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  1. #181
    Yeah, aMoC's "special" thing of reducing the CD to a minute is stupid. The number of situations in which it would matter or change anything are like nonexistant, even with multiple targets. If it's on a boss, the boss will likely be dead or too near dead to bother with aMoC after 60s, and if it's on an add, that add probably has too low health to bother with aMoC at all sub 20%.

    Maybe if it reduced it by like a minute and 50 seconds so you could use it on additional targets but not be able to just spam it wildly on every target below 20. Even then it wouldn't be that fantastic.

  2. #182
    BM is doing far more damage than marks and surv right now, which is usually the case early on in expansions. I don't recall any expansion where a hunter didn't start out completely OP and end up less so via nerfs and scaling issues. The closest hunters came to that was the 1 button macro days way back when, and that was just blizzard fiddling with things partway through to our benefit.

    I'm not sure what you're talking about, but in 5 mans with adds hunters are definitely on the low end of the spectrum. On single target fights I've seen hunters competitive.


    I main a tank and prefer to do pugs so I've seen hundreds of players playing with me. It isn't the static-ish groups people tend to run with and base their opinions on.

    I've done single target fights where everyone was at 75k-ish. I've seen hunters dominate at 80k+ with others at 20-30k. Beast seems to be faring the best currently, but i've seen relatively few of the others for real comparison.

    The only classes that can keep up with me as prot paladin with AE are various DKs and warlocks. In the student room in scholo I can easily sustain 150k depending on the # of decent AErs in the fight (since pally can glyph for ae boost sub 20% mob health)


    Playing my hunter, I feel like I'm not seeing the "don't need gear" bump I usually do early expansions, and suffering due to it. Really its just other classes needing gear less, and us needing it more. And majority of the fights have AE components which benefit basically every other class more than us, unless we are to sacrifice single target dps from beast for a better AE spec.

    I just think they overcompensated for beast's lackings. And they'll nerf it as they've always done, I feel its an accessibility decision where more people want to play "tame the pets and autoattack" than the other hunter specs to their fullest more than anything else.

    Maybe this will be addressed in tier bonuses or maybe they'll actually add some useful glyphs for hunters, and not the current mediocre glyphs. The glyph choices on every other class are far more compelling. Only the auto-mark glyph is interesting and that's the only one that actually offers anything... shrug.

  3. #183
    Frott, BM isn't really the best single target spec by that much. Numbers are horribly skewed in heroics, especially when the whole group is cranking out numbers like 80k. The bosses are dropping before the CDs wear off, leading to very close to 100% up-times of cooldowns such as Heroism, BW, Dire Beast etc. In real fights, people aren't going to be pulling those types of numbers barring gimmicks.

    BM actually averages out fairly close to Survival in a sustained environment, it theoretically has a slight lead, but pet AI and overall spec clunkiness will invariably screw that up.

  4. #184

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by frott View Post
    BM is doing far more damage than marks and surv right now, which is usually the case early on in expansions. I don't recall any expansion where a hunter didn't start out completely OP and end up less so via nerfs and scaling issues. The closest hunters came to that was the 1 button macro days way back when, and that was just blizzard fiddling with things partway through to our benefit.

    I'm not sure what you're talking about, but in 5 mans with adds hunters are definitely on the low end of the spectrum. On single target fights I've seen hunters competitive.


    I main a tank and prefer to do pugs so I've seen hundreds of players playing with me. It isn't the static-ish groups people tend to run with and base their opinions on.

    I've done single target fights where everyone was at 75k-ish. I've seen hunters dominate at 80k+ with others at 20-30k. Beast seems to be faring the best currently, but i've seen relatively few of the others for real comparison.

    The only classes that can keep up with me as prot paladin with AE are various DKs and warlocks. In the student room in scholo I can easily sustain 150k depending on the # of decent AErs in the fight (since pally can glyph for ae boost sub 20% mob health)


    Playing my hunter, I feel like I'm not seeing the "don't need gear" bump I usually do early expansions, and suffering due to it. Really its just other classes needing gear less, and us needing it more. And majority of the fights have AE components which benefit basically every other class more than us, unless we are to sacrifice single target dps from beast for a better AE spec.

    I just think they overcompensated for beast's lackings. And they'll nerf it as they've always done, I feel its an accessibility decision where more people want to play "tame the pets and autoattack" than the other hunter specs to their fullest more than anything else.

    Maybe this will be addressed in tier bonuses or maybe they'll actually add some useful glyphs for hunters, and not the current mediocre glyphs. The glyph choices on every other class are far more compelling. Only the auto-mark glyph is interesting and that's the only one that actually offers anything... shrug.
    BM isn't doing "far more" than survival right now, and many are showing the difference to be quite small single target wise. Survival is overall stronger for 5 mans due to the more potent AoE. I compete with others on AoE just fine as SV.

  6. #186
    i think im obv doing something wrong - i think im doing well getting around 30-35k dps in 5 mans, and thats on normal dungeons, not sure if what your talking about is on heroics but there u go - i play surv atm and usually im around 30k overall for the instance

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiralphoenix View Post
    BM isn't doing "far more" than survival right now, and many are showing the difference to be quite small single target wise. Survival is overall stronger for 5 mans due to the more potent AoE. I compete with others on AoE just fine as SV.
    understatement of the year =S i completely outclass anyone in aoe as survival, it's ridiculous.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    understatement of the year =S i completely outclass anyone in aoe as survival, it's ridiculous.
    I've been beaten by a couple good mages in an AE burst situation, but that is about it.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    understatement of the year =S i completely outclass anyone in aoe as survival, it's ridiculous.
    I rarely beat the Brewmaster tank friend of mine in AoE as survival. I haven't run with other tanks much so I can't speak for tank AoE in general, but Brewmaster AoE is silly powerful. Did not need a buff at all.

  10. #190
    Everyone keeps linking that video like it means anything. Kripp was playing at a 1k MMR. He was VS people with 0 to low resilience using PvP gear. Of course he is going to rape them.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Arktem View Post
    Everyone keeps linking that video like it means anything. Kripp was playing at a 1k MMR. He was VS people with 0 to low resilience using PvP gear. Of course he is going to rape them.
    1600 MMR** watch the video again sir.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    understatement of the year =S i completely outclass anyone in aoe as survival, it's ridiculous.

    I have it the same way, yet to meet someone who can do more than my 250-300k on standard aoe packs(25+)

  13. #193
    The more important question to be asking...

    Why is a PvP related video being linked into a PvE DPS damage thread?

    Or are people just that thick?

  14. #194
    Herald of the Titans Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Well from what I've seen now in 2 nights, Hunters are in a very good spot. I enjoy BM and been using it for every fight so far(our guild is 3/6 25m currently). You just have to keep a track of your CDs very carefully, sure mistakes do happen to everyone(Eg. the very usual DB/GT when KC is off CD already ) but we're just learning the fights still.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    understatement of the year =S i completely outclass anyone in aoe as survival, it's ridiculous.
    Top AOE DPS in the guild. But the Blood DK beats me with outrageous amounts of vengeance. Trash before the first boss.

  16. #196
    Herald of the Titans Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremypwnz View Post
    Top AOE DPS in the guild. But the Blood DK beats me with outrageous amounts of vengeance. Trash before the first boss.
    That's because Serpent Spread is not AoE. Your Serpent Sting is applied to every target your Multi shot hits, therefore causing the instant damage and the Dot without reduction of AoE cap and DKs are also strong because they can spread diseases which isn't AoE the same way Hunters Serpent Spread isn't.

  17. #197
    Imo hunters are fine. People are just saying hunters aren't fine and such just because it's harder to get top dps now.
    Last edited by Tehstool; 2012-10-05 at 07:46 AM.

  18. #198
    Those that are saying hunters are fine, no fight really measures aswell as Feng. I just looked at 25 man normal ranks for this fight. There is not hunter represented in the top 200, infact our best entry is from Draco and he's in at 259, 30K+ DPS behind the number 1 ranked player. Rather than QQ I'd like to hear a logical explaination to how this is "fine". A difference of 5-10K I am prepared to take, different classes better at different things but isn't our top hunter ranking vs the top rankings gap a little too big. Its not like its a cleave fight - its plain and simple a single target encounter. We did say here that we'd see how the logs would look at speculating purely from 5 man heroics is wrong. Is this a fact that hunters will scale insanely with gear and be able to make up that huge margin in DPS difference between us and the top classes when we are geared. Scaling is one thing but I cannot see how we can scale that much. Perhaps I am wrong but an explaination would be great.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Windthorn View Post
    Those that are saying hunters are fine, no fight really measures aswell as Feng. I just looked at 25 man normal ranks for this fight. There is not hunter represented in the top 200, infact our best entry is from Draco and he's in at 259, 30K+ DPS behind the number 1 ranked player. Rather than QQ I'd like to hear a logical explaination to how this is "fine". A difference of 5-10K I am prepared to take, different classes better at different things but isn't our top hunter ranking vs the top rankings gap a little too big. Its not like its a cleave fight - its plain and simple a single target encounter. We did say here that we'd see how the logs would look at speculating purely from 5 man heroics is wrong. Is this a fact that hunters will scale insanely with gear and be able to make up that huge margin in DPS difference between us and the top classes when we are geared. Scaling is one thing but I cannot see how we can scale that much. Perhaps I am wrong but an explaination would be great.
    Ppl mix things up, they think we scale better, because blizzard changed hawk and hm to a massive (haha) 15% increased overall damage. But in the meantime they also nerfed our skill scaling to a minimum. Also 10% increase damage from serpent sting is gone for example. So basically we don't scale much better.

    Also its not like other classes dont have any scaling abilities. Most of the other classes have far better scaling.

    Feral got 30% damage increase.
    Paladin got 30% holy damage increase.
    DKS have several damage boosting skills.
    Monks have 30% armor ignore / 10 damage buff skills.
    Affliction wl got haunt 25% spell damage increase.

    [...]

    The list goes on. Hunter scaling is OK. But we definitely DONT outscale the other classes. We are a one trick pony, thanks to all other specs doing the same (single dps with different massive aoe capacities) and our trick isnt even good.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Windthorn View Post
    Those that are saying hunters are fine, no fight really measures aswell as Feng. I just looked at 25 man normal ranks for this fight. There is not hunter represented in the top 200, infact our best entry is from Draco and he's in at 259, 30K+ DPS behind the number 1 ranked player. Rather than QQ I'd like to hear a logical explaination to how this is "fine". A difference of 5-10K I am prepared to take, different classes better at different things but isn't our top hunter ranking vs the top rankings gap a little too big. Its not like its a cleave fight - its plain and simple a single target encounter. We did say here that we'd see how the logs would look at speculating purely from 5 man heroics is wrong. Is this a fact that hunters will scale insanely with gear and be able to make up that huge margin in DPS difference between us and the top classes when we are geared. Scaling is one thing but I cannot see how we can scale that much. Perhaps I am wrong but an explaination would be great.
    There's 1 DPS in the top 200.
    There's 9 DPS ahead of me (2 ferals, 2 fire mages, 2 warriors, 1 unh dk, 1 ele shaman 1 warlock).
    I am literally in the top 10 on Feng if you exclude the 250 tanks that gets vengeance and special abilities on this fight <.<.

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