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  1. #61
    Brewmaster dryankem's Avatar
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    Admittedly I haven't dps'd as shadow a whole lot (switched to shadow at 5.0 but barely touched it in cata) and I'm likely not running nearly enough haste but my spriest feels slightly under powered as well. The one area that I admit I struggle on is trash pulls (common complaint for dot classes but I still think there is room for me to improve there), but any pull with 1-3 mobs that live long enough to have to refresh dots on I feel really strong. Usually I find I'm battling for 1st in my 5 mans (I've just hit 89 last night) but I'm usually pulling in the 25k range for the entire dungeon (falling behind on trash but catching up at bosses).

    In comparison my frost DK at level 86 is pulling slightly over 30k for the entire dungeon and I'm guessing at 88-89 (where my priest is) I'll be pulling 40k with ease.

  2. #62
    The Patient Nymie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkillOverKill View Post
    No. The highest dps I've seen in a heroic was a prot warrior who maintained 180k dps over a good 30 second pull (10ish mob AoE).
    My GM is now a monk tank and is pulling 200k on aoe pulls. Can we say obnoxious tank numbers?

    We started raids last night and was in the bottom 5 most of the night. To compare, I parsed frequently from the start of DS til the end. I have played shadow for 5 years and am a thread stalker. What I am saying is I know my way around shadow fairly well (not claiming to be perfect by any means). It made my heart sink. I will say that I took a little longer to level because of school and my gear is 461ilvl, and I think a lot of people are a good bit above me so maybe that had an impact. I think it is telling when you look at world first/second/etc kills and a few of them have no shadowpriests in them; it reminds me of early Ulduar days when a lot of guilds sat shadowpriests for first kills. Yeah, I know world first Spine kill was all mages and rogues and support staff, but I am anxiously watching if this repeats itself. I personally hate the multidot system for AOE due to so many things being dead fairly quickly, our mind seer sucks (how I miss the days of TOC and the insane numbers).

    WoW since '06, Army wife since '09, U of MD Law

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymie View Post
    We started raids last night and was in the bottom 5 most of the night. To compare, I parsed frequently from the start of DS til the end. I have played shadow for 5 years and am a thread stalker. What I am saying is I know my way around shadow fairly well (not claiming to be perfect by any means). It made my heart sink. I will say that I took a little longer to level because of school and my gear is 461ilvl, and I think a lot of people are a good bit above me so maybe that had an impact. I think it is telling when you look at world first/second/etc kills and a few of them have no shadowpriests in them; it reminds me of early Ulduar days when a lot of guilds sat shadowpriests for first kills. Yeah, I know world first Spine kill was all mages and rogues and support staff, but I am anxiously watching if this repeats itself. I personally hate the multidot system for AOE due to so many things being dead fairly quickly, our mind seer sucks (how I miss the days of TOC and the insane numbers).
    Wait a moment here, either my memory is faulty, or I missed something. When did any respectable guild sat shadowpriests for their first kills in Ulduar? We were pretty strong back then, Ensidia (or was they Nihilium?) ran 2-3 SPs a raid for example. And there are Spriests in both Vodka & BL screenshots, so I don't know which world first / second you are talking about (10m comps don't count, btw).

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Burchoid View Post
    If you gear right and play right you should be topping DPS meters in raids and heroics dungeons! I would recommend spending some time outside of the game doing some research (with a good SP pve guide) to make sure you aren't missing anything important.
    Why should spriest top everything, what makes them have this ability? I could say what you said about any other dps spec in this game.

  5. #65
    Herald of the Titans Keosen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burchoid View Post
    If you gear right and play right you should be topping DPS meters in raids and heroics dungeons! I would recommend spending some time outside of the game doing some research (with a good SP pve guide) to make sure you aren't missing anything important.
    This is entirely false.
    If you are topping raids dps meter at the moment then your guildies are just not that good as the average player of their class.
    There is no way to outdps an equally good geared/skilled dps except certain cases like rogues,shamans,paladins but classes like mage,lock,dk,druid literally blowing us of the water.

    Our AoE is pathetic, our sinlge target damage output is mediocre at best and even in our speciality fights, the 2 target encounters, we need to struggle just to be competitive.
    Last edited by Keosen; 2012-10-12 at 06:39 AM.

  6. #66
    I was about to suggest my replacement last night in progression raid due to not having an aoe damage ability. Mind sear is mass faerie fire at best. Breaking my keyboard, I did almost as much as Light's hammer of the tank. Almost though.

    I seriously do not get how this kind of weirdness makes the game.

  7. #67
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by espoire View Post
    Just raided, got world 10th Shadow on Gara'jal10. Halo is godmode for the spirit realm. One cast, literally everything dies. "Ok, chaps, I guess we're done here, back to the boss." Shadow has extremely situational AoE, but it's not inherently bad. Our single target is "fine", although 5-10% on the weak side. We may be "good" at 2-3 target cleave, but Affliction blows us out of the water, as do tanks.

    To the OP: it gets better in raids. Also, Shadow pseudo-healers are in demand for Gold level challenge mode runs. Yes, you will continue to be worthless for questing, 5mans, sustained AoE even with gear.
    I spit on warlocks as a boomkin. All comes down to how you play. Sims after all are sims, patchwerk / multidotting and well rng is rng

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Keosen View Post
    This is entirely false.
    If you are topping raids dps meter at the moment then your guildies are just not that good as the average player of their class.
    There is no way to outdps an equally good geared/skilled dps except certain cases like rogues,shamans,paladins but classes like mage,lock,dk,druid literally blowing us of the water.

    Our AoE is pathetic, our sinlge target damage output is mediocre at best and even in our speciality fights, the 2 target encounters, we need to struggle just to be competitive.
    I'd beg to differ, going by raidbots (average of top 100 parses), we are placing well in Stone Guard, Elegon and Will (both 10 & 25) - which is 3 / 6 bosses, unless #2 and #4 isn't counted as competitive.
    Personally, I never have trouble in getting in top 5 of these 3 fights (SG N/H, Elegon, Will), + Spiritbinder (but I came in the spirit realm together with the one who was logging so that probably won't be correct - similar to issue of logging in VnT) with my gear far from maxxed (only 474 atm, got lucky with Elegon trinket though). My guild is within top 50 US, which may not be much, but I don't think that the other DPS "are just not that good as the average player of their class". Does that mean we are fine? No, it doesn't, I myself would always welcome a DPS buff. But it means SP aren't as bad as some of us are making it out to be, at least with the first 6 bosses of this tier. Unless a SP's guild is a super guild in which every players have already maxed their DPSing skills / tricks and ranked in the general (not class-specific) top 200 of every fight, he / she can always be competitive by practicing more
    Last edited by Qualia; 2012-10-12 at 10:43 AM.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Qualia View Post
    I'd beg to differ, going by raidbots (average of top 100 parses), we are placing well in Stone Guard, Elegon and Will (both 10 & 25) - which is 3 / 6 bosses, unless #2 and #4 isn't counted as competitive.
    Personally, I never have trouble in getting in top 5 of these 3 fights (SG N/H, Elegon, Will), + Spiritbinder (but I came in the spirit realm together with the one who was logging so that probably won't be correct - similar to issue of logging in VnT) with my gear far from maxxed (only 474 atm, got lucky with Elegon trinket though). My guild is within top 50 US, which may not be much, but I don't think that the other DPS "are just not that good as the average player of their class". Does that mean we are fine? No, it doesn't, I myself would always welcome a DPS buff. But it means SP aren't as bad as some of us are making it out to be, at least with the first 6 bosses of this tier. Unless a SP's guild is a super guild in which every players have already maxed their DPSing skills / tricks and ranked in the general (not class-specific) top 200 of every fight, he / she can always be competitive by practicing more
    we are fine on single/2-3 targets. It's just the aoe that's pretty much nonexistent.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Jervaise View Post
    we are fine on single/2-3 targets. It's just the aoe that's pretty much nonexistent.
    We are complete shit on single target. On Feng we are bottom of DPS unless the other players are doing something wrong.

  11. #71
    Herald of the Titans Keosen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qualia View Post
    I'd beg to differ, going by raidbots (average of top 100 parses), we are placing well in Stone Guard, Elegon and Will (both 10 & 25) - which is 3 / 6 bosses, unless #2 and #4 isn't counted as competitive.
    Personally, I never have trouble in getting in top 5 of these 3 fights (SG N/H, Elegon, Will), + Spiritbinder (but I came in the spirit realm together with the one who was logging so that probably won't be correct - similar to issue of logging in VnT) with my gear far from maxxed (only 474 atm, got lucky with Elegon trinket though). My guild is within top 50 US, which may not be much, but I don't think that the other DPS "are just not that good as the average player of their class". Does that mean we are fine? No, it doesn't, I myself would always welcome a DPS buff. But it means SP aren't as bad as some of us are making it out to be, at least with the first 6 bosses of this tier. Unless a SP's guild is a super guild in which every players have already maxed their DPSing skills / tricks and ranked in the general (not class-specific) top 200 of every fight, he / she can always be competitive by practicing more
    Ok that's your opinion.
    Mine is entirely based on personal experience and not inacurate logs.
    I'm raiding with the same raiding dps core of 5-6 people since mid Vanilla and it's the first time that i'm falling way behind because my class just can't compete.
    Our AoE is non-existent, our 2/3 target dps it's mediocre/ok and our single target is weak that's from my point of view.
    Last edited by Keosen; 2012-10-12 at 12:22 PM.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Keosen View Post
    Ok that's your opinion.
    Mine is entirely based on personal experience and not inacurate logs.
    I trust hundreds of logs with real data a lot more than your hunches, frankly. Logs might not be the last word in accuracy, but they're way better than gut feelings.

  13. #73
    Herald of the Titans Keosen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferin View Post
    I trust hundreds of logs with real data a lot more than your hunches, frankly. Logs might not be the last word in accuracy, but they're way better than gut feelings.
    It's not gut feeling it's logs and experience.
    When you are playing with same people for more than 6 years you pretty much know what everyone can do and what's wrong.
    We're not in a terrible state at the moment but we are weak compared to others, if your guild have for example has a mage,lock or warrior that is equally geared as you and yet you outdps him then they are worst players than you, it's that simple.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Keosen View Post
    It's not gut feeling it's logs and experience.
    When you are playing with same people for more than 6 years you pretty much know what everyone can do and what's wrong.
    We're not in a terrible state at the moment but we are weak compared to others, if your guild have for example has a mage,lock or warrior that is equally geared as you and yet you outdps him then they are worst players than you, it's that simple.
    You just said logs were inaccurate, and yet now you say it's logs that prove your point. Which is it?

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Keosen View Post
    This is entirely false.
    If you are topping raids dps meter at the moment then your guildies are just not that good as the average player of their class.
    There is no way to outdps an equally good geared/skilled dps except certain cases like rogues,shamans,paladins but classes like mage,lock,dk,druid literally blowing us of the water.

    Our AoE is pathetic, our sinlge target damage output is mediocre at best and even in our speciality fights, the 2 target encounters, we need to struggle just to be competitive.
    I disagree. I play with people who regularly rank top 100 and I am on-par or leading the pack on most encounters so far. I can keep up with our rank-happy warlock on most encounters too.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/10...kings/players/

    There's no way I'd be able to do it without changing specs between bosses, having all my proc/icd trackers working, prepotting, multidotting like a madman, and so on.

    2-night progression raiding: http://www.fullspectrumguild.com
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  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Burchoid View Post
    I disagree. I play with people who regularly rank top 100 and I am on-par or leading the pack on most encounters so far. I can keep up with our rank-happy warlock on most encounters too.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/10...kings/players/

    There's no way I'd be able to do it without changing specs between bosses, having all my proc/icd trackers working, prepotting, multidotting like a madman, and so on.
    What? Where is it close? You got rank 8 on Feng, he got rank 20 smth. If he had been rank 8, he'd be 7k or something DPS above you. 7000. He is playing Demonology on Will.

  17. #77

  18. #78
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obao98 View Post
    You are SERIOUSLY doing something wrong. Talking about PVP here.

    In arena Spriest are almost immortal (and PVP in general).

    You simply cannot kill a skilled Spriest. Yesterday I was doing some arenas with a friend of mine, a pally retri (who has the 2200 achievs in 2v2, 3v3). I was playing as an Unholy DK. We fought and lost 3 times to a Spriest and a Frost DK. So thinking that we would face them again, I went Blood, and needless to say, we did fight them again. My Retri friend got destroyed, but we managed to leave the Frost DK with 15-20% life, and I was able to finish him. So now it was me, Blood DK, versus Spriest. The fight went on for 35-40 minutes, and I just couldn't for my life kill the spriest. Anyone saying "lol you´re a blood DK sucks" clearly doesn't know the state Blood DKs are in currently. Pretty much immortal, and hitting like a truck as well. I just couldn't hurt the spriest at all. Too much healing, and too much CC. The ONLY problem was that the Spriest was hitting me so much he kept literally running out of mana, but I just wouldn't die. So in the end, after 40 minutes or so, he just afks out of the arena, full life.

    BTW, after this fight, I did some other fights as Blood, and at 1 time, my pally friend got killed again against a Rogue and Arms Warrior (both were at 75%+). And after 15-20 minutes of fighting, I was able to kill them both. Actually killed the Rogue pretty fast, but the Warrior took some real long time as well. Warriors are pretty much the new Blood DKs. Regen 3% health every second? WTF? OP much? Anyway, just saying this to show the dmg Blood DKs have currently. And I still couldn't kill that Spriest.

    I foresee lots of Spriest in the highest arena ranks. You can write that down.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 06:04 PM ----------

    BTW, during all of Cata, my main was my Spriest (got legendary staff during FL). I know very well how Spriest work.
    Blood dks in PvE gain Vengeance when mobs attack them and frequently end up with over 100,000 attack power - hence Blood Boil - which up until the hotfix last night was scaling from 20% of attack power + base damage - was hitting for upwards of 20k per mob, non-crit. In PvP you do NOT gain vengeance and hence blood dk damage is pretty much garbage - which is why you couldn't outdps renew ;p As a frost or unholy dk, you would have had a far far better shot 1v1 versus the spriest, but as blood you aren't a threat in pvp versus a well-played caster (of any class).

    Edit: You also aren't really a threat to melee in pvp either, they just can't kill you through Death Strikes because their damage stops when they aren't in melee with you - ours doesn't. Go a real spec. Also, have you considered the possibility they are better than you, and that's part of why they're scoring the first kill? That you killed their dk after the fact is mostly irrelevant - your way behind them at that point and its hardly a fair 1v1 when the spriest has already been tunneling you while you fight the dk and the dk's damage is running into you as well.
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2012-10-12 at 10:48 PM.
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  19. #79
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Noted in the hotfixes for today that Mind Sear and Cascade got a 25% buff.

    Here are the priest notes from today's hotfixes:

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    - Prayer of Healing and Prayer of Mending now provide 25% more healing when cast by Holy and Discipline Priests.
    - Battle Fatigue properly reduces the effects of Sacred Shield in PvP.
    - Archangel now affects Spirit Shell properly.
    - Void Shift can now only work on other players.
    - Cascade now deals 25% more damage or healing.
    - Mind Sear now deals 25% more damage.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/7207170
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2012-10-13 at 03:25 AM.
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  20. #80
    Stood in the Fire Drfireburns's Avatar
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    I'm curious how much more DPS SPriests will gain from the 25% MS buff. Currently we don't have an SPriest in our 10 man raids, so I can't really compare dps at this moment.

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