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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    Exactly my point!
    Call of the elements is by far better than any of our level 90 abilities. Refresh on all of your totems with a cooldown less than 5 minutes, who wouldn't want that, especially with shaman's new totem model?
    Melee vs caster balance in WoD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9F0Ehgx_Q8

  2. #142
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Not all your totems, only your useless-to-pve totems with a cooldown less than 3 minutes


    Mages complain about their level 90 talents, Death Knights complain about their level 90 talents, Druids Complain about their level 90 talents, Hunters complain about their level 90 talents,.... etc. on and on, i just so sick and bored of players whining about what is in essence really great talent system.

    Warlocks are freaking awesome right now, and their level 90 talents, all three of them are useful in both pve and pvp, that is perfectly satisfactory to me. and way better than many other classes.
    Last edited by Grubjuice; 2012-10-08 at 04:46 PM.

  3. #143
    I'm changing glyphs more than talents...I see a broken system because of that. Merge glyph and talents, almost all of the talents are either old glyphs remade into talents or talents that are simply better than the other ones.

    The only difference I can see between glyphs and talents atm is the reagant needed to remove either one.

  4. #144
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    yeah glyphs and talents are basically the same thing now.

  5. #145
    No, they aren't, not by a long shot. Our level 90 talents however, are weak enough that they might as well be glyphs.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    Not all your totems, only your useless-to-pve totems with a cooldown less than 3 minutes


    Mages complain about their level 90 talents, Death Knights complain about their level 90 talents, Druids Complain about their level 90 talents, Hunters complain about their level 90 talents,.... etc. on and on, i just so sick and bored of players whining about what is in essence really great talent system.

    Warlocks are freaking awesome right now, and their level 90 talents, all three of them are useful in both pve and pvp, that is perfectly satisfactory to me. and way better than many other classes.
    Having a tier of PvE only talents or PvP only talents is something people are welcome to complain about. But at least those talents are useful somewhere. I'm not going to continue to give examples of awesome talents in the tiers you mention, but they are there.

    You're missing the point here - our talents are not just good in pvp or just good as this spec or w/e. Our 90 tier talents have almost no impact on any form of raiding or arena (sorry - but every tier should offer at least one talent that does *something* measurable in pvp or pve). You can love locks all you like, but our lvl 90 tier is basically a throw-away.

    The people comparing our 90 tier to glyphs is pretty much spot on. If the lvl 90 tier was replaced with 'Your Conflag no longer requires Immo to snare the target', 'Your CoEx now slows the target by 70% but has a 10sec CD', and 'Your Hand now snares the target but no longer has charges' - I would be happier with it. At least it would mean I could take the demo circle glyph for Aff pvp. When I'm considering trading my lvl 90 talent for 4 sec off the CD of my demonic teleport spell something is wrong.

  7. #147
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    But they do have an impact.

    You can finish that Chaos Bolt/soul fire into which you've already invested 2 seconds of casting even if you have to move to avoid ground fire.
    your Hellfire can reach targets 20 yards away, you only need to cast Rain of Fire once to hit all Targets in the entire field of play.
    you AV damage is right up there on recount to quantitatively measure.

    Why do you insist they have no impact?

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by pokeadott View Post
    The people comparing our 90 tier to glyphs is pretty much spot on. If the lvl 90 tier was replaced with 'Your Conflag no longer requires Immo to snare the target', 'Your CoEx now slows the target by 70% but has a 10sec CD', and 'Your Hand now snares the target but no longer has charges' - I would be happier with it. At least it would mean I could take the demo circle glyph for Aff pvp. When I'm considering trading my lvl 90 talent for 4 sec off the CD of my demonic teleport spell something is wrong.
    Yeah I'd take that too. I'd also take KjC if I didn't have to go through the trouble of stopcasting every single spell. It's really not worth it. 2 casts every 1 min on the move for an eternity of clunky gameplay isn't worth it at all.

    Also, how is getting a refresh on capacitator, grounding, tremor, earthgrab and healing stream useless? Sure it's no Spirit Link or Healing Tide Totem, but they're great. Much better than any of our level 90 talents.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-08 at 07:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    But they do have an impact.

    You can finish that Chaos Bolt/soul fire into which you've already invested 2 seconds of casting even if you have to move to avoid ground fire.
    your Hellfire can reach targets 20 yards away, you only need to cast Rain of Fire once to hit all Targets in the entire field of play.
    you AV damage is right up there on recount to quantitatively measure.

    Why do you insist they have no impact?
    Except,
    -You'll spend your time stopcasting every single spell you want to use when you want to move
    -You'll end up pulling mobs by mistake and breaking CC

    Yeah, AV is "good" for top raiders that want the extra DPS. But if we want extra DPS, there are much better ways to make it effective in both PvP and PvE. There's a reason for which AV reflects damage taken.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-08 at 07:26 PM ----------

    In the end, everything is relative. Relatively, our level 90 talents are extremely underwhelming, especially for PvP.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-08 at 07:27 PM ----------

    Oh and Totemic Projection is awesome for Capacitator and Spirit Link in PvP.
    Melee vs caster balance in WoD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9F0Ehgx_Q8

  9. #149
    Pit Lord Slavemaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    The 500% increase is actually a lot smaller than you think due the terrible wording they use.
    Lets say Rain of Fire is a 10 yard range (I forget the number) 500% of that just makes it 60 yards, that is quite a lot and I'm not sure what you expect from it.

    Also to be fair about Whiplash, it says "YOUR area of effect spells", but Howl of Terror and Shadowfury, I assume those are not effected for balance reasons, fearing things in close range is the point of it and aoe fearing things 40+ yards away? Don't you think that would be a bit broken? Or stunning everything within the same radius, it's there for balancing purposes I can almost guarantee, watching warlocks PvP in arena's and such with that would not be skillful and it certainly would not be fun to watch.

    That is almost certainly the reasoning behind those three spells.

  10. #150
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slavemaker View Post
    Lets say Rain of Fire is a 10 yard range (I forget the number) 500% of that just makes it 60 yards, that is quite a lot and I'm not sure what you expect from it.
    it' does not increase the radius by 500% it increases the area by 500%. a 500% incease in AREA is only a 144% increase in radius
    (√[100%+500%] - 100% = 144%) .

    A=πr^2 , remember?

    RoF will go from an 8 yard radius circle to a 19.59 yard radius circle.
    Last edited by Grubjuice; 2012-10-08 at 08:02 PM.

  11. #151
    Pit Lord Slavemaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    it' does not increase the radius by 500% it increases the area by 500%. a 500% incease in AREA is only a 1.44% increase in radius
    (√[100%+500%] - 100% = 144%) .

    A=πr^2 , remember?

    RoF will go from an 8 yard radius circle to a 19.59 yard radius circle.
    That's what I meant but I was thinking incorrectly =\.

  12. #152
    I have to take back what i said about MF.

    I decided to stick with it awhile and see what it could do. There have been a very few instances where the sheer size kept me from using any AOE, but overall, if your careful where you place it it doesnt limit you and the extra area really is pretty amazing on RoF. i cant spend burning embers fast enough at times. I wish it affected eveyrthing like it claims but its still pretty fun.

  13. #153
    Brewmaster Shon237's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moggie View Post
    Hehe. People didn't believe the beta testers when they said you could not pick a lvl 90 talent and not even notice anything missing.
    Yeah I just reached 90 and have stuck with Archimondes vengence even for destro but honeslty if I didnt have any of these talents would it frikin matter? Sad I mean level 90 talent and its so weak. I thougth the great thing about hittin your max level in any game/expansion is to have a great new spell (even tho demonic circle was weak, so maybe my theory is not a good one).

  14. #154
    Demonic gateway would be a pretty damn cool new spell if its pathing wasnt so restrictive. I want it to work to cross chasms or even bypass a bit of trash every now and then, not be game breaking. If i can see a spot and get a green circle i should be able to place the destination portal.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Shodan30 View Post
    Demonic gateway would be a pretty damn cool new spell if its pathing wasnt so restrictive. I want it to work to cross chasms or even bypass a bit of trash every now and then, not be game breaking. If i can see a spot and get a green circle i should be able to place the destination portal.
    What's even worse than that is the despawn range, which, IMO, makes the spell largely useless.

    I will burn your soul.

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