Imo hunters are fine, in heroics I am bursting up to 140k DPS on bosses and by the end i am around 80-90K mostly, which seems very good right now.
I am top mostly but I haven't raided yet so couldn't say how good we perform in raids !
This is spiraling away from hunter stuff so its time to walk away and move on.
Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
"Not everything on the internet is true." -- Abraham Lincoln
Good is the enemy of great.
So yea, as you said, better get back on topic.
Praise the lord. Living in a low pop server has it's downsides .... Finally got my Tiger's Deck assembled <3... Waiting for Sunday to see the DPS increase
I need that fucking Tiger deck. And I need to get ready for tonight. Tonight's our first night of raiding.
Anyways, Draco, you implied that if you weren't raid leading you'd be AMoC instead of LR, right?
I also see you're using DB instead of TotH. Is that a matter of preference for you, or what? I've been experimenting with the two and DB seems to fit SV's rotation fairly well since it's no-cost and not random and a long(er) CD at 30s. TotH is so random that it's pushing other abilities when I feel like I *have to* consume TotH procs lest I miss some stacks. Obviously I'd run TotH for AoE fights (probably Gara'jel and Stone Guards and def Will) but what're your thoughts on single target SV DB vs. TotH? I'm looking for any excuse to drop the RNG of TotH.
I switched to Survival with DB/LR from BM. I lost 500-1000ish DPS doing so, but gained so much raid awareness that it almost seems silly to be BM for heroic modes. You literally cannot watch your surroundings as BM. Your eyes are glued to your action bars or your cooldown timer mod. It is the definition of tunnel vision.
As for DB/LR, I like them because they do very little to complicate the rotation. TotH is amazing for trash and AoE bosses (Gara'jal spirit realm weeeee!) but I dislike it for single target. Lynx Rush vs aMoC is preference as well ,the two sim very close to one another. I like LR because aMoC is so clunky to use with a 60 focus cost.
Dire beast is ~1.5K dps stronger than Thrill of the hunt on a single target - however, Thrill of the Hunt will be better in any scenario involving AOE, and something people oftenly forget, *burst damage*. Getting to fire 10 shots in a row on the sparks on Elegon is *incredible* compared to getting to summon a dire beast that gives a minor dot and focus regen. Which means, once again, it's entirely optional and fight dependant - out of the fights we have in MSV, I'd probably use Toth on quilens, Spiritmaster (add-burst and aoe if they're clumped), Elegon, and will of the emperor. Dire beast on Feng and four kings (both mainly singletarget fights with no burst dps requirement).
An important thing to remember is that toth procs does NOT take priority over your other abilities - you simply keep focus for your next explo/glaive/black arrow, and spam arcane where you'd have used cobra with it.
What is your current AoE rotation guys? I personally use Explosive Trap followed by LnL>GT>Multi (I don't hit ES on CD), and switch to a single target rotation when it comes down to 2 targets.
I recognize that this is only useful in dungeons, but hey, got to top dps meters there too
I wanted to wait to chime in here until my guild was mainly 463 and we were in raids where DPS actually mattered.
Now the good thing is we do pretty good single target, stand still dps. But the problem is when we have to swap targets, or there is any sort of movement with our pets. BM suffers greatly. Sure you can grab blink strike to swap, but the main problem generally stems from the lack of focus. BM hunters on Elegon are generally ranking because they stay on the boss with minimal pet swapping. Whereas the BM hunter that has to swap will only see 80-90k rather than the 100k+.
I really don't think we're lacking in the DPS dept but I think we really need charge on our pets flat out (yes I know KC charges), or some better way for our pets to swap targets. Blink strike does not work that great. When you get Blink Strike you have to use it on CD to be comparable to other DPS classes, but the problem is if you start using it on CD, you can't use it when you need it. So no matter what we really suffer on fights like Elegon compared to other range classes. Edit: I know there are hunters pulling decent numbers, and they are usually parked on the boss. Most hunters in 10 and even 25 have to swap.
ToTH is almost becoming mandatory. On paper Dire Beast does ok, but we really need the spamable shots for example: busting down courage, busting down orbs on elegon, busting spirits, etc. The problem with Dire Beast is that it must 100% be used on CD to be comparable with other DPS classes. If we start saving it we fall behind.
So overall we're not really lacking in the DPS area, but more so in the mechanic area. Pets do not work well on fights where we have to swap. And this goes for BM and Surv. I feel like we need more passive focus regen and lose some on cobra shot because of high movement on fights.
Now the sad part, and you will notice this if you look at logs but 10 man groups are slowly becoming: Ele Sham, Mage, SPriest, Warlock, Moonkin + Healers/Tanks. Why is this? Melee dps sucks. Hunters are part melee dps. Dot classes are extremely strong.
Hunters need a better way for pets to move from target to target without blink strike.
Hunters need more focus regen, but lose some on cobra shot.
Hunters and Melee need more Attack power from buffs.
Last edited by Libertarian; 2012-10-06 at 05:40 PM.
Libertarian - your main issue would be that you're playing BM, though. Hunters do fine in a magic-class setup (ele sham, mage spriest, warlock, moonkin) *if they're survival*, because the majority of our damage is magic based. The only buffs we'd be missing from a "normal" balanced caster setup would be 4% phys dmg and 10% attack speed - and we can provide 10% haste on our own.
BM is also very limited in terms of target switching (as you said), while Surv doesn't suffer nearly as bad.
A good example would be Kripparrian being nr 1 BM hunter on Elegon with 127K dps - however, Kennyloggins, who was about 7K behind him in the same log, as surv, did *three* times as much damage to the celestial protector as kripp, and 2M more on the energy charges (these, by the way, are the main point of the entire fight to get down, and they have 1.5M health per. 4M dmg vs 6M dmg means that it's one entire spark, and the majority of a second that Kenny killed, ON HIS OWN, more than Kripp).
Basicly, what I'm saying here is, Kripp did 6-7K more dps, but Kenny actually performed in every area that the raid needed to succeed, while Kripp was *far* behind. Of course, I'm not sure if this was part of the guild's tactic (to let a few specific people singletarget the boss for extra dmg to reach enrage), but they beat the enrage by more than 15 seconds, so I really can't imagine that was neccessary.
The conclusion? Surv is far superior for anything that isn't mindless tunnelvision on a boss.
Keep fighting the good fight Draco.
Too many derps around here have no idea what you're saying but complain anyway.
I'm a BM hunter.
I was thinking on the same thing as DracoDraco, I have no issues in hc dungeons and my gear is BiS pre-raiding while the ones I play with also have BiS pre-raiding, and I still top the dps meter.
I'm pulling around 128k Burst on bosses and then it goes down to around 70k dps and I still top the dps meter, only class I've seen that can top me is a elemental shaman.
Btw, Draco, I'm curious as to why you yourself did only 100k on Elegon. I'm sure you have your reasons, I'd just like to know what they are.