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  1. #21
    Hi Slip.

    I have 2 questions for you.

    1: Is this list ranked as BiS in normal aswell?
    2: Im really comfused about which stat to go for right now pre-4set. Haste to breakpoint or all crit?

    I really hope you could help me with my issues.


    Thanks in advance,
    Tjorleif


    PS: If you want to take a look at my armory its: Shorleif - EU Outland - Alliance

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Tjorleif View Post
    Hi Slip.

    I have 2 questions for you.

    1: Is this list ranked as BiS in normal aswell?
    2: Im really comfused about which stat to go for right now pre-4set. Haste to breakpoint or all crit?

    I really hope you could help me with my issues.


    Thanks in advance,
    Tjorleif


    PS: If you want to take a look at my armory its: Shorleif - EU Outland - Alliance
    Normal gear has less stats so if a BiS list is itemised around a stat cap (in this situation a Haste Breakpoint with a safety margin of just a few points) then it won't work. Different gems and reforging also affect the list.

    In my gear, WrathCals suggest to value Haste more. My gemming/reforging (which is a mess) is before seeing that but I cba with this gear :P

  3. #23
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xtramuscle View Post
    Yeah that's what I thought, don't suppose you could list the breakpoints? Im above the 19something one (stupidly low I know) with about 24% crit..

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-05 at 11:43 AM ----------

    As you can probably guess I've not done any calcs myself, but I was under the impression, despite its low ilv (476) the serpant darkmoon card was BIS, are you saying this isnt the case?
    I know this set allows for a minimum amount of stat wastage (extra mastery basically) so that may have something to do with it, but I still believe the dmfc pulls ahead of light of cosmis.

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=79331
    Good question! I didn't think to test the Relic of Yu'lon, since the Darkmoon Card in T11 was great. I swapped in the relic, changed a few gems to reach the haste breakpoint again, and WrathCalcs showed 105339.10 DPS, about 1.6k DPS lower than the current set-up. So I'd have to agree with Tec's argument that it was BiS until the heroic trinkets were buffed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tjorleif View Post
    Hi Slip.

    I have 2 questions for you.

    1: Is this list ranked as BiS in normal aswell?
    2: Im really comfused about which stat to go for right now pre-4set. Haste to breakpoint or all crit?

    I really hope you could help me with my issues.


    Thanks in advance,
    Tjorleif


    PS: If you want to take a look at my armory its: Shorleif - EU Outland - Alliance
    1. This BiS can only cover heroic, normal is a completely different kettle of fish. I would say shooting for the normal versions of this gear would be a good idea, but as someone said before the haste breakpoints will be a bit dodgy to attain with lower secondary stats. I'm not sure if the 8089 haste breakpoint would be reachable with normal T14 gear, but if it is, you'll want to dump as much stats into haste as you can to reach it. If it isn't attainable, we're going to have the issue of when crit is better than haste (since at low haste levels, haste is better), and thus there'll be a soft cap of haste where it becomes less desirable.

    2. For right now, you'll want haste. Haste is better than crit for the moment, even slightly past the 5273 no-T14 haste breakpoint. Past that, you'll need to WrathCalcs your own character and see which is better.

  4. #24
    Thank you so much Slip for your reply! I hope you have a good day!
    By any chance you could make a BiS normal?
    I will get full HC BiS someday, but I'd like to have a normal BiS list aswell so I know what to go for. I do have the darkmoon trinket so if you could calc that one in also.

    Thank you in advance,
    Tjorleif

  5. #25
    Can you explain how that belt is better than the Heroic Stone Guard One? There's no way... I have reason to believe that the Normal Mode Stone Guard belt is better than that one you have listed.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinerr View Post
    So I know this is kind of off topic of BiS, but I have been playing with the stats for pre-raid/some 489 pieces and wondering if it is still worth it to go for the first haste plateau then crit after that or reforge/gem solely for crit since the values are so low at this gear lvl for secondary stats besides hit. I may be completely off, just looking for some guidance until I get closer to BiS.
    I've noticed a rather significant dps boost since gemming/reforging for 5273.

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  7. #27
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhal6 View Post
    Can you explain how that belt is better than the Heroic Stone Guard One? There's no way... I have reason to believe that the Normal Mode Stone Guard belt is better than that one you have listed.
    After the recent change to WrathCalcs and I had to change the set-up, yeah I agree the belt will be a slight upgrade! I like questions like this, really helps to solidify the BiS list. Though, I couldn't find a way to make the normal Stone Guard belt better.

    Edit: I've fiddled with the set-up and made the Stonebound Cinch work with 107042.72 DPS (0 over haste BP, 7 over hit cap). I also tried putting in the revitalizing meta, but couldn't go past 107000.00 DPS. Alongside, I tried switching the current bracers with Bracers of Dark Thoughts but even though I reforged perfectly (right on haste BP and hit cap), WrathCalcs said total DPS was only 106900 DPS. So that one is definitely out of the question.

    I appreciate the feedback though! The more people test out this list and suggest things the better chance we'll have at finding the completely optimal set. I think we're getting rather close, but I'll keep at it. All other suggestions are welcome!

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 10:35 AM ----------

    Another upgrade: changing Kri'tak, Imperial Scepter of the Swarm for Regail's Crackling Dagger results in a 108.26 DPS increase. I was really surprised that a non-"Sha Touched" weapon would beat one with the Crystallized gem in it, but it does.

    Stat changes comparison: Kri'tak vs. Regail's
    Int: +540 vs. +0
    SP: +0 vs. +534
    Mastery: +0 vs. +248
    C/S/H: +0 vs. +92

    Crit/Spirit/Haste are lumped into the same category since they're interchangeable. What we see here is that the raw SP gain on Regail's almost completely matches the raw Int gain from Kri'tak, therefore the Sha-Touched socket is useless. Raw stat gain, including mastery and the blue socket in Regail's, boosts DPS more than the 6 SP that Kri'tak offers, and as such, Regail's is better. Updating OP.

    I added the changes to WrathCalcs from Regail's -> Kri'tak, and got to 107042.72 DPS, like I should. So it is indeed a DPS upgrade over Kri'tak. I also tried the same thing with the 509 staff, but that wasn't as good.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2012-10-09 at 05:44 PM.

  8. #28
    Thanks for showing the Math. The 502 Vaults belt is just amazing because we get 3 sockets.

    I'm glad to see the Dagger topping the list for us - means less competition for weapon when it drops lol.

  9. #29
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    With the recent change to WrathCalcs, DPS went up to 110443.61, after changing the Jade Spirit enchant for Windsong (changing enchants is about a 1k jump, but the other 2k DPS is from changing WrathCalcs).

  10. #30
    Updating this for the new version of Wrathcalcs now, thanks again!

    I can neither confirm nor deny that I just spent ages hunting for a stat difference because I forgot Regail's came in Heroic Elite flavour...

  11. #31
    Dreadlord xtramuscle's Avatar
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    I see the wepaon youve chosen is the HC Elite one, (ilv 516) but does it actually come ahead of the HC *Sha touched weapons* (including their legendary gem?)

    Vexxe of Old School.



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  12. #32
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xtramuscle View Post
    I see the wepaon youve chosen is the HC Elite one, (ilv 516) but does it actually come ahead of the HC *Sha touched weapons* (including their legendary gem?)
    If you scroll a few posts up, you'll see I did a stat comparison on that very topic.

  13. #33
    So the bracers appear to only be available via bmah? Maybe you should make a bis list without that item? My apologies if I'm mistaken.

  14. #34
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sepe View Post
    So the bracers appear to only be available via bmah? Maybe you should make a bis list without that item? My apologies if I'm mistaken.
    Since Wowhead, Wowdb and the us.battle.net site all have this item in the RF, normal and heroic versions, I'm lead to believe it's a drop from Heart of Fear or Terrace of Endless Springs (509 ilvl). Furthermore, since the item is BoE, I would assume it's a trash drop.

    Edit: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/item/86187 confirms it's a BoE trash drop.

  15. #35
    it's a BoE trash drop.
    BoE Trash drops are always non heroic items!!! There is no heroic version, even if you can find it on the internet. No exeptions.

    you have to make a new Best in Slot list, without this item or with the non heroic version, if its still BiS

  16. #36
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post
    BoE Trash drops are always non heroic items!!! There is no heroic version, even if you can find it on the internet. No exeptions.

    you have to make a new Best in Slot list, without this item or with the non heroic version, if its still BiS
    Since it appears on the actual battle.net site as an item (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/item/86996) in the ilvl 509 state, it's probably still there and not a data-mining error. Even though I can't find a loot table where the heroic version is from, it could be exclusively from the BMAH, or somewhere we don't know yet (there could be trash that only spawns on heroic and drops heroic BoP loot).

    As where it drops from is currently unknown, I'm leaving it in until there's sufficient evidence it doesn't exist.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2012-10-14 at 11:05 PM.

  17. #37
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    After some soul-searching and inward discovery, I've decided to omit the Pearlescent Butterfly Wristguards from the BiS list. I'm fairly certain it's just another database blurp where RF/heroic versions of items exist, where in actuality they don't. Good catch, Kropotkin! Thus, I'm updating the BiS list now.

    Edit: edited out gemming changes.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2012-11-05 at 09:22 AM.

  18. #38
    From what i can tell the helm doesnt actually exist? as it isn't listed as drop in the dungeon journal but it is listed on wowhead

    thus possibly making a resto piece best?
    Last edited by Fleuria; 2012-10-19 at 04:17 PM.

  19. #39
    I'd say it's an issue with the dungeon journal. It can be found in the official armory and it also says that the drop location is in HoF.

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/item/89831

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhal6 View Post
    I'm glad to see the Dagger topping the list for us - means less competition for weapon when it drops lol.
    Actually, this dagger will probably be the BiS MH for all classes and specs that can use it (likely even some healers). It's nice that this is only a 108 dps upgrade from the sha-touched mace, however which means we'll have some options.
    Last edited by bl00mie; 2012-10-20 at 12:43 AM.

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