect of the game except for popping rogues/ferals out of stealth in which it's terribly overpowered.

Kil'Jaedens cunning - You can move while casting for 6 secs at 50% increased casting time. 1 min cd.

Uselessness again. We won't get very far in 6 seconds considering we're almost always slowed in arenas. 6 seconds isn't more than 2 or maybe 3 spells anyway. And that's not even mentioning that it actually reduces our damage whilst active.

Archimondes vengeance. Active: Reflects 25% of all dmg you recieve unto the target for 8 sec. 2 min CD. Passive: Reflect 5% dmg.

This is probably the most promising of the three. However I feel that the active effect is way too short. If you get a chance to do damage as a Warlock in PvP, chances are your enemy isn't doing damage to you. Or not in full scale anyway. 25% reflect while you're stunned is useless damage. 5% passive reflect won't serve as anything other than a complete CC immunity for the other team.

Blinded by a Rogue? Good thing you put up a DoT on the lock so you'll get hit by the 100-damage reflect and instantly break CC.

[DemoBytom]

Mannoroths fury - Increases the area of your area of effect spells by 500%.

Probably the most unbalanced and poorly worded spells since the first Nether protection. The spell does NOT work on Howl of terror, Shadowfury or Whiplash. All of which are area of effet spells. This talent will be completely useless in almost every aspect of the game except for popping rogues/ferals out of stealth in which it's terribly overpowered.

Aren't it good for destruction for stunning with rain of fire (or they nerfed it?).. RoF stuns if you get hit by it three times, and with 500% range it's quite hard to get out in time..

[warex00]

Aren't it good for destruction for stunning with rain of fire (or they nerfed it?).. RoF stuns if you get hit by it three times, and with 500% range it's quite hard to get out in time..

A you point have

[Moggie]

Hehe. People didn't believe the beta testers when they said you could not pick a lvl 90 talent and not even notice anything missing.

[pokeadott]

Hehe. People didn't believe the beta testers when they said you could not pick a lvl 90 talent and not even notice anything missing.

Nope, I believed it. I just figured since all the pre-90 posts fell on deaf ears, I'd start up the post-90 version.

They really are unnoticeable and/or awful though. It's really unfortunate they stuck to their guns on these. While it wouldn't fix anything with the 90 tier, it would make it *slightly* more palatable if our lvl 87 spell wasn't also obscenely situational in its uses.

My guild vent on launch day - "ooh! I can use Alter Time now!", "fuck yeah! Avatar time!", etc etc etc. Me 2 hours after hitting 90 on launch day - "oh, I guess I should put my gateway on my bars and get around to picking a level 90 talent."

[Niberion]

Aren't it good for destruction for stunning with rain of fire (or they nerfed it?).. RoF stuns if you get hit by it three times, and with 500% range it's quite hard to get out in time..

The 500% increase is actually a lot smaller than you think due the terrible wording they use.

[smegdawg]

I know no one is going to like this argument, but think of it this way.

All three of our specs got a major overhaul. Including new spells, Resources, Rotations, and fun things to do. I'll Admit the level 90 talents are a bit lackluster in all situations. But you gotta think of it in a different light. You shouldn't be comparing it to the other classes one or two new buttons. You should be thinking that rather then getting a new fancy car stereo, you got an overhauled engine that revs so loud you can't hear the crappy stereo you got from your brother.

[Phoenexis]

I know no one is going to like this argument, but think of it this way.

All three of our specs got a major overhaul. Including new spells, Resources, Rotations, and fun things to do. I'll Admit the level 90 talents are a bit lackluster in all situations. But you gotta think of it in a different light. You shouldn't be comparing it to the other classes one or two new buttons. You should be thinking that rather then getting a new fancy car stereo, you got an overhauled engine that revs so loud you can't hear the crappy stereo you got from your brother.

I think it's a matter of efficiency, not flavor or innovation. They suck when compared to other talents, and we're already behind other casters in many different aspects.

[pokeadott]

I know no one is going to like this argument, but think of it this way.

All three of our specs got a major overhaul. Including new spells, Resources, Rotations, and fun things to do. I'll Admit the level 90 talents are a bit lackluster in all situations. But you gotta think of it in a different light. You shouldn't be comparing it to the other classes one or two new buttons. You should be thinking that rather then getting a new fancy car stereo, you got an overhauled engine that revs so loud you can't hear the crappy stereo you got from your brother.

But everyone looks at the bottom of a talent tree and expects awesomeness. This is the way that every video game ever has worked. We want that last row to be amazing. Not only is our not amazing, but it's barely noticeable. We could all roll with 5 talent points instead of 6 and see zero impact on our pve or pvp gameplay. That's nuts.

[smegdawg]

I think it's a matter of efficiency, not flavor or innovation. They suck when compared to other talents, and we're already behind other casters in many different aspects.

If the other you mention is the our other 1-5 tiers or if the other is the other classes 90 talents, either way you cannot compare them. The talents are balance(read compared) to only the other two in the same Tier. And my understanding is that it has to be at least partly about flavor and innovation. Efficiency plays a part in it, but without the other two, must have talents will exist!

Again, remember I am not entirely happy with the talents either, but people need to stop just outright bitching and just enjoy all the other aspects of our class. And if you feel the need to bitch, do it constructively, give some balanced changes or ideas.

@Pokedott - Wouldn't be the first time Blizzard as gone against the flow.

[juvik85]

archimonde for both pvp/pve since its a dps increase... Also, the passiv skill you get at 90 is useless for destro in pvp, the increase duration on dot is useless for destro pvp. There is almost no reason to cast immolate in pvp... I think they still got some work to do regarding lvl 90 for warlock. Lvl 90 skills/ability's should more awesome. Its my opinion atleast, lvl 90 stuff is meh.. ;(

[Lucidious]

To be honest with how lackluster demonic gateway is because of placement issues and despawns as well as arguably the worst level 90 talents in game things looked alot better at 85 then they do at 90 for warlocks. There is just no shiny fun to be had. I thought gateway would be cooler but I can barely put the thing anywhere on top of the fact that if I barely walk off what seems like barely anywhere it despawns. I literally have to camp the thing to even make any use out of it. HIGHLY dissapointing!!! And as far as the 90 abilities go, well pandemic is worthless for destro "which always seems to get the short end of the stick" and literally NONE of the talents are worth a damn so I just picked AV by default. I think that 90 talent tier could have easily been used to give the class the tools to fix the holes in the specs "defense,mobility,cc" and it's a damn shame that it didn't work out that way

[Playintrafic]

At least you don't main a DK. All 3 our 90 talents are 100% useless. The first one seemed like it might be useful as blood, but I have tanked ever heroic now without using it once.

[Imnick]

They should have made this tier the one we had access to at 85 and the Demon tier the one we got at 90, it would have made people playing at 85 sad but it would have been far "shinier"