Page 12 of 18 FirstFirst ...
2
10
11
12
13
14
... LastLast
  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Eironn View Post
    Just ignore draco hunters aren't in a good place right now there damage is lacking compared to other classes and there rotations are awful
    Yea its really a shame watching so many hunters not being able to perform at the same level as when you just had 2 buttons to press.


    im with draco exept buff mm bitches.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrven View Post
    If by most ppl you mean about 4% of the player base then yeah most will. Wowprogress wont load up for some reason but on guildox only 80 guilds world wide have cleared in 10 or 25. Just undeer 3 million MoP accounts right now. You don't even have to do math to realize that is way the hell off from most, very little should be the phrase being used.

    Wowprogress finally loaded up they have it at 146 guilds world wide in a mix of 10 and 25 that is still a drop in the bucket nothing more.
    The majority of guilds (hint - why do you think Method, Envy, For the Horde, Apex and the like aren't 6/6 yet?) are farming the trash up to Elegon for 489 trinkets for next week. Expect the number to go up to a thousand before the week is over.

  3. #223
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    3,629
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Normal modes are easily cleared this week (we had: 2 wipes on quilens, 10 on feng, 2 on Spiritdoctorthingie, 4 on the four kings, 7 on elegon, and 5 on the emperor's will. It took us two evenings without any PTR experience to clear it), so most people should have access to heroic modes next week. With 9 coins .
    It's highly unlikely that you'll be killing more than 2 bosses on the first week of Heroic modes, with not even close to being full epic geared. Gara'jal will be your first wall, he requires some really steep DPS to keep the spirits in control and have enough DPS for boss

  4. #224
    Imo hunters are fine, in heroics I am bursting up to 140k DPS on bosses and by the end i am around 80-90K mostly, which seems very good right now.

    I am top mostly but I haven't raided yet so couldn't say how good we perform in raids !

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    The majority of guilds (hint - why do you think Method, Envy, For the Horde, Apex and the like aren't 6/6 yet?) are farming the trash up to Elegon for 489 trinkets for next week. Expect the number to go up to a thousand before the week is over.
    Even if every single guild that is currently 4/6 cleared this week that would be about 2/5 of the ppl that have killed a boss not to mention all the runs that havent killed anything yet. Where I am from most doest mean the minority.

    This is spiraling away from hunter stuff so its time to walk away and move on.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
    "Not everything on the internet is true." -- Abraham Lincoln
    Good is the enemy of great.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrven View Post
    Even if every single guild that is currently 4/6 cleared this week that would be about 2/5 of the ppl that have killed a boss not to mention all the runs that havent killed anything yet. Where I am from most doest mean the minority.

    This is spiraling away from hunter stuff so its time to walk away and move on.
    Then they're not actually raiders that are supposed to kill stuff without a buff/nerf in place, and not really the target demographic for anything discussed here . In any case, I'm not sure how much relevance this has to anything. What you do with your coins is up to you, but I'm obviously going to keep mine for the strongest gear that'll let me progress in the "harder" instances that are released in a month - if you want to spend yours on normal modes, etc, feel free to do so. I don't know how many HC's we'll get down next week, but as long as I'm not *losing out* on coins, I can always use them on bosses we down on normal on tuesday (such as will of the emperor for the weapon or elegon for the trinket), rather than spending them ASAP and not have any for my heroic kills .

    So yea, as you said, better get back on topic.

  7. #227
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    3,629
    Praise the lord. Living in a low pop server has it's downsides .... Finally got my Tiger's Deck assembled <3... Waiting for Sunday to see the DPS increase

  8. #228
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Brawl Pub
    Posts
    4,099
    I need that fucking Tiger deck. And I need to get ready for tonight. Tonight's our first night of raiding.

    Anyways, Draco, you implied that if you weren't raid leading you'd be AMoC instead of LR, right?

    I also see you're using DB instead of TotH. Is that a matter of preference for you, or what? I've been experimenting with the two and DB seems to fit SV's rotation fairly well since it's no-cost and not random and a long(er) CD at 30s. TotH is so random that it's pushing other abilities when I feel like I *have to* consume TotH procs lest I miss some stacks. Obviously I'd run TotH for AoE fights (probably Gara'jel and Stone Guards and def Will) but what're your thoughts on single target SV DB vs. TotH? I'm looking for any excuse to drop the RNG of TotH.

  9. #229
    I switched to Survival with DB/LR from BM. I lost 500-1000ish DPS doing so, but gained so much raid awareness that it almost seems silly to be BM for heroic modes. You literally cannot watch your surroundings as BM. Your eyes are glued to your action bars or your cooldown timer mod. It is the definition of tunnel vision.

    As for DB/LR, I like them because they do very little to complicate the rotation. TotH is amazing for trash and AoE bosses (Gara'jal spirit realm weeeee!) but I dislike it for single target. Lynx Rush vs aMoC is preference as well ,the two sim very close to one another. I like LR because aMoC is so clunky to use with a 60 focus cost.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I need that fucking Tiger deck. And I need to get ready for tonight. Tonight's our first night of raiding.

    Anyways, Draco, you implied that if you weren't raid leading you'd be AMoC instead of LR, right?

    I also see you're using DB instead of TotH. Is that a matter of preference for you, or what? I've been experimenting with the two and DB seems to fit SV's rotation fairly well since it's no-cost and not random and a long(er) CD at 30s. TotH is so random that it's pushing other abilities when I feel like I *have to* consume TotH procs lest I miss some stacks. Obviously I'd run TotH for AoE fights (probably Gara'jel and Stone Guards and def Will) but what're your thoughts on single target SV DB vs. TotH? I'm looking for any excuse to drop the RNG of TotH.
    I probably would, yea, but there's enough to keep track of as-is, and you can't really say I'm underperforming =P.

    Dire beast is ~1.5K dps stronger than Thrill of the hunt on a single target - however, Thrill of the Hunt will be better in any scenario involving AOE, and something people oftenly forget, *burst damage*. Getting to fire 10 shots in a row on the sparks on Elegon is *incredible* compared to getting to summon a dire beast that gives a minor dot and focus regen. Which means, once again, it's entirely optional and fight dependant - out of the fights we have in MSV, I'd probably use Toth on quilens, Spiritmaster (add-burst and aoe if they're clumped), Elegon, and will of the emperor. Dire beast on Feng and four kings (both mainly singletarget fights with no burst dps requirement).
    An important thing to remember is that toth procs does NOT take priority over your other abilities - you simply keep focus for your next explo/glaive/black arrow, and spam arcane where you'd have used cobra with it.

  11. #231
    What is your current AoE rotation guys? I personally use Explosive Trap followed by LnL>GT>Multi (I don't hit ES on CD), and switch to a single target rotation when it comes down to 2 targets.

    I recognize that this is only useful in dungeons, but hey, got to top dps meters there too

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by gulder View Post
    What is your current AoE rotation guys? I personally use Explosive Trap followed by LnL>GT>Multi (I don't hit ES on CD), and switch to a single target rotation when it comes down to 2 targets.

    I recognize that this is only useful in dungeons, but hey, got to top dps meters there too
    I tend not to think about it much, but I prioritize Multishot over EVERYTHING, I throw down a Explosion Trap before I get my button smash on though. I forget about glaive sometimes but I try not to use it unless I'm in a good spot.
    Omnipotent WCL || Omnipotent Site || Stream: 5-9pm PST Tues/Wed/Thurs || Worst Btag Ever: Slenderman#1355

  13. #233
    I wanted to wait to chime in here until my guild was mainly 463 and we were in raids where DPS actually mattered.

    Now the good thing is we do pretty good single target, stand still dps. But the problem is when we have to swap targets, or there is any sort of movement with our pets. BM suffers greatly. Sure you can grab blink strike to swap, but the main problem generally stems from the lack of focus. BM hunters on Elegon are generally ranking because they stay on the boss with minimal pet swapping. Whereas the BM hunter that has to swap will only see 80-90k rather than the 100k+.

    I really don't think we're lacking in the DPS dept but I think we really need charge on our pets flat out (yes I know KC charges), or some better way for our pets to swap targets. Blink strike does not work that great. When you get Blink Strike you have to use it on CD to be comparable to other DPS classes, but the problem is if you start using it on CD, you can't use it when you need it. So no matter what we really suffer on fights like Elegon compared to other range classes. Edit: I know there are hunters pulling decent numbers, and they are usually parked on the boss. Most hunters in 10 and even 25 have to swap.

    ToTH is almost becoming mandatory. On paper Dire Beast does ok, but we really need the spamable shots for example: busting down courage, busting down orbs on elegon, busting spirits, etc. The problem with Dire Beast is that it must 100% be used on CD to be comparable with other DPS classes. If we start saving it we fall behind.

    So overall we're not really lacking in the DPS area, but more so in the mechanic area. Pets do not work well on fights where we have to swap. And this goes for BM and Surv. I feel like we need more passive focus regen and lose some on cobra shot because of high movement on fights.

    Now the sad part, and you will notice this if you look at logs but 10 man groups are slowly becoming: Ele Sham, Mage, SPriest, Warlock, Moonkin + Healers/Tanks. Why is this? Melee dps sucks. Hunters are part melee dps. Dot classes are extremely strong.


    TLDR
    Hunters need a better way for pets to move from target to target without blink strike.
    Hunters need more focus regen, but lose some on cobra shot.
    Hunters and Melee need more Attack power from buffs.
    Last edited by Libertarian; 2012-10-06 at 05:40 PM.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    I wanted to wait to chime in here until my guild was mainly 463 and we were in raids where DPS actually mattered.

    Now the good thing is we do pretty good single target, stand still dps. But the problem is when we have to swap targets, or there is any sort of movement with our pets. BM suffers greatly. Sure you can grab blink strike to swap, but the main problem generally stems from the lack of focus. BM hunters on Elegon are generally ranking because they stay on the boss with minimal pet swapping. Whereas the BM hunter that has to swap will only see 80-90k rather than the 100k+.

    I really don't think we're lacking in the DPS dept but I think we really need charge on our pets flat out (yes I know KC charges), or some better way for our pets to swap targets. Blink strike does not work that great. When you get Blink Strike you have to use it on CD to be comparable to other DPS classes, but the problem is if you start using it on CD, you can't use it when you need it. So no matter what we really suffer on fights like Elegon compared to other range classes. Edit: I know there are hunters pulling decent numbers, and they are usually parked on the boss. Most hunters in 10 and even 25 have to swap.

    ToTH is almost becoming mandatory. On paper Dire Beast does ok, but we really need the spamable shots for example: busting down courage, busting down orbs on elegon, busting spirits, etc. The problem with Dire Beast is that it must 100% be used on CD to be comparable with other DPS classes. If we start saving it we fall behind.

    So overall we're not really lacking in the DPS area, but more so in the mechanic area. Pets do not work well on fights where we have to swap. And this goes for BM and Surv. I feel like we need more passive focus regen and lose some on cobra shot because of high movement on fights.

    Now the sad part, and you will notice this if you look at logs but 10 man groups are slowly becoming: Ele Sham, Mage, SPriest, Warlock, Moonkin + Healers/Tanks. Why is this? Melee dps sucks. Hunters are part melee dps. Dot classes are extremely strong.


    TLDR
    Hunters need a better way for pets to move from target to target without blink strike.
    Hunters need more focus regen, but lose some on cobra shot.
    Hunters and Melee need more Attack power from buffs.
    As BM on multi-target fights, you should set your pet to attack 1 target. Then you dps the other targets yourself. It's not possible to maximise dps at all as BM if your pet has to run around constantly. If there are two targets that need burning down, leave your pet on the one which is going to be alive the longest, unless you absolutely can't (say due to percentile phase shifts and the like) and hit the other one with everything else.

  15. #235
    Libertarian - your main issue would be that you're playing BM, though. Hunters do fine in a magic-class setup (ele sham, mage spriest, warlock, moonkin) *if they're survival*, because the majority of our damage is magic based. The only buffs we'd be missing from a "normal" balanced caster setup would be 4% phys dmg and 10% attack speed - and we can provide 10% haste on our own.
    BM is also very limited in terms of target switching (as you said), while Surv doesn't suffer nearly as bad.
    A good example would be Kripparrian being nr 1 BM hunter on Elegon with 127K dps - however, Kennyloggins, who was about 7K behind him in the same log, as surv, did *three* times as much damage to the celestial protector as kripp, and 2M more on the energy charges (these, by the way, are the main point of the entire fight to get down, and they have 1.5M health per. 4M dmg vs 6M dmg means that it's one entire spark, and the majority of a second that Kenny killed, ON HIS OWN, more than Kripp).

    Basicly, what I'm saying here is, Kripp did 6-7K more dps, but Kenny actually performed in every area that the raid needed to succeed, while Kripp was *far* behind. Of course, I'm not sure if this was part of the guild's tactic (to let a few specific people singletarget the boss for extra dmg to reach enrage), but they beat the enrage by more than 15 seconds, so I really can't imagine that was neccessary.
    The conclusion? Surv is far superior for anything that isn't mindless tunnelvision on a boss.

  16. #236
    Stood in the Fire Rife's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    476
    Keep fighting the good fight Draco.

    Too many derps around here have no idea what you're saying but complain anyway.

    Stream | Youtube
    Latest Video: Heroic Iron Qon

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    I probably would, yea, but there's enough to keep track of as-is, and you can't really say I'm underperforming =P.

    Dire beast is ~1.5K dps stronger than Thrill of the hunt on a single target - however, Thrill of the Hunt will be better in any scenario involving AOE, and something people oftenly forget, *burst damage*. Getting to fire 10 shots in a row on the sparks on Elegon is *incredible* compared to getting to summon a dire beast that gives a minor dot and focus regen. Which means, once again, it's entirely optional and fight dependant - out of the fights we have in MSV, I'd probably use Toth on quilens, Spiritmaster (add-burst and aoe if they're clumped), Elegon, and will of the emperor. Dire beast on Feng and four kings (both mainly singletarget fights with no burst dps requirement).
    An important thing to remember is that toth procs does NOT take priority over your other abilities - you simply keep focus for your next explo/glaive/black arrow, and spam arcane where you'd have used cobra with it.
    I disagree about Feng HC, that additional phase with adds will require some huge burst/aoe.

  18. #238
    Field Marshal DekyD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    57
    I'm a BM hunter.
    I was thinking on the same thing as DracoDraco, I have no issues in hc dungeons and my gear is BiS pre-raiding while the ones I play with also have BiS pre-raiding, and I still top the dps meter.
    I'm pulling around 128k Burst on bosses and then it goes down to around 70k dps and I still top the dps meter, only class I've seen that can top me is a elemental shaman.

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ekyla/advanced

    Y u heff to sank the worlds wolf?

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremypwnz View Post
    I tend not to think about it much, but I prioritize Multishot over EVERYTHING, I throw down a Explosion Trap before I get my button smash on though. I forget about glaive sometimes but I try not to use it unless I'm in a good spot.
    I've tried running a Multi only rotation, but including GT is really a huge dps boost. I'm just not sure about DB and LnL though.

    Btw, Draco, I'm curious as to why you yourself did only 100k on Elegon. I'm sure you have your reasons, I'd just like to know what they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by DekyD View Post
    I'm a BM hunter.
    I was thinking on the same thing as DracoDraco, I have no issues in hc dungeons and my gear is BiS pre-raiding while the ones I play with also have BiS pre-raiding, and I still top the dps meter.
    I'm pulling around 128k Burst on bosses and then it goes down to around 70k dps and I still top the dps meter, only class I've seen that can top me is a elemental shaman.

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ekyla/advanced
    That's.... really not what Draco's point is but okay I guess.

  20. #240
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    3,629
    Quote Originally Posted by gulder View Post
    I've tried running a Multi only rotation, but including GT is really a huge dps boost. I'm just not sure about DB and LnL though.

    Btw, Draco, I'm curious as to why you yourself did only 100k on Elegon. I'm sure you have your reasons, I'd just like to know what they are.



    That's.... really not what Draco's point is but okay I guess.
    GT requires good positioning so you get the most out of the cleave it has.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •