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  1. #121
    Best classes ATM? From a BG perspective:


    Ret doesn't do OMGWTF damage outside of CDs, but they're all but impossible to kill thanks to retarded self healing.

    Mages are still bullshit.

    Haven't seen enough Monks running around at 90 to form an opinion.

    Spriests, Locks, Shammys And Hunters aren't so bad. (Well, from the perspective of a Rogue.)

    Frost DKs are irritating as fuck.

    Druids are pushovers.

    Healers are crazy, but easily blown up inside a Kidney.

    The best, IMHO: Warriors. I've been able to hold my own against every other class, to the point where it's basically "how good is the other guy?". The lone exception has been Warriors. Consistently rape my face off, despite Nerve Strike + Prey on the Weak. Only way I've managed to win these fights is by popping all CDs. (Shadow Blades + Vendetta + Trinket)

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Gaga View Post
    /facepalm
    /facedesk

    Because being strong means having your ass kicked by any warrior, rogue, frost mage, hunter (at least who don't backpeddle) or feral druid. So strong!

    Dks are the same in MoP. I already rerolled warrior.
    If you reroll a warrior you're going to have a bad time. Warriors are the best candidates for nerf bats. Once everyone's in PvP gear and the season is really underway expect massive nerfs to the class and no one else. Because for some reason Blizzard doesn't like warriors.

    Anyways if you were losing to warriors at any point in cata (yes even s9) as a dk then you were doing something wrong. NOW warriors have our cd stacking bullshit comparable to s5 rets that's the most faceroll thing I've ever seen in this game. I WANT a nerf to this and hopefully a major buff to our sustain.

    I feel like Blizzard balances the game around class representation. Rogues had really low rep all of cata so they buffed them out the ass for s11. When their representation went through the roof Blizzard decided to leave them in the dust for MoP. Similarly warrior competitive PvP representation was suffering for the latter half of cata so they buffed them like insanity. Now that we're ridiculously powerful and everyone and their mother is leveling an arms warrior for pvp we're going to get nerfs. The only class this doesn't apply to is mages for some reason.
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  3. #123
    High Overlord calimmacil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trogdora View Post
    To all those saying Rets are overpowered, lets go over some things real quick.

    Here is all main utility Ret Paladins have

    -Bubble
    -BoP
    -Freedom
    -HoS (sacrifice to break sheeps/blinds)
    -WoG
    -Flash of Light (without selfless healer is so weak)
    -Kick
    -H/FoJ/Repentence
    -Wings

    CC's that are generally useless against Rets
    -Snares
    -Roots

    For comparison purposes lets look at one of the most recent FoTM classes, Warrior

    Warrior Utility
    -Fear
    -Intervene
    -Rallying Cry (HP boost)
    -Charge (which also serves as an interrupt)
    -Pummel
    -Ranged Pummel with a silence
    -Heroic Leap
    -AoE Cone Stun
    -Shattering Throw
    -Disarm
    -Enrage (to break fears)
    -Avatar (warrior version of wings)
    -Recklessness
    -Ranged snare
    -War Banners (can be used for extra mobility)

    CC's that are generally useless against warriros
    -Sap
    -Fear
    -Disarm (warrior 2/4set)
    -Purge
    -Silence

    Between the two, which one seems more over powered? Rets are only "OP" as you guys put it every 3-5 minutes when we have Wings/Guardian up. Warriors are OP all the time. Think before you post. Without wings/guardian damage as Ret is extremely underwhelming and is useless for putting up pressure.
    First of, dont pull stuff out of your as$.

    On cc section purge isnt a cc and silence actually works on warriors, if silenced they cant shout, either battle, command or intimidating, much like paladins that if silenced cant use heals but can stil damage.
    Also in pvp if you dont use a weapon chain you are doing it wrong and for warriors its not immunity its just a reduced duration.

    On cd section you say palas are only ''op'' every 3-5 minutes, guess what, warrior cd's are 3-5 minutes (avatar 3m, reck 5m, skull banner 3m)
    and the sustained damage of warriors aint great, its the same as paladins.

    Also, the aoe cone stun and avatar are talents, your wings are not. You also have a ranged snare (burden of guilt) and both are talents, the silence part is a glyph in wich case you sacrifice other really useful stuff (but lets face it casters are ott atm so its mandatory).
    so yeah before you complain learn what the other classes have and if you want to compare classes at least put the talnets on both classes because for some reason you forgot to list your talents (i assume you play a pala) like clemency (double hof, hop, hos), holy avenger (strong talent on 2 m cd), sancitfied wrath (strong in wings) and all of your lvl90 talents wich all of them are 1m cd and less and all of them deal damage AND heal at the same time.
    Also Glyph of Templar's Verdict and Glyph of Word of Glory are good defensive and offensive glyphs.


    ps i do have both a warrior and a pally
    Last edited by calimmacil; 2012-10-05 at 05:58 PM.

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  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    If you reroll a warrior you're going to have a bad time. Warriors are the best candidates for nerf bats. Once everyone's in PvP gear and the season is really underway expect massive nerfs to the class and no one else. Because for some reason Blizzard doesn't like warriors.

    Anyways if you were losing to warriors at any point in cata (yes even s9) as a dk then you were doing something wrong. NOW warriors have our cd stacking bullshit comparable to s5 rets that's the most faceroll thing I've ever seen in this game. I WANT a nerf to this and hopefully a major buff to our sustain.

    I feel like Blizzard balances the game around class representation. Rogues had really low rep all of cata so they buffed them out the ass for s11. When their representation went through the roof Blizzard decided to leave them in the dust for MoP. Similarly warrior competitive PvP representation was suffering for the latter half of cata so they buffed them like insanity. Now that we're ridiculously powerful and everyone and their mother is leveling an arms warrior for pvp we're going to get nerfs. The only class this doesn't apply to is mages for some reason.
    Nope, not gonna play a warrior. I'm well aware they always get nerfed when they start looking like they might be worth something in pvp. But I did intend on rolling one.

    Nah, have rerolled BM hunter, lol. The amount of control and get away-s is insane. Impossible to beat 1v1 except by shadow priest.

  5. #125
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Gaga View Post
    Only thing that can come close to beating a hunter in 1v1 is a shadow priest.
    Shadowpriests have zero hope versus pet spamming BM hunters in 1v1. This is how that works out for you.

    I press Phantasm, the hunter can't shoot me - but that doesn't matter, because the BM hunters menagerie globals me through Dispersion (currently their pets completely ignore damage reduction effects like Shadowform and Dispersion).

    I press Spectral Guise, I get globaled by a menagerie of pets.

    I press Dispersion, I get globaled (see above).

    I press Shadowmeld, Right-Click Arena/BG icon, Leave Arena. I don't die but still lose! Yay!

    So what I'm saying is, Night Elves have a shot at not dying, everything else dies to pet spam.

    The best defense I have right now is that most hunters are Terrible at pvp, so good hunters are extraordinarily rare right now - but if they continue like this how long will that last? Not long.
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  6. #126
    ret op? i keep hitting like a wet noodle outside of wings, as always. l2 cc them wings.

  7. #127
    Mechagnome Findus707's Avatar
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    As a Guardian druid i can take down anyone, except healers and warriors(which got the healing when under 30%), everything else is a piece of cake.

  8. #128
    Scarab Lord Nest's Avatar
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    Was watching Maldiva doing rBG's as Destro, he critted 345k with Chaos Bolt and one shotted a shaman.

    PvP Power and Resilience will fix it.
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  9. #129
    I wouldn't take the replies in this thread very seriously.

    I won't claim what's op and what isn't, but here's what i find annoying so far in pvp:

    BM hunter healing. You thought hybrid healing was insane? Go fight a hunter

    Warrior damage and freaking second wind

    Locks
    Last edited by Grimbold21; 2012-10-06 at 03:45 AM.

  10. #130
    If you queue into any form of shatterplay, prepare your anus.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by SkillOverKill View Post
    Shadowpriests have zero hope versus pet spamming BM hunters in 1v1. This is how that works out for you.

    I press Phantasm, the hunter can't shoot me - but that doesn't matter, because the BM hunters menagerie globals me through Dispersion (currently their pets completely ignore damage reduction effects like Shadowform and Dispersion).

    I press Spectral Guise, I get globaled by a menagerie of pets.

    I press Dispersion, I get globaled (see above).

    I press Shadowmeld, Right-Click Arena/BG icon, Leave Arena. I don't die but still lose! Yay!

    So what I'm saying is, Night Elves have a shot at not dying, everything else dies to pet spam.

    The best defense I have right now is that most hunters are Terrible at pvp, so good hunters are extraordinarily rare right now - but if they continue like this how long will that last? Not long.
    I have always considered the term "global" to refer to 1 general cooldown. However that can't be what you mean, because no one can kill you in 1 GCD. So, what do you mean by "globaled"?

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by lolpve View Post
    Yeah because overpowered classes are going to magically become weaker when they gain stats.

    MMO-champion pvp section /facepalm
    Actually it's quite the opposite. Classes that seem weak will get exponentially more powerful and be more equal with their currently OP counterparts. From everything I've read it seems half of the classes are OP.

    Maybe those classes aren't as OP and the other classes are just too weak.

    It's almost pointless for Blizzard to balance anything as long as they stay with this archaic system. My only suggestion is for people to stop looking for the FOTM and play whatever they find to be fun. After all, it's much more interesting and a world more fun when you are the less powerful and kill the most powerful.

    With that said, always choose a mage and learn to play one inside and out. Mages are almost always near the top.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadOwnz View Post
    Really i was thinking Druid Hunter Death knight is TSG really that stronger?
    A lot has changed about every class in TSG:

    Let's talk about what the disadvantages of old TSG were, and how that is now remedied:
    - as a double melee team, mobility is the biggest concern - currently warriors are pretty much unkiteable for all but frost mages, and frost dks have access to Death's Advance, which got a big buff from the already incredibly strong ability that it was. In addition, hpal's now can grant 2 blessings of freedom before putting it on cooldown - effectively doubling the amount of uptime they can put out - so if for example you have the warrior blowing charges/leaps like they don't care while the dk uses DA's active runspeed buff - you can then follow that up with double Freedoms while their cooldowns reset, and rinse and repeat endlessly.

    - TSG lacked real Crowd Control before 5.0, this mostly held them back from being real gladiator contenders - it happened of course many times - a TSG was even in the world top 10 last season - but their crowd control was really quite rare and situational: this is no longer true. Warrior's AoE fear from a 3 minute cooldown to a 1 minute cooldown - tripling the number you will see per game. Since TSG DK's can now go Frost (and should), they will all have Hungering Cold (AoE iceblocks) on a 1 minute cooldown - without the dilemma of lack of Death's Advance that forced TSG DK's to go Unholy before 5.0. Lastly and most importantly, Holy Paladins now have near-spammable Repentance, allowing them to be the frost mages/warlocks of their team by spamming control - all of these have seperate DRs.

    That's pretty good, but it takes more than just that to make TSG free gladiator - so what have they gained?

    Currently Frost DKs and Warriors are probably the two highest sustained DPS specs in PvP - pretty much every battleground or arena right now has Frost DKs topping Damage Done, and Warriors topping Killing Blows: this isn't coincidence. "But sustained DPS isn't the best thing in arenas", you say, "frost mages had terrible sustained DPS all last expansion but their burst was totally overpowered" - absolutely true - but frost DKs and warriors also have some of the best and perhaps more importantly - consistent - burst of any class right now. Some classes can probably burst bigger (Destro Locks, Ele Shamans, Feral Druids - ignoring BM hunters because they're obviously broken), but they all rely on resource pooling beforehand or random procs or lucky crit streaks: warriors and frost dks both burst by pressing their on-use cooldowns - no procs or crits required to do huge damage - Recklessness/Avatar/Skull Banner/Dragon's Roar/5k Str Trinket or Ghoul/Pillar of Frost/5k Str Trinket/Empowered Rune Weapon: when they want to burst, that's when they burst - a destro lock needs 30-60 seconds of freecasting to build up lots of Burning Embers, but you can prevent that by sitting on them or CCing them or LoSing them - not so with warriors/dks - if anyone ends up in a bad spot - even if its seconds into the game - that's when their burst is going to happen, no crits or ramp-up or luck or procs required, just on demand instant death buttons.

    That's all well and good, but what about synergy? Actually this comp has probably the best synergy of any comp in the game now. TSG brings full raid buffs to the DK and Warrior - which almost no other 3's comp can claim. They don't have crit strike chance, but they don't need it - because when they go for burst they have Recklessness/Killing Machine, and they don't have any caster buffs - which they don't care about. They have every other buff, and all the debuffs covered. Furthermore, when they go for burst, Skull Banner gives them 20% larger crits - which will be used during Recklessness (50% more crits) and Killing Machine (100% chance to Obliterate crit) - so TSG has probably the best synergy of any 3's comp in the game.

    "But what about survivability? Aren't they vulnerable with all those advantages?" The simple answer is, no. I've seen many DKs complain about Purgatory based on their experiences in Battlegrounds, but in Arenas - when you have a dedicated healer like a Holy Paladin who can bomb large, fast heals into you (as opposed to hots) - you are Very likely to return to the living while in Purgatory. This means that any CC chain that would take 12 seconds of uninterrupted damage into you while your CC can't trinket/aura mastery/bubble out, now has to take 15 seconds - if they could have done it in 6 seconds of burst, now they need to do it in 9 seconds - that's an amazing addition! Warriors also saw massive survivability buffs, swapping to defensive stance used to give you 5% more damage reduction over battle stance, now it gives 20 or 25% additional damage reduction - that means "going defensive" means a Lot now. What's more, they gained two other new defensive benefits - (1) they now have access to the deterrence blade-spinny thing Fury had that makes them parry all attacks for 8 seconds every 2 minutes, and (2) second wind as many people already know means that enemy teams need to save their burst until the warrior gets into second wind before using it - burst too early and the warrior will just regenerate over your non-cooldown DPS - which will only get stronger as resilience gets higher, increasing the effective health in second wind, health pools get larger, further increasing that effective health, and pvp power makes second wind heal for more healing.

    TL;DR - TSG should be amazing this season once BM hunters get nerfed and regular arenas can resume.
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  14. #134
    I like casters complaining about warriors, when they don't realize they can burst for double the damage

  15. #135
    Epic! Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatsu View Post
    I like casters complaining about warriors, when they don't realize they can burst for double the damage
    I like when Warriors act like the only thing imbalanced about their class is burst damage.

    The real imbalance to Warriors is Shockwave, Gag Order and Second Wind. Not to mention the high ass mobility Warriors have. They should remove the glyph of gag order, remove glyph of heroic leap and make shockwave either replace bloodbath in tier 6 or have it cost 50 rage.

    Currently, Arms Warriors are basically Cataclysm Prot Warriors before the vengeance nerf, using a Two Hander.
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  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I like when Warriors act like the only thing imbalanced about their class is burst damage.

    The real imbalance to Warriors is Shockwave, Gag Order and Second Wind. Not to mention the high ass mobility Warriors have. They should remove the glyph of gag order, remove glyph of heroic leap and make shockwave either replace bloodbath in tier 6 or have it cost 50 rage.

    Currently, Arms Warriors are basically Cataclysm Prot Warriors before the vengeance nerf, using a Two Hander.
    Ye, warriors were clearly better in Cata, when you could tunnel them and they had no chance to stick on a target. Let's remove every ability from them and make them like a mob. Please.
    You whine about Shockwave (I admit it's very cool to have it), but don't realize that every Mage got Deep Freeze, on the same CD, 1s more duration and ranged. Not to mention the damage that a mage can put out without cooldowns.
    Gag order can be annoying, but if a caster can take away 1/4 of my hps with a cast, maybe you should re-think about it being OP. If you really want to change it, let's make Gag order an interrupt on Heroic throw without the silence effect atleast.
    Second wind is really easy to burst through, learn to counter it.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatsu View Post
    Ye, warriors were clearly better in Cata, when you could tunnel them and they had no chance to stick on a target. Let's remove every ability from them and make them like a mob. Please.
    You whine about Shockwave (I admit it's very cool to have it), but don't realize that every Mage got Deep Freeze, on the same CD, 1s more duration and ranged. Not to mention the damage that a mage can put out without cooldowns.
    Gag order can be annoying, but if a caster can take away 1/4 of my hps with a cast, maybe you should re-think about it being OP. If you really want to change it, let's make Gag order an interrupt on Heroic throw without the silence effect atleast.
    Second wind is really easy to burst through, learn to counter it.
    You're absolutely hilarious, not even gonna answer that joke of a post, I will just sit there and wait for the inevitable nerfbat to come. Considering how ridiculous warriors are right now it will probably come next week.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by SkillOverKill View Post
    Shadowpriests have zero hope versus pet spamming BM hunters in 1v1. This is how that works out for you.

    I press Phantasm, the hunter can't shoot me - but that doesn't matter, because the BM hunters menagerie globals me through Dispersion (currently their pets completely ignore damage reduction effects like Shadowform and Dispersion).

    I press Spectral Guise, I get globaled by a menagerie of pets.

    I press Dispersion, I get globaled (see above).

    I press Shadowmeld, Right-Click Arena/BG icon, Leave Arena. I don't die but still lose! Yay!

    So what I'm saying is, Night Elves have a shot at not dying, everything else dies to pet spam.

    The best defense I have right now is that most hunters are Terrible at pvp, so good hunters are extraordinarily rare right now - but if they continue like this how long will that last? Not long.
    I dunno why you've been putting so much emphasis on BM Hunters over the past pages, as I can understand SPs might be having a hard time against them, but they're not unbeatable or invincible. They're very strong yeah and I won't hold back either by saying they're OP, but are they the only ones as good? Nope, you might want to reconsider warriors and frost mages. Heck, I even see SPs as pretty decent, but not absurdly OP, yet far from lackluster.
    You mention your own defensive CDs about that pets can still attack through it, but the same can be said for detterence since all DoTs still tick through it. A menagerie of pets only appear 'once' every 5mins just for the record in case you didn't know, but once again, I can understand if you don't since most people are probably just in frustration after being zerged to death by pets every 5mins (little do they know Stampede is not spammable fortunately).

    Even if you do pop Fade for those precious 3 secs, that's already 3 secs off on their Bestial Wrath already - I wouldn't complain about a well timed fade anyday (that can already be used twice by the time their TBW is up) to try and counter TBW if I can see some big CDs being popped, which is extremely predictable and visible when it comes to hunters, lol. It's still something, because you still continue to do damage to the hunter when he pops detterence - stop making it sound like your def CDs are useless, because they're not. BM hunters already lose their Roar of Sacrifice automatically, for the most part as they're trading damage for survivability.

    For example, I had a warrior at half HP instantly bring me down to near 30% in a few seconds, and I couldn't even move or CC him since he had Avatar popped. Add some second wind healing into the mix and I only got to kill him after getting some help since my own CDs were down. This is just an example of a spec that also grants you immunity to CC for a few secs.
    So was it because my spec wasn't as OP and that you can't compare CDs? I don't know about you, but I've been 2300-2400 as a hunter since S6, but the damage outside of our BM CDs isn't that great, and is even very predictable since you can even CC the pet(s) as I have noticed throughout BG's.

    Sure BM Hunters are strong, but they're more CD reliant than most other classes. Again, lets say we wanted a mage to do some damage - he could just shatter combo which doesn't need to rely on lengthy 1-2min CDs, provided he can freecast. Big word there, freecasting right? You might say he ought to be uninterrupted and in LOS to do so which makes this comparison a bit more complicated, but we could say the same for hunters since the pet has to be not CC'd either at the same time, as well as being in LOS since a nova'd/feared pet does no DPS, assuming master's call is on CD (which everyone knows is not spellstealable and everything).

    Try fighting a BM hunter without tools like Stampede, Lynx Rush and even Bestial Wrath ready - the damage will be laughable, and is far from sustained DPS. Even if his pets attack bypass your defensives, your offensives still go through his main defensive, as well as if he decides to kite/LOS, so it's not an excuse that your damage doesn't keep 'rolling'. On a sidenote, I've been some incredible and nice play from some good SPs over the past days in the new BG's, such as knowing when to pop their defensives and when to take advantage of offhealing - there was one time where I had a SP offheal to full by CC'ing me (TBW doesn't make you immune to CC) whilst I popped Bestial Wrath. The first thing he did when he saw me pop my offensives was dot me up and then LOS, then healed up and rotated his CCs well, including horror and even fearing my pet before coming back out. You could say that's typically a normal fight that goes on all the time, but every BM hunter knows that they're nothing without their pet(s) on the target and in LOS.

    This is one of the reasons why hunters had no place in most things like high-end 5's and RBGs for the past seasons; they've only just got burst mainly. They cannot pressure multiple-targets or cleave. Their CC can be 'eaten' (traps by others). Sure, every class brings something different to the table and it gets a bit more difficult when you compare them, but it's safe to say in this case, hunters can deliver it well in single-target damage when it comes to switching and bursting with big CDs. Iin this case, of course their damage will be incredibly OP, so there's no denying that right now, but for some classes, especially hybrids or those that can offheal, there's still some way to turn a fight around.
    I've got a SP alt too and there's pros and cons too. I can switch very easily too by softening up my targets with DoTs, and even offheal away when I'm LOS'ing, along with potentially having more passive damage reduction (15% shadowform + 6% glyph + 10% fade when used).

    Now, I personally wouldn't mind a BM hunter nerf, because I know they'll have to buff us in PvE in one way or another, whether that is through other specs or abilities, since SV and MM are not even viable right now in PvP. Nobody can argue that MM and SV is in good form, as they're not as competitive as BM in PvP and our talents have already 'milked' what used to define those specs, i.e. Silencing Shot for MM. So yeah, I'm sure some hunters wouldn't be in shock if BM did get get the nerfbat anyway, as some just never liked the whole grasp and gamestyle of BM (myself included, always preferred MM). Then again, you could say the same thing for those who like BM, but I'm sure it's safe to say that the uproar of QQ about BM Hunters will be making some things happen soon.
    People talk about hunters all day, but it's just one spec that seems to be doing well, and mainly 1 big CD, Stampede, that seems to be making some of the biggest drama when it comes to our damage.
    Last edited by Drakoes; 2012-10-06 at 02:44 PM.

  19. #139
    Pandaren Monk willtron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henkdejager View Post
    i don't understand the QQ here about how OP every other class is T_T but hee! i play a hunter and i am leveling a monk now to 90 haven't seen any monk at 90 pvping to my surprising:O
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  20. #140
    BM hunters are horribly broken burst right now. They can easily push 150-200k dps against fully honour geared players.

    Warriors seem over the top with combined top tier burst, sustained damage, mobility, crowd control. They are basically the melee version of fire mages. Based on the history I've seen with warriors in pvp, either they are top class, and they get nerfed heavily, or they are pathetic, and get buffed massively.

    I think (and sincerely hope) BM hunters and warriors are going to take a huge nerfbat soon.

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