To this effect, it's possible that SWTOR isn't making a dime, but is still within a window of opportunity to pay back the investment by changing business models. However, it's also unclear where the money that paid for SWTOR came from. It could have been profit from other games and had no debt attached to it. This is why it's absolutely critical for EA to release that information before we can even begin to say that SWTOR wasn't a failure.
It's immediately clear that SWTOR has been a failure in the MMO market and the changes which EA is making reflect that much. Just how much of a failure or how much of a success it could become in the future, depends entirely on the numbers we aren't being given. I tend to think that there's a level of embarrassment that prevents them from sharing those numbers. Honestly, and I am being perfectly honest here, I do not think that going free to play with a micro transactions system and a sub fee for premium content is a good idea. At this point in time, without a steady income of subs and content sales, they will not have the ability to address the issues the game has which need to be fixed in order to make it more appealing, as those games who DO have the income from a larger subscriber base.
You look at games like World of Warcraft and Rift as leaders in the MMO market for iteration and overall game improvements (I hate comparing games, but you have to in this instance). Wow is where it's at right now because the developers are absolutely committed to improving the game. A lot of people will say things like 'well they've had 8 years to do that' and that's completely besides the point. Every two years Blizzard has rolled out an expansion and then every 6 months a content patch, both of which bring major changes to the game, every time they do it. At any time during SWTOR development, they could have taken a snapshot of the features and systems within Wow and gotten a sense of the impact those changes have had over the course of 8 years. The game itself is hardly recognizable when compared to the original incarnation of the game. The only things which have essentially remained unchanged are the original art and textures which haven't yet been updated (notice I said 'yet').
If you want me to, I'll run down the list of things I would do to improve SWTOR, which would certainly be an immediate improvement.
Last edited by Eroginous; 2012-10-07 at 08:26 PM.
So yes they are actually worth less when using Blizzards promotion numbers, as individuals we would have to know how many hours on average the Chinese player use up monthly, a number I don't see Blizzard releasing...ever.
Only because EA are money hungry douchebags and released the game in December of 2011 instead of November 2012.
THE GAME ISN'T SUPPOSE TO BE OUT YET.
That being said when it goes f2p i'll play again just to pvp and wield a light saber.
It failed to do as well as it set out to, that much is certain.
A failure as a game? It was for me. I can't answer for anybody else.
Also Halo at peak times only had 120,000 people online at a time but that is deemed one of the biggest successes in the world.
We just need ARENAS.
ALSO, The hero engine is not a good engine to make an MMO on.
Last edited by Awake709; 2012-10-08 at 05:50 AM.
The game is good, it is fun, it has some great ideas.....but it was also highly unpolished, launched incomplete with too little end game, relied far, far too much on players playing alts for content with too little variation to make that fun, had too many flaws and bugs to keep its player base and is hobbled, to a degree, by its own innovations such as voice acting and the conversation system.
SW, right now, is slowly getting into the shape it should have had at launch. Its become more polished. Basic features have been added. Little annoyances and bugs have been ironed out. More end game has been added. The nuimber of servers is more appropriate to the player base. But I don't think its quite there even now.
Unfortunately, the game was pitched to compete with WoW as it was 7 years ago. Had SW launched at that time, it would have been a massive hit I believe. Even with all the flaws. But if people want an MMO today, they are going to compare it with WoW...which is, after 7 years, a highly polished piece of work.
And SW, by comparison, wasn't polished. Too many bells and whistles and not enough emphasis on getting the basic gameplay right. They didn't even get combat right with all the click lag issues where animations interfered with CDs.
It's only failiure was asking for a subscription. Although, that was a pretty big one. I quit before month 1 for this reason, just not enough long term content to justify it other than levelling. It had it's problems and wasn't very original gameplay wise, but when it was good, it was pretty damn good.
However, I'll finish the story once it's f2p.
Last edited by Centerra; 2012-10-08 at 05:52 AM.
I miss holidays to Darnassus with lvl12 Gamon :'(
Expectations are simple persons own imaginations and hypes of things. And only very few games ever reached or overcapped my expectations. Nevertheless many of them are very good and fun to play :/
Originally Posted by Bashiok
1) China pays Blizzard for the rights to allow WoW to be played in China. This is funneled thru a company called NetEase. I think it's around $50mil per yer. So NO, not every game or company can sell it's product in China, especially on the open market, of which, I think in China, there is virtually none.
2) gamers there actually do not pay for the game. They don't pay for expansions either. They pay for time cards which are pay by the hour, and costs much less per month than the typical NA/EU user
3) A chinese customer only has to log in once and use an hour or so of game time every 6 months to be counted as a paying customer.
Thus, I think it is very clear that Blizzard can and does "pad" it's numbers with China. Is this wrong or evil of Blizzard to do this? No, not really, it is what it is. China is a good MMO market. The beauty of it for Blizzard is that it is essentially a pure profit market for them. China just pays them the money for the rights to play the game. Blizzard doesn't have to run and pay upkeep on servers, have to deal with server maintenence, pay people to run all of those blade servers etc... Pure profit.
But again, not every company can and does release their game in China. Thus by your words, it would be completely retarded to think they can.
---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 12:53 PM ----------
Looking at their 3month and year conference call investor statements we see this clearly.
94% of WoW's income comes from the NA/EU market, where only 6% comes from the Asia/Pacific market.
I'm not lying look it up.
Thus more than half of Blizzards gaming population comes from 6% of it's income.
And again, as per my above statement, this is a decent business model for Blizzard because they don't have to do anything. China runs everything and pays Blizzard around $50mil per year to let them play the game. Pretty sweet deal for Blizzard.
Last edited by anyaka21; 2012-10-11 at 12:56 PM.
I'm still quite worked up about TOR's decision to not include any sandbox elements, meaningful world PvP, or anything and made it into pretty much a generic, less polished wow clone. The only major things that attract my attention are warzone bolster mechanics and huttball.
Dear god. I can't believe this thread is still here. Its like the anti menorah. We hoped it hoped it would burn out after a few days but the derp just keeps burning.
This thread is either subjective measures of "success" or objective measures that can not be supported with concrete evidence.
Why is this still going?
Level 85 (WoW) Rogue, Mage, Priest, Hunter, Warlock, Warrior, Death Knight, Paladin, Druid, Shaman
Level 80 (GW2) Thief
Level 60 (NWO) Rogue, (Rift) Rogue,
Level 50 (Swtor) Agent, Warrior, Knight, Inquisitor, Trooper, Consular, Smuggler, Hunter
15/15 Battleframes (Firefall)
Again, compared to flops like Tabula Rasa, APB, or even EA's last "flagship" mumorpuger, Warhammer Online... TOR isn't actually doing that bad. BioWare just made a number of boneheaded design decisions which caused serious customer retention issues. The only real "failure" here was EA's unrealistic expectations and BioWare's development mismanagement.
EA wants WoW 2.0 but I doubt that even an actual WoW 2.0 would have anywhere near as much success as the first one did.
---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 09:16 AM ----------