Is it fair to consider SW:TOR a failure?

[Forsedar]

By your logic

Warhammer Online is a success.

This is apples and oranges. If you have an actual counter-argument, please toss it into the discussion. Read the comment he quoted in his post :P

[Deleted]

SWOR was badly handled and was doomed to fade into obscurity from the get go due to many areas;

The Developer; Bioware had not made an MMO ever neither did they have the skill set to in the first stop. The problem with this is that their inexperience attributes to a huge factor and with EA breathing down their necks it was bound to get rushed because the capital being poured in easily over 250 million INCLUDING MARKETING. People can say oh Blizzard they had none either but they did. Blizzard snagged multiple deserters of Sony Online and other MMOs before development.

The graphics engine; It is no doubt that the engine for SWOR was a bad choice. I have run it on high end PCs and they squeal in pain. Many others express these issues but the worst part is that the Hero Engine is experimental. YOU DON'T DO THAT FFS, especially considering the fact it is really unmatching.

No innovation; SWOR is not innovative in any way, films do not count as it is a way of enhancing not overal a new feature. The problem with it is. The story suffers due to this because you have to listen to everyones crap. Additionally the moral choice system sucked hard and proved nothing.

The IP; not much to say than star wars as a whole has a rocky history.

[Forsedar]

The Developer; Bioware had not made an MMO ever neither did they have the skill set to in the first stop. The problem with this is that their inexperience attributes to a huge factor and with EA breathing down their necks it was bound to get rushed because the capital being poured in easily over 250 million INCLUDING MARKETING. People can say oh Blizzard they had none either but they did. Blizzard snagged multiple deserters of Sony Online and other MMOs before development.

You can't throw out numbers for the development cost because we still don't know fully. People make assumptions but thats all they are- assumptions. Also, Bioware had developers from other MMOs on their team.

The graphics engine; It is no doubt that the engine for SWOR was a bad choice. I have run it on high end PCs and they squeal in pain. Many others express these issues but the worst part is that the Hero Engine is experimental. YOU DON'T DO THAT FFS, especially considering the fact it is really unmatching.

My game runs flawlessly on the highest possible settings in a 16man environment with everything going on- and it is not high end. Its a nice computer, but its far from 'high end'. The Hero Engine is actually great. Why are server maintenances for major content patches pretty short? Because of the Hero Engine. The amount of effort to add and retract content on the fly is what makes the Hero Engine great. Its not quite perfect, but its still improving... just like ALL gaming engines. Just look up how many cycles the unreal engine has gone through.

No innovation; SWOR is not innovative in any way, films do not count as it is a way of enhancing not overal a new feature. The problem with it is. The story suffers due to this because you have to listen to everyones crap. Additionally the moral choice system sucked hard and proved nothing.

-Class specific stories that actually draw you in and immerse you into your characters role
-Rail Space Battles

Also, what has other MMOs offered that was 'innovative'?

The IP; not much to say than star wars as a whole has a rocky history.

I just... don't know what to say to this statement.

[Deleted]

This Video is of some retard walking about like some braindead flid. I tell you what ill post of video, of my lvl 50 bad ass, horny looking mara, smashing up pvp with ground smashes multi 6k crits, weilding dual white sabers, racking up 5/600k dps at match! - Or perhaps my 50 guilders can do the same of their awsome spec, charactors. Or we can post video's of the many great planets, ganking locations / instances. What do people expect when they login for the first time, for crying out loud. play the game lvl a charactor. As long as people expectations are too high they will never enjoy anything!

[Redblade]

My game runs flawlessly on the highest possible settings in a 16man environment with everything going on- and it is not high end. Its a nice computer, but its far from 'high end'.

You have been here long enough to know that how high end the PC is has little to do with it, people have struggled to run the game on various machines and it's an optimization issue with the engine.

The Hero Engine is actually great. Why are server maintenances for major content patches pretty short? Because of the Hero Engine. The amount of effort to add and retract content on the fly is what makes the Hero Engine great. Its not quite perfect, but its still improving... just like ALL gaming engines. Just look up how many cycles the unreal engine has gone through.

As far as I can remember the downtimes are not better than anyone else's really, and even if it had been I'd say it doesn't make it great as it doesn't seem to be better doing anything else.

-Rail Space Battles

That's not innovation, really... ^-^

[Alvito]

There's no such thing, if it's profitable. Let me put it to you this way. CEO, CFO, Presidents, they all get paid a salary. Business owners pay themselves a salary. It's all a part of their P&L's. What they get based on profit would be a bonus on top of their salary. Even if the profit is small, it's still going to pay them more than no profit at all. I think you may be thinking of pure revenue, without factoring in rent, deliveries, labor cost, etc. It makes no sense to shut down a store that's turning a profit.

I am thinking of profit, there can and often are points where even with something earning money it isn't earning enough. In some cases they split things up and close off branches or divisions of the old company in others they shut down projects. If a company has a set amount of profit it expects from its investments and projects they won't allow one not hitting that line to stick around and screw with the numbers. This happens even more with publicly traded companies that have share holders going crazy when they aren't getting what they expect to each quarter. So again and for the last time I'll say just being out of the red doesn't mean you are doing well or safe from being shut down. Is BW/EA going to shut down SWTOR, hell no. For many reasons AOC is still going and its in a far worse place. Just like at a point making money isn't enough they will shy off pulling the plug on SWTOR because of the backlash it would have on current and future project.

This really explains it in the most simple way I can think of.

A much more simple way to look at this is say 2 ppl are walking down the street both see a penny one might pass it up the other might grab it. For some the reward isn't worth the effort.

If that doesn't make sense it is clearly time to just agree to disagree.

[Blazer]

This Video is of some retard walking about like some braindead flid. I tell you what ill post of video, of my lvl 50 bad ass, horny looking mara, smashing up pvp with ground smashes multi 6k crits, weilding dual white sabers, racking up 5/600k dps at match! - Or perhaps my 50 guilders can do the same of their awsome spec, charactors. Or we can post video's of the many great planets, ganking locations / instances. What do people expect when they login for the first time, for crying out loud. play the game lvl a charactor. As long as people expectations are too high they will never enjoy anything!

So you're saying the game is only fun at higher level? Now that's just great.

[Kuthe]

I got my 60$ worth out of it.
Got to 50 multiple times.
Good stories.
I just treat it like every other AAA game I've bought and played.


But apart from that, yes it did fail.
Bioware/EA was way too gloaty about it being amazing.
WoW-killer mah butt.
Might play another story or two when it becomes F2P but apart from that, it's been fun.

[Deleted]

So you're saying the game is only fun at higher level? Now that's just great.

You have sex to orgasm right? - The sex is nice, and enjoyable but ultimately it’s about the end game, that’s normally the point of it. The sex is just what you have to go through. Levelling is fun, you have good customization, good game play, looks good, feels good, lots of planets, good story’s. Its easing you in slowly as not to overwhelm you. Getting you used to the new skills etc.

There not going to give you everything instantly because we always want more. It’s easy for the likes of me and you to judge a game, takes no effort to say yeah its crap. But unless you design it yourself you have no comprehension to what’s involved designing a game of this scale. We sit here and criticise but I’m sure if bioware gave you the same resource, time and budget you would struggle to as good a job.

When you think of how many hours, and how much detail has gone into it, thinking it, imagining it, designing it. It’s a dam fine effort when you step back and appreciate for what it is! I can imagine the best car in the world, looks and feel and handling, and speed, but I guarantee, even with an infinite budget, the reality of designing the car of my dreams will always fall short of what in reality can be achieved because we imagine perfection and in reality perfection does not exist except as intension.

So when reviewing a game like swtor people need to think about their comments and judge with a normal amount of perspective given the parameters and boundary’s for what is realistic to achieve. I’m not saying peoples view are wrong but I think people should exercise a normal amount of realism as to what’s doable in reality and what people expect within their imaginations. Yeah the game has flaws, but what game does not. Are too many people out there just wanting something that in reality is not achievable? Without a limitless budget, endless time, and with infinite resource?

I don’t like the film Avatar, but I still think it’s an amazing piece of film making. I read people comments and collectively it’s impossible to address everything – I think people expected a WOW beater, the made the game EPIC in their minds so EPIC nothing was ever going to be good enough and so when they began to play within 5 mins they decided nope it’s not what I had in my mind, and dumped it.

Most players who probably still play swtor do so because they prob did not have such high expectations, were not expected to dazzled beyond all comprehension. Yeah im not blown off my chair with swtor, but no game is going to bowl me over in that way. I played swtor, I gave it my time, and I enjoyed it and the more I play the more I love it. Can everyone honestly say they did the same. Or in their minds was it a fail before they even played it because that built it up to something it was never going to be? and no game is ever likely to be in my lifetime anyway.

[RoninaThorstone]

-Rail Space Battles

It was innovative in that it was a way in which no other mmo had enraged me before.

SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCEEEEE!!!

le sigh.

[Jalek]

If anyone has actually done TFB they would not say it's a failure, that place is awesome! HM is freaking stressful to heal, so much fun

[quras]

If anyone has actually done TFB they would not say it's a failure, that place is awesome! HM is freaking stressful to heal, so much fun

Got that right on both accounts.

TFB - Great raid, difficult content in HM and worth every penny.

The game could become a failure, I'll admit that but so far, it's not.

[Profyrion]

The graphics engine; It is no doubt that the engine for SWOR was a bad choice. I have run it on high end PCs and they squeal in pain. Many others express these issues but the worst part is that the Hero Engine is experimental. YOU DON'T DO THAT FFS, especially considering the fact it is really unmatching.

Your other points are bad, but this one worst of all. It's clear you haven't run the game on anything better than a single-core P4. The engine is just fine and the game world is beautiful and immersive. Please stop talking out of your ass.

[Redblade]

Your other points are bad, but this one worst of all. It's clear you haven't run the game on anything better than a single-core P4. The engine is just fine and the game world is beautiful and immersive. Please stop talking out of your ass.

Because your computer is representative of all the possible hardware configurations out there right? People had and possibly still have issues running the game of machines most gamers would dream of having, same as people with mid to high end machines struggled, it's simply a optimization issue with the engine.

[jvbastel]

I think you wouldn't be wrong to consider it a failure. The game itself is decent, but it's just a fact that a lot of people expected a lot more from BW/the KOTOR-franchise.
It just didn't offer enough for me to validate paying 15/month.

EA/BW themselves were without a doubt expecting more themselves, so yes, I would say TOR is a failure to some degree.

[iceberg265]

I got my 60$ worth out of it.
Got to 50 multiple times.
Good stories.
I just treat it like every other AAA game I've bought and played.


But apart from that, yes it did fail.
Bioware/EA was way too gloaty about it being amazing.
WoW-killer mah butt.
Might play another story or two when it becomes F2P but apart from that, it's been fun.

So you say it was worth your money and yet somehow it was still a failture....what?

[Alvito]

So you say it was worth your money and yet somehow it was still a failture....what?

It is all a matter of perspective. Say the Cleveland Browns go 8 and 8 this season that would be a huge success, if the 49ers did the same thing it would be an enormous failure. What a player might want from their playing experience and what the company is looking for isn't the same thing. I am in the same boat as Kuthe, for me I got my value out of what I paid and then some. If I were sitting over in the BW or EA offices my outlook would be different though.

[Deleted]

SWTOR had soo much potential but Developers decided to ruin the game thus the Game become a Failure.

1) Failing to listen the community at Beta adresssing some major issues.
2) Patch 1.1 illum revamp resulting a major bug with pppl gettting battlemaster soo easy and were incopetent to fix it as soon as possible,with no rolling restarts for the bug abusers.
3)Patch 1.2 expertise formula being changed along with some class balances made the game even worse.

I loved that game but got really disapointed with the developers

[SirRobin]

It was innovative in that it was a way in which no other mmo had enraged me before.

SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCEEEEE!!!

le sigh.

The day the revelations from PC Action leaked... Don't think I had ever seen a forum go into meltdown mode that fast.

[Edge-]

The day the revelations from PC Action leaked... Don't think I had ever seen a forum go into meltdown mode that fast.

Did I miss some juicy drama? I love drama.