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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    80k on a 20 second fight is more than doable especially with a 483 weapon..
    Think you kind of missed the point here getting caught up with all the bragging about how high your dps can go goes for most of the people

    Im talking about hunters damage in general vs other classes being very weak and not how it usually is come start of expansion ret pallies doing 100k+ burst dps mages dropping 150k+ dps and hunters are left in the dust yes aoe fighting you can get up to 80-90k even 100k but throughout a proper fight that goes more than 20 secs is where our damage can't seem to keep up and others pull ahead

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Eironn View Post
    Perhaps anyone could help me out give me some tips to what could be going wrong

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Eironn/simple
    You haven't enchanted most of your gear.

    You are an engineer and don't have the glove enchant.

    You are below the hit cap and above the expertise cap.

    You are using the wrong gem on your legs.

    Don't complain about DPS when you can't be bothered to max out your character.

  3. #83
    This thread is getting ridiculous.

    Welcome to a scaling class. It's a new concept for Hunters. As a class we are so used to being top tier at the start of the expansion, the thought that we aren't makes us prone to QQing. What Draco has said is fact. The "Logs" you want to see are meaningless as no player in his right might will, not only log a instance run, but actually take that as an accurate DPS threshold. 80k Single Target 20 second fight? He was survival. Let me be BM with lust and I am betting I could pull 130k single target burst and maintain it for 20 seconds. In the end it DOES NOT MATTER.

    Right now we are in a strong place DPS wise, and we will only get better. With the changes to both AotH and HM any and all gear you get will be significant. Those of you complaining about low DPS, I argue you're simply not doing things correctly. Check your gear, check your rotation, make sure you're specced correctly. Either way the claims Draco have made are more than realistic, and calling him out with "Where are Logs" won't change that.

    This week will be the first normal raids. Even if we aren't doing very well, we will have legitimate proof from a legitimate source (Raids) to show what needs to change. I think many of you will be surprised, or probably disappointed because you will see your just playing bad and have no excuses.
    Last edited by Arktem; 2012-10-02 at 11:09 AM.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by PickledOnion View Post
    You haven't enchanted most of your gear.

    You are an engineer and don't have the glove enchant.

    You are below the hit cap and above the expertise cap.

    You are using the wrong gem on your legs.

    Don't complain about DPS when you can't be bothered to max out your character.

    Haven't enchanted most of my gear because it's going to be replaced tomorrow before raid

    Yes im an engineer and my gloves are enchanted i just haven't logged out (which i have now because of server maint)

    Yes i am below hitcap and above expertise cap because come tomorrow 3 pieces of gear will be replaced with epics so why waste gold

    Yes wrong gem because there being replaced

    Im complaining because i know my class and what its capable of and right now its not going well ret pallies and mages are stupidly op whether or not that is the case in raid well i hope not and i hope we scale better but it isn't looking good

    Rest assured all will be in order for raid

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Eironn View Post
    Haven't enchanted most of my gear because it's going to be replaced tomorrow before raid

    Yes im an engineer and my gloves are enchanted i just haven't logged out (which i have now because of server maint)

    Yes i am below hitcap and above expertise cap because come tomorrow 3 pieces of gear will be replaced with epics so why waste gold

    Yes wrong gem because there being replaced

    Im complaining because i know my class and what its capable of and right now its not going well ret pallies and mages are stupidly op whether or not that is the case in raid well i hope not and i hope we scale better but it isn't looking good

    Rest assured all will be in order for raid
    The reason for him posting those things is because you are complaining about Hunter DPS NOW. Not tomorrow after raid gear, now. If you aren't maximizing now you have no right to comment on where Hunters are. Pure and simple.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Arktem View Post
    The reason for him posting those things is because you are complaining about Hunter DPS NOW. Not tomorrow after raid gear, now. If you aren't maximizing now you have no right to comment on where Hunters are. Pure and simple.
    Actually wrong when i see a mage or ret doing 100k+ single target burst and im doing 50k i know either my class needs a buff or there class needs a nerf don't sit here and tell me a few enchants and things is gonna make 40-50k dps difference

    You guys really need to wake up and get rid of that epeen of yours

    I will wait till raid and see how we go vs others but im fairly certain say 97% sure i'll be back here saying hunter is indeed lacking there the lowest on the simulations and im sure there going to be the lowest or 1 of the lowest on the logs only time will tell

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Eironn View Post
    Actually wrong when i see a mage or ret doing 100k+ single target burst and im doing 50k i know either my class needs a buff or there class needs a nerf don't sit here and tell me a few enchants and things is gonna make 40-50k dps difference

    You guys really need to wake up and get rid of that epeen of yours

    I will wait till raid and see how we go vs others but im fairly certain say 97% sure i'll be back here saying hunter is indeed lacking there the lowest on the simulations and im sure there going to be the lowest or 1 of the lowest on the logs only time will tell
    You do that. I'll be one of the ones at the top waving back at you.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Arktem View Post
    You do that. I'll be one of the ones at the top waving back at you.
    So much epeen my eyes bleed good luck with raid

  9. #89
    while the servers reset I might as well hop in the conversation. Yes hunter damage is lower then other classes with the same gear level right now. Yes bm feels clunky. Yes we can "burst" which is fine for burst situations pvp / special pve mobs. But, over all its early and I have come to the conclusion that hunter dps will suffer in the begining tiers but as the stats grow on our gear our dps will grow exponentially. Will we be top dps come last tier? beats me but I do think we have to turbo geek some more on the situation. Our scaling "has" changed and to the untrained eye you can jump to the all is lost conclusion without seeing the big picture. Yes we all want to be competitive but I was tiered of scaling poorly at the end. I was tired of not being excited about gear drops because I already knew it was going to only be a tiny dps increase. I was tired of watching other classes hit huge break points and their dps would sky rocket. Now we have something to look forward to.

  10. #90
    440 ilvl - Barely scratching 35k dps.
    445 ilvl - Hovering below 40k dps.
    450 ilvl - Hovering at 40k dps.
    455 ilvl - Can do about 50k dps on a good attempt
    461 ilvl (Current) - Constantly pulling 60k or so single target. While doing something dumb like popping my haste cooldowns without even getting to use Cobra Shot during the entire duration.

    From what I've seen and experienced, none of this is a class issue. It's a gear issue. Did anyone here do more than 20k in 333s back in Cata? Doubt it. My Warrior (different class blah blah) dps in 346 ilvl gear was barely cutting 20k. This is pre-raid, pre-heroic gear levels we are arguing over. Remember that Survival Hunters don't bring the 10% haste buff anymore, that's a huge dps loss if we don't have our Hyena out, or a rogue/dpsDK.

    Only thing I see that holds any merit is that Survival seems to lack a "huge" burst like Mages, Locks, and Rets. I haven't seen these classes hold their high dps towards the end of a 3 minute fight, or on AOE. Some classes/specs are awesome at burst, others at multitarget, others at cleaving, others as sustained.

    Comparing ilvls now back to Cata. It seems appropriate to label 440 ilvl as the new 329. 450 as about 335, iffy on the in between heroic-able and heroic gear. 463 as 346.

    Edit: Holds no meaning to the conversation, but on our Armory links, why doesn't Expertise show for Hunters by default? I have to tab over to Melee stats to see it.
    Last edited by Jeremypwnz; 2012-10-02 at 01:18 PM.
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  11. #91
    Yes its a gear issue, but with shammys tied to hunter gear "except for the bow" the only changes I see coming if any will be to gear set bonuses and ranged weapon.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Eironn View Post
    So they add a few more keys in and all of a sudden you think your a god and anyone else who played previously just can't cope with new design lol ... im not even gonna bother discussing further with you

    Still no logs of non aoe 80k+ dps would love to see it though
    No, I don't think I'm a god. I think I'm a better player than you, for obvious reasons such as being able to, y'know, see how well you've done over the past few years raid-wise. And I think I'm a better player because you are obviously struggling with keeping up, while I don't have that issue. What could the difference be? Could it be that I'm better? Oh dear.
    Meanwhile, you haven't provided logs of a proper ret/mage doing what you're claiming either. Once again, 20-30 sec fights doesn't matter, rets and mages have always been bursty. Find us Galleon or Sha of Anger logs, that should give us a better picture.

    But hey, I encourage you - please, find me these elusive ret pallies and mages that can beat me so badly. I'd like to do a few random HC's with them, see how well we do compared to each other .

    Quote Originally Posted by Eironn View Post
    Actually wrong when i see a mage or ret doing 100k+ single target burst and im doing 50k i know either my class needs a buff or there class needs a nerf don't sit here and tell me a few enchants and things is gonna make 40-50k dps difference

    You guys really need to wake up and get rid of that epeen of yours

    I will wait till raid and see how we go vs others but im fairly certain say 97% sure i'll be back here saying hunter is indeed lacking there the lowest on the simulations and im sure there going to be the lowest or 1 of the lowest on the logs only time will tell
    They're just better players than you. You're in the 60th percentile. There are players out there that are almost "double" as good as you.
    Any and all enchants are significant, especially now that their bonuses are so overwhelmingly big as they actually are (I mean, 170 agility for my bracer enchant? 285 for my leg enchant? Holy shit guys, thats like, ALOT. Not to mention 320/330 agil from my proff bonuses).
    As said, without attempting to, I bursted 86K as surv - A spec that has ALWAYS been known to be a low-bursting, reliable DPS spec (aka alot of small sustained damage adding up to a big force of constant hurt that never really deviated much) As a player mentioned, BM is a much more bursty spec with BW - getting +130K as BM would be absolutly no issue at all, and then I'd be on par with your ret pallys/mages. Right? Because burst in the first 30 seconds is all that matters. So just go BM, you'll be "on par".

    Quote Originally Posted by Arktem View Post
    You do that. I'll be one of the ones at the top waving back at you.
    Right there with you. Btw, WoU HC is stronger than your coren's, by about 700 dps =P.

    Quote Originally Posted by tapout1224 View Post
    Yes its a gear issue, but with shammys tied to hunter gear "except for the bow" the only changes I see coming if any will be to gear set bonuses and ranged weapon.
    Why would they change the gear to fix a class? That's just stupid. They'd change the class and ability scaling <.<. When people say "gear issue", it's not because we don't get enough stats to be doing well, it's because people aren't geared well enough.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    No, I don't think I'm a god. I think I'm a better player than you, for obvious reasons such as being able to, y'know, see how well you've done over the past few years raid-wise. And I think I'm a better player because you are obviously struggling with keeping up, while I don't have that issue. What could the difference be? Could it be that I'm better? Oh dear.
    Meanwhile, you haven't provided logs of a proper ret/mage doing what you're claiming either. Once again, 20-30 sec fights doesn't matter, rets and mages have always been bursty. Find us Galleon or Sha of Anger logs, that should give us a better picture.

    But hey, I encourage you - please, find me these elusive ret pallies and mages that can beat me so badly. I'd like to do a few random HC's with them, see how well we do compared to each other .



    They're just better players than you. You're in the 60th percentile. There are players out there that are almost "double" as good as you.
    Any and all enchants are significant, especially now that their bonuses are so overwhelmingly big as they actually are (I mean, 170 agility for my bracer enchant? 285 for my leg enchant? Holy shit guys, thats like, ALOT. Not to mention 320/330 agil from my proff bonuses).
    As said, without attempting to, I bursted 86K as surv - A spec that has ALWAYS been known to be a low-bursting, reliable DPS spec (aka alot of small sustained damage adding up to a big force of constant hurt that never really deviated much) As a player mentioned, BM is a much more bursty spec with BW - getting +130K as BM would be absolutly no issue at all, and then I'd be on par with your ret pallys/mages. Right? Because burst in the first 30 seconds is all that matters. So just go BM, you'll be "on par".



    Right there with you. Btw, WoU HC is stronger than your coren's, by about 700 dps =P.



    Why would they change the gear to fix a class? That's just stupid. They'd change the class and ability scaling <.<. When people say "gear issue", it's not because we don't get enough stats to be doing well, it's because people aren't geared well enough.
    Trust me I know and I would be using it if I had it lol. Enigma didn't have much farm time . And the Hunter bug on Scholomance trinket means I can't get that either.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Arktem View Post
    And the Hunter bug on Scholomance trinket means I can't get that either.
    Aggravating the piss out of me too. Brewmaster and feral in my 5 mans usually
    My hunter is the genetic love child of Liam Neeson, the Dos Equis guy and Chuck Norris. You lose.


  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuadu View Post
    Aggravating the piss out of me too. Brewmaster and feral in my 5 mans usually
    Thats one I haven't heard of, what bug is it ? As you can see on my armory, I've got the trinket just fine :x.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Thats one I haven't heard of, what bug is it ? As you can see on my armory, I've got the trinket just fine :x.
    We can't roll need on it.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by refire View Post
    We can't roll need on it.
    Hm :s. Guess I was in a guild group when I got mine. Man, that sucks badly, considering it's the best pre-raid trinket (apart from DMC).

    Btw, WTB 3/4/5/7/8 of tigers (((.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Hm :s. Guess I was in a guild group when I got mine. Man, that sucks badly, considering it's the best pre-raid trinket (apart from DMC).

    Btw, WTB 3/4/5/7/8 of tigers (((.
    DMC is best in slot now with the PvP trinket nerfs?

  19. #99
    The one time I saw it drop, it got DE'd because I didn't know about the bug.
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  20. #100
    I am Murloc! Anjerith's Avatar
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    The problem is really that Hunters still have a psychological perception that their damage should just "be". The reality is that we now have to take into account our position, thanks to expertise. If your not behind the boss, if your not expertise capped - these thing will now affect you.
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Gold and the 'need' for it in-game is easily one of the most overblown mindsets in this community.

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