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  1. #1
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    [Balance] T14H BiS list

    This is the current BiS list for boomkins in T14H gear (all raids). Numbers and gearset have been evaluated using WrathCalcs (http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t114017-balance_wrathcalcs/), and other spreadsheets/simulations may vary. This BiS list was last updated on 13/12/12.

    *note*: please see THIS POST (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post19367488) for a major update to the T14H BiS list.


    OVERALL STATS: 16647 Int, 24534 Spell power, 6105 Haste, 9836 Crit, 1361 Mastery, 5108 Hit

    DPS: 108153.80


    Just a few tid-bits:


    • The Potent Vermilion Onyx used in the pants is because 1 int > 2 crit for around 60 int, then it dips below. Since we have way too much spirit on our gear overall, it's smarter to put the int/crit gem in the red socket instead of crit/exp, as the extra hit is unavoidable at this point. Extra hit becomes haste anyway, which is significantly below crit.
    • Kri'tak with the prismatic socket, which is now confirmed via Eye of the Black Prince, is about 500 DPS ahead of Regail's because of the 320 crit you can get for free.
    • The off-piece helm Hood of Stilled Winds was swapped for Fear-Blackened Leggings to maximise crit on each piece. The legs provide another socket, which is another opportunity for more crit.
    • This list was evaluated without any upgrades. The items will not change. Gems/reforges will most likely be the only difference, and you'll need to assess that yourself as you upgrade pieces.
    • Nature's Vigil is underrated on paper. In reality, you stack it best with other cooldowns and it pulls ahead of Heart of the Wild or Dream of Cenarius.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2012-12-21 at 11:11 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    This is completely up to discussion, as I've only been fiddling with this for a day now. I posted the over at EJ, but I thought I'd post it here as well to get your guys' input.



    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Boomkin T14H BiS: http://www.wowhead.com/profile=34913638

    --------------------------------------------------------------



    Basically there's a few gear choices that are a little different to what you'd think - like hat being off-piece and not resto, and using a couple of int/haste gems in red sockets. This profile reaches 8089 haste (right on the breakpoint) and 5105 hit (5 over cap), so in terms of wasted stats, this setup has virtually none. The only possible way you could improve the DPS beyond this would be to either: a) remove some mastery pieces or, b) turn some 502 -> 509 but run the risk of wasted stats or more mastery. I don't think it's possible to do either of these (or a combination) and still go higher than 108023.37 DPS.

    *note: all numbers and gear have been evaluated through WrathCalcs. Using SimCraft/Rawr or any other evaluating tool will most likely give you different numbers, so for comparisons sake, just use WrathCalcs when wanting to make a suggestion.

    Also, you have to be signed into Wowhead to see the profile, it's a bit odd but oh well.

    If you can personally find a better DPS output through WrathCalcs with a different set-up, post and I'll check it out. For this build, best DPS talents are Incarnation and Dream of Cenarius by quite large margins.
    Link Doesn't work

  3. #3
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    You have to be signed into Wowhead to see the profile.

  4. #4
    I also had to disable AdBlock (firefox) to see it. Not sure why would they change their website to make it unusable for people who don't like ads...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    I also had to disable AdBlock (firefox) to see it. Not sure why would they change their website to make it unusable for people who don't like ads...
    Because they can't keep the website up if people don't view the ads. It's not that hard to figure out.

  6. #6
    High Overlord Ryuuki's Avatar
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    Perhaps you could put the items in the compare tool as we pretty much know what best gems/chant are. That way everyone can contribute (like me) in this discussion without having make a Wowhead account.

  7. #7
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Updated first post: got rid of the Wowhead link and instead tabulated the results. Hopefully it's still easy to read/critique.

  8. #8
    Why Burning Meta over Revitalizing (Spirit/Crit Effect)? If Crit gems are preferred to Int gems, I would think it'd be better to Reforge more Hit/Spirit off of gear. Is this because Crit is already reforged to on the bulk of gear? Will this differ based on individual stat weighting such that some will favor Revitalizing even if it gains them Haste rather than Crit?

  9. #9
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Why Burning Meta over Revitalizing (Spirit/Crit Effect)? If Crit gems are preferred to Int gems, I would think it'd be better to Reforge more Hit/Spirit off of gear. Is this because Crit is already reforged to on the bulk of gear? Will this differ based on individual stat weighting such that some will favor Revitalizing even if it gains them Haste rather than Crit?
    I tried switching in the Revitalising meta, but I couldn't find a reforging situation that would end up as well as this one did. The 432 Spirit is only better than the 216 Int if you can get down to a very low amount over the hit cap, and I couldn't find a way to do that. When I swapped in the Revitalising meta and optimised, the best I got was 107938.33 DPS (12 over haste breakpoint, 9 over hit cap). So it's close, but it's not the best. And yes, most of the reforging done is out of spirit, so adding more spirit on top just causes problems.

    The way I've been treating the stat weights is by saying crit = haste = spirit, because we reforge in and out of the three depending on what we need. If you need more spirit to hit the cap, then you can take some out of haste (if you're over the nearest breakpoint), or out of crit otherwise. Same with hitting the haste breakpoints. We're basically just trying to turn additional crit in haste and spirit until we reach the caps, and after that we want to maximise crit. That's why reforging out of mastery is the first thing to be done when reforging gear. I'm not sure what your second question's asking.

    But you are right, the crit gems are favoured over the int gems, and purely looking at the gems themselves, revitalising > burning meta in terms of potential DPS. Reforging scenarios obscure how useful the revitalising gem really is, since it deals with a secondary stat. While gearing up and not at the BiS level, it's unclear whether or not the revitalising meta is better, you'd have to check on WrathCalcs with your character's battle.net import.

  10. #10
    Nice, thanks for the info. I think you've hit everything I was looking for! It seems like it's going to generally be easier to just stick to Burning and go from there for main spec Balance. I'm likely to be maining Resto, so it's just nice to know that Revitalizing isn't a clearly weaker option and that it depends on gear set.

  11. #11
    Just copying this over to be the T14H profile on Wrathcalcs for the next version and noticed a slight issue:

    Haste breakpoint is 8089.

    Total Haste

    Helm: 817 base.
    Neck: 0 base, 220 reforged.
    Shoulders: 0.
    Cloak: 520 base.
    Chest: 750 base, 180 bonus.
    Bracers: 487 base.
    Gloves: 733 base, 170 enchant.
    Belt: 0 base, 230 reforged.
    Legs: 880 base, 160 gem.
    Boots: 720 base, 160 gem, 175 enchant.
    Ring 1: 180 reforged.
    Ring 2: 587 base.
    Trinket 1: 0 base.
    Trinket 2: 731 after reforging.
    MH: 150 reforged.
    OH: 234 reforged.

    That all comes to 8084 haste unless I'm missing something, which is slightly short of the breakpoint? I've swapped one Piercing to Lightning just for quickness sake to put in the version that will be going up shortly. I'm still waiting for the morning caffeine to kick in, so correct me if I've got something out of place here.

  12. #12
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Hey Tec. Yeah I just manually changed your new list into my old one and found a deficit of 5 haste as well. Looking at both spreadsheets side-by-side, they match perfectly in the gear and stat department, except for the little (but oh-so-important) 5 haste, taking it down to 8084.

    I'm playing with your list now to see if I can reduce how much haste is there overall/boost DPS slightly. Edit: I'll fiddle with this more after school.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2012-10-04 at 01:54 PM.

  13. #13
    Field Marshal Shinerr's Avatar
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    So I know this is kind of off topic of BiS, but I have been playing with the stats for pre-raid/some 489 pieces and wondering if it is still worth it to go for the first haste plateau then crit after that or reforge/gem solely for crit since the values are so low at this gear lvl for secondary stats besides hit. I may be completely off, just looking for some guidance until I get closer to BiS.

  14. #14
    Nice one Slippykins. I'll update again once you've had some time to work on it. Cheers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinerr View Post
    So I know this is kind of off topic of BiS, but I have been playing with the stats for pre-raid/some 489 pieces and wondering if it is still worth it to go for the first haste plateau then crit after that or reforge/gem solely for crit since the values are so low at this gear lvl for secondary stats besides hit. I may be completely off, just looking for some guidance until I get closer to BiS.
    Personally (for my own gear), I've found that Wrathcalcs is valuing Haste very slightly higher than Crit until I get to roughly 5400 Haste, at which point Crit starts taking over. This will likely change depending on your exact setup though, so import your gear and have a play around with it.

  15. #15
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Ok, so I did the best I could with the slight change in haste, breaking the previous setup. From your list Tecton I only changed a few things to bring the haste down close to the breakpoint. DPS went from 106932.19 to 106992.85. Negligible, and surprising. Maybe the latest revisions of WrathCalcs reduced our damage by ~1k? Not sure, but the stats haven't changed much.

    Relative to your BiS list on the newest WrathCalcs:

    Pants: int/haste gem replaced with haste/exp
    Boots: int/haste gem replaced with pure crit
    Main-Hand: reforge changed from crit->haste to spr->haste

    This results in 8096 haste (7 over breakpoint), and 5103 hit (3 over cap). This revision shows (by adding marginal stats) that haste (after breakpoint) is ~1.31 DPS and crit is ~2.2 DPS. Quite a big margin, so pulling in the extra haste over the breakpoint resulted in the ~60 DPS change. Regardless, this is basically just semantics now, and I doubt it's possible to reach the 108k DPS mark in the previous build.

    I also tried fiddling with the revitalising gem again, but couldn't make a reforging/gemming scenario get higher (my highest attempt was 106800 DPS). I'm going to caution again that, while the gem is better, practicality says the gear we have can't make it useful.

    Edit: OP now updated with changes. Next revision of WrathCalcs I'll go over the list again to make sure it's still correct.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2012-10-04 at 05:47 PM.

  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Bit off topic, so is reforge hit>haste (to 8089?) >crit >mastery?

    Vexxe of Old School.



    Streaming MOP raids live: (14/14HC 25Man SoO) and WOD Beta (Leveling and raid testing Heoric/Mythic) @ http://www.twitch.tv/vexxee

  17. #17
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xtramuscle View Post
    Bit off topic, so is reforge hit>haste (to 8089?) >crit >mastery?
    Essentially, yeah. Our DPS gets a little boost when we cross a haste breakpoint, and the 8089 breakpoint will be the last one we can reach this tier.

    However, since we reforge in and out of haste, spirit and crit, when looking for gear they should be treated as the same "weight." If I can get a piece with +160 extra spirit and +40 extra crit (assuming I'm at the hit cap already), the extra spirit can be reforged (theoretically) completely into crit, thus in this case, spirit = crit. Same goes for haste.

    So, I think Hamlet put this in his EJ thread, the stat "weights" or "priorities" should be: int >> hit to cap > haste to closest breakpoint > crit > haste > mastery. That might look a little confusing, but it basically says "always reforge out of mastery, get hit capped and as close to the haste breakpoint as you can (must be >= breakpoint), and then dump the rest of your stats into crit."

  18. #18
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Yeah that's what I thought, don't suppose you could list the breakpoints? Im above the 19something one (stupidly low I know) with about 24% crit..

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-05 at 11:43 AM ----------

    As you can probably guess I've not done any calcs myself, but I was under the impression, despite its low ilv (476) the serpant darkmoon card was BIS, are you saying this isnt the case?
    I know this set allows for a minimum amount of stat wastage (extra mastery basically) so that may have something to do with it, but I still believe the dmfc pulls ahead of light of cosmis.

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=79331
    Last edited by xtramuscle; 2012-10-05 at 04:06 PM.

    Vexxe of Old School.



    Streaming MOP raids live: (14/14HC 25Man SoO) and WOD Beta (Leveling and raid testing Heoric/Mythic) @ http://www.twitch.tv/vexxee

  19. #19
    It was BiS until Blizzard went through and hugely upgraded all of the raid drop trinkets.

  20. #20
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Well unless Op linked to old versions, I still honk its ahead of LoC

    Vexxe of Old School.



    Streaming MOP raids live: (14/14HC 25Man SoO) and WOD Beta (Leveling and raid testing Heoric/Mythic) @ http://www.twitch.tv/vexxee

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