Thread: Low Dps

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  1. #1

    Low Dps

    Is it me or is rogue dps in pve situations really low?

  2. #2
    I've noticed the same thing, and I can for the life of me not find the cause for it.

    - I can only pull about 30k dps, MAYBE 40k if I pop EVERYTHING.
    - I've reached the ilvl 440, making me capable of doing HC dungeons.
    - While my stats aren't perfectly forged, I've at least made an effort to cap Expertise and Hit.

    The only problem I can think of is that I still have my legendary off-hand and not a 440+ ilvl counterpart to my main-hand. But nonetheless, could that alone really answer for the missing 20-30k dps I should be able to pull?

  3. #3
    My dps dropped when I hit lvl 90. During the week while levling, my dps was alot higher. Whats even more interesting, none of my gear has really changed from lvl 88 to lvl 90. I can barely do 20k single target now.

  4. #4
    Dps is going to be low for a while. i have some good gear on my rogue (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...s/Susth/simple)
    I only pull between 38-44k on single target. cleave is 60k+
    I wouldnt worry about your dps too much until you get some gear.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by AlpoplA View Post
    My dps dropped when I hit lvl 90. During the week while levling, my dps was alot higher. Whats even more interesting, none of my gear has really changed from lvl 88 to lvl 90. I can barely do 20k single target now.
    That goes for everyone, I think.
    I'm not kidding when I say I, at level 85, did double/triple the dps I am doing at level 90.

  6. #6
    It's not that rogue DPS is low, it's that DPS and DPS requirements on the whole are low right now compared to T13H and the expectation of "but I leveled 5 times and T14H BiS does 100k". The good lich over in Scholo can be done with a 20k tank and ~25-30k per DPS without crying for the wave of incoming death.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    It's not that rogue DPS is low, it's that DPS and DPS requirements on the whole are low right now compared to T13H and the expectation of "but I leveled 5 times and T14H BiS does 100k". The good lich over in Scholo can be done with a 20k tank and ~25-30k per DPS without crying for the wave of incoming death.
    I'd be fine with that, if it wasn't for the fact that dps seems incredibly imbalanced right now. Going back to the shaman friend of mine; His rotational dps was about two times that of mine. His burst dps was about 3 times that of mine. His AOE was about 3 times that of my dungeon party combined(due to Ascendance). We both have somewhat similar item levels, so the problem can neither be scaling of enemies/characters nor intentional weakness; It's just class design. We're incredibly far behind due to the nature of our scaling mechanics and the lack of proper gear. Meanwhile, other classes seem to have been spared the majority of pain by design, or have mechanics that simply bypass their innate weakness.

    In our party, I was consistently doing about 25-30k, while the shammy would consistently do about 50-60k. Even if what you say is true; that we do not need much more than that, it still creates a somewhat bad raid-environment to have a couple of people doing immense amounts of damage, while the remaining ones need to be stacked together to even count as one of the top dps'ers.

  8. #8
    I do over 40k single target as sub at ilvl 456. When people are saying that best in slot gear is ~63 something thousand this doesn't seem too far off. Weapon DPS explodes as ilvl goes up, which means if you aren't in 463 weapons you need to get some immediately. I went from 30k to 40k just by upgrading my weapons from 440 quest items to 463 drops.

    Also realize that if you're judging DPS based on numbers, most heroic fights have gimmicks that do not fit rogues at all. Even as combat our AoE is a joke compared to several other specs who will do way more DPS than they are capable of because the fight involves damage boosts/adds/lots of melee down time/etc.

    Hell, half of the time the tank is top DPS in heroics because most tank specs have absolutely absurd AoE. Have a blood DK doing 70k DPS and also outhealing the healer and complaining that his party is a bunch of noobs when in fact his spec is just absurd. I would wait until you get into raids where people can't just stand in one spot, blow their cooldowns at the same time, and chain lightning their way to 100k DPS because the fight is over in 45 seconds before you reroll.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2012-09-29 at 03:14 AM.
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  9. #9
    Have you guys tried Assassination?

    My gear isn't that great and I'm still using the legendaries. Yet on single target bosses in heroics I can easily pull 45k+. AoE is currently completely broken as well. Item level 441, T13 heroic helmet, chest and legendary daggers.
    Last edited by Bovan; 2012-09-29 at 03:22 AM.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise (Eternity), Bolt, Frostfang, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Incinerator, ascended medium armor, Champion Legionnaire.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    Have you guys tried Assassination?

    My gear isn't that great and I'm still using the legendaries. Yet on single target bosses in heroics I can easily pull 45k+. AoE is currently completely broken as well. Item level 441, T13 heroic helmet, chest and legendary daggers.
    The legendaries still give Assassination a minor boost in damage, from my experience. I'm main'ing Assassination at the moment, and I've broken up the legendaries(using the off-hand and a 450 dagger). As mentioned, I'm struggling to get far above 30k.

    AOE seems like a complete no-go as Assassination. Assuming you've already started your single target rotation, spending energy on more than 2ish FOK's will likely result in complete energy starvation, causing your AOE output to cease momentarily and your single target rotation to fall apart afterwards.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    The legendaries still give Assassination a minor boost in damage, from my experience. I'm main'ing Assassination at the moment, and I've broken up the legendaries(using the off-hand and a 450 dagger). As mentioned, I'm struggling to get far above 30k.

    AOE seems like a complete no-go as Assassination. Assuming you've already started your single target rotation, spending energy on more than 2ish FOK's will likely result in complete energy starvation, causing your AOE output to cease momentarily and your single target rotation to fall apart afterwards.
    Only reason I still use the legendaries is because I only have one 450 dagger. Without having done any math, I think it's better to keep them as a pair instead.

    The AoE damage as Assassination is absolutely insane though. Sure your single target needs a few seconds to build back up, but the AoE damage you do is well worth it. On certain trash packs like the monk at the start of the Shado-Pan Monastery I'm pulling something in the lines of 150k DPS. I can't manage that in single target damage. Getting similar results on single bosses who summon lots of adds like the final boss in Scholomance. Spamming Fan of Knives is well worth the single target damage loss of letting Rupture or something fall off.

    I don't know. These are my results and this seems to be working the best. I literally just upgraded a few things to heroic gear so the numbers I wrote in my previous post were from before 2 or 3 upgrades, but hey here is my armory.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Bovan/advanced
    Haven't tried anything since the upgrades to be honest. Too tired to continue queuing for heroics.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise (Eternity), Bolt, Frostfang, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Incinerator, ascended medium armor, Champion Legionnaire.

  12. #12
    Just my 2 cents:

    Ive been running direbrew and im ilvl 330+ but not quite 340 for heroics. I have gone up against EVERY class except monk that has similar ilvl on direbrew. And I am 20k behind. A mage and warrior were 45k+ while i with AR topped at 30 and then fell down further. Im unfortunately not the best combat rogue, but I used to top charts pre 5.0.4 and It hasnt changed ALL that much.

  13. #13
    In 453 combat I'm also running 40k+ on single target sustained. And yes, heroic bosses are NOT melee friendly, and for the most part are even worse for rogues.

    On a sidenote, I got a gimpy axesassination setup going to run 25k DPS this last run on single target. Shuriken toss all the way! Never laughed so hard in my life.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    In 453 combat I'm also running 40k+ on single target sustained. And yes, heroic bosses are NOT melee friendly, and for the most part are even worse for rogues.

    On a sidenote, I got a gimpy axesassination setup going to run 25k DPS this last run on single target. Shuriken toss all the way! Never laughed so hard in my life.
    Don't use axes or you'll lose the Assassin's Resolve bonus of 20% extra damage.

    That's one of the things I want to try, an assassination spec using Shuriken Toss as main combo builder. Since most of our damage comes from poisons and shuriken toss at least allows us to press buttons time to time. We'd be losing blindside procs though.

    EDIT : I did one Corin run. Warlock and Elemental Shaman beat me by 8-12k DPS. They had slighty higher iLevel though, but I'm at 445 with good reforging and some enchanting (Since I'm an enchanter myself)
    Shadow Walk : Significantly increases Stealth effectiveness for 6 sec, but causes Stealth to be nerfed to justify its usage. In addition, it uses old Enveloping Shadows icon and has no sound, animation or spell effect to show that the skill is actually doing something.

  15. #15
    Oh god, it's not like I thought using an axe was a GOOD idea, I got caught in assassination after a 20 mob pull for a boss without time to swap back to combat, and I only had 1 dagger.

    I wouldn't take much of this horribly seriously. We'll see how we fare come normal modes Tuesday.

  16. #16
    I'm still going to give it a try...but I'm a bit lazy to go to SW to respec out of subtlety (which is my secondary) to try this.

    I really dislike assassination.
    Shadow Walk : Significantly increases Stealth effectiveness for 6 sec, but causes Stealth to be nerfed to justify its usage. In addition, it uses old Enveloping Shadows icon and has no sound, animation or spell effect to show that the skill is actually doing something.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlpoplA View Post
    My dps dropped when I hit lvl 90. During the week while levling, my dps was alot higher. Whats even more interesting, none of my gear has really changed from lvl 88 to lvl 90. I can barely do 20k single target now.
    Are you hit / exp capped? The scaling means you need a lot more exp and hit to get 7.5% - Also, rogues scale better than most and to sum up the other 10 threads, start of mop rogue = okay - end of mop rogue = general beast

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutix View Post
    Are you hit / exp capped? The scaling means you need a lot more exp and hit to get 7.5% - Also, rogues scale better than most and to sum up the other 10 threads, start of mop rogue = okay - end of mop rogue = general beast
    You don't need 7.5% for heroic dungeons because they aren't boss level.

    Honestly, we seem low but I think mechanics have a lot to do with that. There is also potentially a buff issue as we pretty much do need every single buff/debuff except spell haste which you aren't likely to get in a 5 man but the mage/lock who doesn't benefit from quite a few buff/debuffs can more easily have all of theirs. I am only at 252 or so equipped (416 trinket still though I do have epic tier gloves), and we definitely scaled quite well from normal mode epics to heroic epics on simc so it should get better. Sub doesn't seem to be putting out as much in dungeons either due to HAT not procing quickly enough due to everyone having low crit which should be fine in a raid with 24 others proccing it instead of 4.

    I think my main concern is actually going to be mechanic related dps losses. I do think we are too low on tank and spank from what I've seen, but it isn't too bad. I'm getting completely murdered by ranged dps on quite a few heroic bosses that are rather melee unfriendly, and history tells us that more often than not, melee get screwed by mechanics harder than ranged so the fact that we aren't too far behind on tank and spank doesn't really give me much confidence.

  19. #19
    I can't stand playing assassination atm, it seems like it takes ages to kill mobs and because of that I take tons of damage and since I've never played combat I feel like I'm at a dead end, its either play 1 where I feel useless or play the other where I am useless because I don't know what I'm doing.

    Energy regen was fine before, why exactly did they need to change it again?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by tylenol View Post
    I can't stand playing assassination atm, it seems like it takes ages to kill mobs and because of that I take tons of damage and since I've never played combat I feel like I'm at a dead end, its either play 1 where I feel useless or play the other where I am useless because I don't know what I'm doing.

    Energy regen was fine before, why exactly did they need to change it again?
    It didn't change at all. There's a natural progression curve over the course of a gear/level set; if at level 1 you gain haste, you get LOTS of energy. At level 2, that same haste is less effective. At 40, it's a LOT less effective than it was at 1, but you now have access to new gear with more haste... boosting you up to the same level you felt as a level 1 with 5 haste rating. Etc. etc.... when you go from end-game gear to entry-game gear, your haste is low. If it wasn't, we'd be a fully GCD capped class as of early cata, with no exceptions, and we'd either be rebalanced or do everything we could to shed haste because we'd be at like 870%...

    Once you're in T16(?)H gear, it'll feel just about like T13H did a week ago.

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