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  1. #1

    [Elemental] - Mogu'shan Vaults First Impressions

    So, my guild just got out of normal mode Mogu'shan and I thought I'd give my first impressions of the raid for Elemental and also ask for others to give the same.

    My guild killed the first 3 bosses and wiped in final phase of Spirit Kings so other raiders can see it tomorrow, so I'll give my impressions on those bosses I've done

    The Stone Guard

    This fight I both hated and loved. I ran the following set up

    Glyphs : Flame Shock, Telluric Currents, Unleashed Lightning
    DPS Talents: Echo of the Elements, Primal Elementalist

    I ran this set up because if you spam CL on only 2 targets your mana drops. I took Telluric Currents to mean when I had to move out of things I could regen much more mana on the move, and also if I was oom I could get back to respectable mana quickly. Popping Thunderstorm if in melee range and on the move helped with mana too.

    Minus the mana issues I found this fight was really good for Ele. I ran Echo because so much of my DPS came from CL spam and I ran Primal Elementalist because I was 1 - Spamming CL and 2 - It meant I didn't have to cast Elemental Blast meaning I could cast LB/CL more to control my mana better (at least they have SOME mana regen, unlike EB which is a flat mana loss).

    Our movement is really useful on this fight, as well as our survivability (Nature's Guardian is so strong on this fight). In the end I pulled 62.5k DPS and was 5th on the meters in my 25 man guild, behind the Prot Tank (who had two mobs on him the whole fight), one of the mages and both rogues (Blade Flurry ftw?). I definitely think this is a very, very good fight for us.

    Feng the Accursed

    On this fight I ran

    Glyphs : Flame Shock, Telluric Currents, Spiritwalker's Grace
    DPS Talents: Echo of the Elements, Primal Elementalist

    Theres very little movement on this fight, SWG is more than enough to cover it unless you get very unlucky in the fire phase. Because of this Unleashed Lightning isn't needed. I took SWG glyph because I was pre-using the 4p Resto t13 bonus - yes, it still works. Also because of the Resto t13 bonus I didn't take EM because it is making you GCD capped and you actually spend time unable to cast. I took Primal Elementalist because the burst capabilities of an Elemental Shaman with PE, Echo, 30% Haste from 4p bonus and Skull Banner is insane. I was topping out at 180-190k DPS, and stayed well above 100k DPS for most of the first phase.

    I really enjoyed this fight, and I'd say our numbers are certainly competitive. My numbers ranged fairly largely by attempt. I died when the boss was at 8% on our kill but before I died I was at 55k DPS and I was around the middle of the raid, with the top dps being at 61k and the bottom being at 48.8k. For ranged DPS its probably as close to a tank and spank Patchwerk fight as you are going to get - on Normal. Its not on HC mode because of the shield phase, but thats for another time. Movement is almost non-existant on this fight. The only time you ever have to move is if you get Wildfire Spark in the fire phase or Arcane Resonance in the Arcane phase. SWG will be up for both phases once so unless you get unlucky SWG is more than enough to cover the movement on this fight, which I liked, but did mean we lost out on our two greatest strengths - no Chain Lightning use and no high mobility.

    Gara'jal the Spiritbinder

    On this fight I ran

    Glyphs : Flame Shock, Unleashed Lightning, Chain Lightning
    DPS Talents: Echo of the Elements, Primal Elementalist

    I ran with Echo for the AoE DPS in the Spirit World, I ran Primal Elementalist because of the 10% bonus crit and haste the buff gives and the fact that I was on Spirit World duty so was only out in the normal realm for like 40% of the fight. My guild got lucky and the adds in the Spirit World spawned in clumps fairly often so I was able to utterly melt them.

    If you take Ancestral Guidance as an Elemental Shaman and go into the Spirit World you will give your team a TONNE of healing, its incredibly strong. I loved this fight myself. My favourate fight in the instance I think, though it was a little easy. The 20% Frenzy phase was nothing. We hit that, popped BL, stopped going into the Spirit World (we had super RNG and hit 20% with ZERO adds up in the spirit realm) and no-one went below 90% hp for the rest of the fight. I look forward to seeing this fight on HC for sure. Not much else to say.

    And you guys?

    How did you find the first day of raiding? Or second if your from the US. And do you have any nice tips for any of the fights you've done?


  2. #2
    We only killed Stone Guard and Feng tonight (10 men).

    Stone Guard

    Same setup except that I picked EB which is not the best choice for this fight.
    Unleashed lightning and Telluric currents are a must if you want to be able to CL for the entire fight.
    Keep FS up on the 2 active quillen dogs (?) to maximize Lava Surge procs.

    Feng

    Took 7 attempts to kill him. At first I ran with Ancestral Guidance but I find that it doesn't synergize well, during phase 1 when you're in the buble you don't need it and when you're not you have 75% chance to miss, but it's nice for phase 2 and 3. I tried switching to HTT but turns out it only heals your group and not the entire raid, it seems to be a bug since mass rez does the exact same thing (at least on EU servers). So stay the f" away from it until it's fixed.
    Our healers were struggling to keep us alive at the beginning of phase 3 so I off-healed a lot and I think many of will have to do the same until we get some better gear.

    Overall Elemental is very strong, we've got a competitive DPS (both mono target and multi target, both burst and sustained) and awesome assit heal and utility.

    Not to mention we're baws for challenge mode ! Enjoy guys !

  3. #3
    how much dps were you guys doing when doing CL? I just kept FS up all the time, didn't use any CL, were still topping the meters tho.

  4. #4
    Stone Guard:

    same glyph and talent setup as you Unde. definitely very solid fight for eleshammies, but the mana issues without TC glyph are pretty insane. TSing every time I got the opportunity to hit both dogs.

    To the talent choices: For us, the fight was to be about 6:30 to 7 minutes long, I dont care if EB is mathematically superior on paper, this fight definitely favored PE for me by long shot. I finished first at 61k or so on Skada (10man, no CoE for second expansion in a row QQ), but for some reason, WoL didnt count my PFE (no clue why, I wasnt the one uploading tho, maybe they didnt update their wol tool?) I run with Astral Shift for unwanted overloads, but might give the NG a try

    Feng:

    Well we didnt kill it. Our tanks are poorly managing the extra skills and we take lots of unnecessary damage and healers are going OOM by the start of p3. The resonance is insane, too. It definitely had a delay on beta on first tick, but now it just seems like almost instant tick. We tried several strategies how to handle it and we will probably try to spread around the boss in small groups.

    I ran Echo and PE because I had to watch what everone was doing wrong (being RL sucks sometimes) and didnt really want to hinder my performance by having to pay attention to yet another short CD ability. I might pick EB tonight. I was more thinking about HTT and AG tho to help our healers. I prefer AG definitely, but during Epicenter, its useless and during p2, I usually dont have CDs for it when its needed. HTT might help more.

    That said, most of the tries, I was still top dps. But our dps squad is pretty even, only the slightly undergeared SP was lagging behind a bit, lets hope he picks the rest of his gear today.

    Im looking forward to Garajal. Ima gonna top da meters, mon!

  5. #5
    Field Marshal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undefetter View Post
    (at least they have SOME mana regen, unlike EB which is a flat mana loss).
    EB costs 0 mana and hits much more then CL on two targets

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomikadzi View Post
    EB costs 0 mana and hits much more then CL on two targets
    Yes your right about the CL part, but I still think Primal Elementalist is the better option because the Primal Fire Ele can put his DoT up on both targets. You may be right though, I was thinking that EB has a mana cost. I was using EB for the first few attempts and didn't like it mana wise, much prefered Primal Ele though because it puts less of your damage on your own spells and more on the Elemental meaning you suffer less from mana. I might give it another go next week on HC mode though, will see.


  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undefetter View Post
    Yes your right about the CL part, but I still think Primal Elementalist is the better option because the Primal Fire Ele can put his DoT up on both targets. You may be right though, I was thinking that EB has a mana cost. I was using EB for the first few attempts and didn't like it mana wise, much prefered Primal Ele though because it puts less of your damage on your own spells and more on the Elemental meaning you suffer less from mana. I might give it another go next week on HC mode though, will see.
    We forgot to log that fight and I died like a slacker so can't say about my DPS there.
    I tried Flame Shock/Thunder/Telluric Currents + Echo/EB. Lowered TS CD is pretty good since CL costs too much mana and even on 2 (sometimes 3) targets it has more DPS then singe LB hit. TS - obvious.

    We managed to kill 4/6 bosses yesterday and I got 2x rank 1 and 1x rank 2.
    On every boss I used Echo of elements and Elemental blast

    Feng the Accursed

    Unleashed Lightning(could probably go w/o it)/Flame Shock. No comments
    DPS - almost 70k

    Gara'jal the Spiritbinder

    Flame Shock. FET glyph should fit this fight since there's 5 min berserk: 2 uses with total uptime 72 secs instead of 60
    I didn't go into spirit realm, just stood still in tunneled boss like mad. Result - 68.5k DPS

    Spirit Kings
    Flame Shock + Unleashed Lightning + Chain Lightning (for killing raidmates while insanity)

    I failed again on this boss (dem Power Auras weren't updated yet) and realised that I don't have lightning shield on me when 2nd boss was almost dead. Result - 60.8k DPS

  8. #8
    Hi guys,
    *
    First things first I just wanna say the Elemental guide is pretty awesome and this report too Btw. Got all the answers I needed there except one ;-)
    *
    I take advantage of this post cause you were talkin about that earlier.
    *
    Just wonderning if you guys with the EP talent are controlling directly the pets? Putting Dot, and so on directly with pet's command cause until now I even didn't notice this bar (thx bartender) thus the pet was just dealing damage without my help.
    *
    Thank you guy

  9. #9
    The Patient Lensir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undefetter View Post
    Minus the mana issues I found this fight was really good for Ele. I ran Echo because so much of my DPS came from CL spam and I ran Primal Elementalist because I was 1 - Spamming CL and 2 - It meant I didn't have to cast Elemental Blast meaning I could cast LB/CL more to control my mana better (at least they have SOME mana regen, unlike EB which is a flat mana loss).
    My tip is: learn your spellbook, before posting wrong assumptions.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Pietrzyk View Post
    My tip is: learn your spellbook, before posting wrong assumptions.
    1 - It used to cost mana

    2 - Even if it doesn't directly cost mana, its still not as mana efficient as casting a Telluric Currents Lightning Bolt. From my tries it seemed Primal Elementalist was doing more DPS than Elemental Blast as well because of the duration of the fight. Mana seemed much nicer spamming CL then using LB whenever I had to move than when I was using CL and putting EBs in there. I said I'd try it again next week though, might just have been because I was more used too the fight in the end. I dunno.

    This thread was a first impressions thing, so yeah even if my reasons for my impressions were wrong, it still felt that way (that mana was worse with EB than PE). If other people have different impressions then thats good to share, and hence I made this thread. This isn't meant to be a guide or anything.


  11. #11
    So far my guild is 4/6 25 man. I have been running EB with the exception of the Gara'jal fight. After reading Undefetter's post I probably should have done CL on Stone Guard I chose to multi dot as I was able. I didn't mess with glyphs and just ran FS,CL,Unleashed. I will definitely fine tune things more but as I have no beta experience this setup felt like the best for me at the time.

    DPS has been decent so far with the following

    Stone Guard = 59.2K

    Feng = 54.6K

    Gara'jal = 42.2K as PE with EM.

    Spirit Kings = 50.7K

    I'm torn as to if I should drop Unleashed for Feng because P3 dps is fairly important and losing cast due to movement in a dps critical phase seems like a gamble. I was surprised when I went with PE how boring it felt. I am so use to using EB it felt like there was a hole in my rotation.

    http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/9206/

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...repid/advanced (Belt,Cloak,Shield,Neck were equipped post raid)

    Overall though I've enjoyed the dynamics of the fights and as an opening raid tier it gives me great hope that the encounters will continue to be unique and challenging.
    Last edited by Intrepid1; 2012-10-04 at 04:35 PM.

  12. #12
    So far my guilds impression is that Ele's are under powered and not really worth taking if there is another dps class available.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomikadzi View Post
    Gara'jal the Spiritbinder
    Flame Shock. FET glyph should fit this fight since there's 5 min berserk: 2 uses with total uptime 72 secs instead of 60
    The beserk time is actually 6 minutes, so Fire Elemental Glyph is a dps loss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoodie View Post
    So far my guilds impression is that Ele's are under powered and not really worth taking if there is another dps class available.
    Any statements to back that comment up?

  14. #14
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EruptorNZ View Post
    Any statements to back that comment up?
    In fact, if you check WoL, there's an Elemental in the Top 40 of 3/6 fights in Mogu'shan Vaults on 25N, and in the top 10 on two of those. Two of the 6 fights have Elemental in the top 40 on 10N.

    It's just one raid, and one week's data (and no heroic data till next week), but what little evidence we do have is certainly NOT suggesting Elemental is overpowered.

  15. #15
    The Patient
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    Elemental is fine at the moment. I assume scaling put us back.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoodie View Post
    So far my guilds impression is that Ele's are under powered and not really worth taking if there is another dps class available.
    You have bad eles then.

  17. #17
    I think AG can really be powerful on Garajal in 25m, but was not worth it on 10m. Was easier for the healer to just go in and quickly push up the other 2 players so they could maintain uptime on the boss. And on the first boss it was a fun personal challenge to atch a CL at the right time when the dogs were near each other during taunts.

    In general ele feels pretty solid for me. Personal dmg CD is back, dps while moving, amazing burst if needed, great cleave, really strong off heals, and dps is actually competitive.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Ituhippi View Post
    You have bad eles then.

    you're a bad troll


    My statement is simply that if there is a warlock and a ele and one spot in the raid left the lock is getting it 9/10. Not saying Ele's are underpowered / overpowered just stating my personal experience.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-05 at 02:27 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by SenSayNyu View Post
    Elemental is fine at the moment. I assume scaling put us back.
    I think we will be much better once we get into full tier gear, so I think things will get better as time progresses. It'll just be a struggle early on (which seems like deja vu to me).

  19. #19
    Stood in the Fire Ekkoeu's Avatar
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    Nice thread Undefetter.

    The tips for Telluric Currents on Stone Guard and Ancestral Guidance on Garajal are great. I personally go with Elemental Blast though; I find it doesn't muddy my rotation up that much and it does a nice amount of damage as well as giving a temporary buff.

    I completely forgot about the 4pc t13, suprised it's still works. I suppose you can just set up a macro to switch between the countdown timer.

  20. #20
    Dreadlord zenga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekkoeu View Post
    I completely forgot about the 4pc t13, suprised it's still works. I suppose you can just set up a macro to switch between the countdown timer.
    I was disenchanting my old gear when i realised that i should 've kept the resto set. Was down to 1 piece of resto gear left, had a token laying around that I used to get me a 2nd, and pretty sure if I was to go farm the other 2 pieces they'll fix it the next day. Can smash myself that I forgot about it when I was de'ing.

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