BIS Prot Paladin

[Deleted]

Not sure if there was another post on it. I've searched but didn't find any.

I'm looking for BIS for Avoidance gear and Mitigation gear.
(Or any addon that has it)

Thanks in advance.

[MerinPally]

Unless someone beats me to it, I'll add it to the guide later when I add the changelog. Only just got back to my room. Think someone (probably Ayashi) has already done one though.

However I would strongly recommend you go for the mitigation gear at least because Thecks new work says that a mastery build is about 3 times less likely to be hit by a massive boss hit, therefore increasing the survival. A true BiS list is impossible though because you get to a level of "I can easily survive this" then you have to choose more avoidance or more stamina, and as everyones healers are different you will never get a hard and fast set, there will be options for pretty much every slot except maybe 6 (4 piece and then weapons).

[Deleted]

Thank you, that would be so helpful. Right now I'm struggling to understand how I'm supposed to have haste on my gear if I barely reach the hit and expertise cap. I'm probably quite stupid but I had to reforge out of mastery just to reach expertise capped :S
Albeit I'm missing 5 pieces to get at least 463 in every slot. (I have a few options for a few slots so far, GG)

[MerinPally]

You're not meant to have haste on your gear, that's why it's so far down the stat priority. Just because it's on there doesn't mean you MUST have some. It's only on there so that should a piece of plate drop that is technically dps, we can utilize the haste now and we couldn't before. The idea (as says on the guide) is to reduce incoming damage, and to do that you do Hit > Exp > Mastery > Parry > Dodge and then after all that, should you take comfortable amounts of damage, haste is useful because you increase the rate of holy power generation.

[Deleted]

You're not meant to have haste on your gear, that's why it's so far down the stat priority. Just because it's on there doesn't mean you MUST have some. It's only on there so that should a piece of plate drop that is technically dps, we can utilize the haste now and we couldn't before. The idea (as says on the guide) is to reduce incoming damage, and to do that you do Hit > Exp > Mastery > Parry > Dodge and then after all that, should you take comfortable amounts of damage, haste is useful because you increase the rate of holy power generation.

I'd care to disagree. I have recently gone full out on haste on my gear. I am loving it, my healers are loving it. It just works so great. Just today when queuing in a full random group to HC, even though pulling 2-3 packs at the same time, the healer complained that it was "no fun to heal me" since I basically healed myself. Can't wait to try it out in raids. The thing is it niches out really well. The thing is a mastery paladin is so similar to the other tanks. So for raids, having a haste paladin and another tank can really be benefitial.

I am currently using a haste > hit > expertise > mastery build. ( fuck dodge and parry ). With strength also being a priority.
Going for socket bonuses using
Yellow: Haste
Blue: Haste Hit
Red: Haste Strength / Haste expertise

Switching around 4 trinkets depending on fights:
2 stamina trinkets
1 haste trinket
1 strength trinket

Usually using 1 sta + 1 other.

It is just working out great.

[Lotzadotz]

I'd care to disagree. I have recently gone full out on haste on my gear. I am loving it, my healers are loving it. It just works so great. Just today when queuing in a full random group to HC, even though pulling 2-3 packs at the same time, the healer complained that it was "no fun to heal me" since I basically healed myself. Can't wait to try it out in raids. The thing is it niches out really well. The thing is a mastery paladin is so similar to the other tanks. So for raids, having a haste paladin and another tank can really be benefitial.

I am currently using a haste > hit > expertise > mastery build. ( fuck dodge and parry ). With strength also being a priority.
Going for socket bonuses using
Yellow: Haste
Blue: Haste Hit
Red: Haste Strength / Haste expertise

Switching around 4 trinkets depending on fights:
2 stamina trinkets
1 haste trinket
1 strength trinket

Usually using 1 sta + 1 other.

It is just working out great.

care to add a Armoury link pls??

[Deleted]

I'd care to disagree. I have recently gone full out on haste on my gear. I am loving it, my healers are loving it. It just works so great. Just today when queuing in a full random group to HC, even though pulling 2-3 packs at the same time, the healer complained that it was "no fun to heal me" since I basically healed myself. Can't wait to try it out in raids. The thing is it niches out really well. The thing is a mastery paladin is so similar to the other tanks. So for raids, having a haste paladin and another tank can really be benefitial.

I am currently using a haste > hit > expertise > mastery build. ( fuck dodge and parry ). With strength also being a priority.
Going for socket bonuses using
Yellow: Haste
Blue: Haste Hit
Red: Haste Strength / Haste expertise

Switching around 4 trinkets depending on fights:
2 stamina trinkets
1 haste trinket
1 strength trinket

Usually using 1 sta + 1 other.

It is just working out great.

I honestly don't see how this would work, unless you had enough haste to keep Shield of the Righteous up...
I'm sure some math genius can work out how much haste would be needed.

Pally tanks would then become a soaker, rather than the normal dodge/parry tank.
It sounds not too bad but I'm a bit weary.

That said, I'd personally listen to someone who is trying something out, rather than someone who has yet to level to 90 and guessing.

[Judge40]

I honestly don't see how this would work, unless you had enough haste to keep Shield of the Righteous up...
I'm sure some math genius can work out how much haste would be needed.

Pally tanks would then become a soaker, rather than the normal dodge/parry tank.
It sounds not too bad but I'm a bit weary.

That said, I'd personally listen to someone who is trying something out, rather than someone who has yet to level to 90 and guessing.

While I'm certainly not backing up the haste >>>>> all gearing (hit and expertise are more important until cap/softcap) the below post by Theck on the Sacred Duty blog makes a very interesting read and backs up this gearing method.

Personally I plan to have my main gearing setup with a lot of haste. I'm not going to outright avoid dodge/parry, but if I can get them I'll be leaning towards haste/mastery pieces once hit/exp capped.

Edit:
Forgot link

http://sacredduty.net/2012/09/24/avo...age-smoothing/

[Deleted]

I honestly don't see how this would work, unless you had enough haste to keep Shield of the Righteous up...
I'm sure some math genius can work out how much haste would be needed.

Pally tanks would then become a soaker, rather than the normal dodge/parry tank.
It sounds not too bad but I'm a bit weary.

That said, I'd personally listen to someone who is trying something out, rather than someone who has yet to level to 90 and guessing.

Personally I have awlways hated avoidance tanks. It makes tanking to RNG based and very easy to die from bad rng. Remember in the beginning of cata sitting at around 96-97% CTC. Getting bad rng to get 4-5 hits in a row = death.
Mitigation is alot smoother than avoidance however in this expansion, it just feels less viable with current stat scaling and the changes to CTC.

What people forget is with the haste build, it removes alot of the RNG. It smoothens out the damage. Its simple. However much dodge or parry or block you have. You can still get a period of 15 seconds where you do not get a single dodge, parry or block.
You will NEVER get a period of 15 sec with no SoTR. SoTR will follow a fairly set pattern ( only altered by AS procs and using wings which lowers judge CD )
You will go SoTR -> No SOTR -> SoTR -> No SoTR in a fixed pattern. Causing your damage input to be alot more predictable. Ofc you still have the chance to dodge, parry and block even with haste build which still creates a bit of RNG.
Also the differnce in dodge,parry and block is not so huge in a haste build.

What does it matter if you got 100% uptime on SoTR?
Its not like you are even remotely close to 100% avoidance or 100% mitigation.
I would be suprised if you are even at 50%. Especially with the changes done to mitigation and avoidance.

Haste/hit/exp prio takes slightly more damage than an avoidance build ( at current gear levels ), however it takes smoother damage. Alot easier for healers.
However some things that you might forget about this build. It is just so much more dynamic.

Haste/hit/exp is alot more useful when your not tanking. For example raids when you have tank switching. Theoritacally it allows you to help out healers with word of glory. And the increased HP generation adds more holy power.

It also naturally increases your damage output by a significant amount. Which is always very welcome, especially in heroic mode raiding.

It works very well with SOInsight. Allowing you to heal for just crazy amounts when multiple mobs.

It niches paladins. It makes an unique tank. You can ofc still keep a avoidance gear set. However, you can simple let the warrior or whatever tank the bosses where you think avoidance would be more suited and let the paladin tank other bosses.

Most of all - It makes the rotation alot faster and more fun. It enhances the gameplay experience. Even if it is slightly worse in some situations, it is totally worth it just for the whole gameplay of it.

[Marema]

So I've been leveling as prot and when Im finally 90 (hopefully after work) I'll be prot/holy as I've always been since Ret bores the hell out of me.

I like the idea of trying something new so I'll give haste a shot. So basically I go (copied from above) haste > hit > expertise > mastery and keep SoTR up? Is there a haste cap or a minimum to shoot for? And reforge from dodge or parry or pick the highest one and reforge that? I'm also pretty clueless as what the hit and expertise cap is (sorry, been very altcentric for basically all of Cata and havent' paid much attention to things).

[Deleted]

So I've been leveling as prot and when Im finally 90 (hopefully after work) I'll be prot/holy as I've always been since Ret bores the hell out of me.

I like the idea of trying something new so I'll give haste a shot. So basically I go (copied from above) haste > hit > expertise > mastery and keep SoTR up? Is there a haste cap or a minimum to shoot for? And reforge from dodge or parry or pick the highest one and reforge that? I'm also pretty clueless as what the hit and expertise cap is (sorry, been very altcentric for basically all of Cata and havent' paid much attention to things).

Hit > Exp > Haste > Mastery is probably better for pure performance.

I went Haste over hit and exp because it feels more fun. So if you are trying to min max you should cap hit and exp first. Thing is just will have so low haste until you get raid gear.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=88585

Great trinket for starters. However the haste is very low. Stamina is probably preferable on trinket slot since the stamina to secondary stat ratio, so I would suggest atleast 1 stamina trinket ( brewfest ) and instead gemming towards secondary stats.

Preferably you will want to aboid dodge and parry items as much as you can.
A combination of haste and hit/expertise is good.
Haste/hit/exp + mastery works aswell.

As said, I gemmed haste, however hit gemming is probably preferable. I just wanted to check out how low I can get the cooldowns.

[Judge40]

For a trinket http://www.wowhead.com/item=77530 with expertise/hit/haste is pretty nice and can (currently?) be used by non-engineers.

[Deleted]

Anyone with the hit > expertise > mastery/haste build could link their armory? I want to get a feel for what I should be getting, or even close to it.

[Punchmybags]

Anyone with the hit > expertise > mastery/haste build could link their armory? I want to get a feel for what I should be getting, or even close to it.

Please, Firefly (I think that was your name) Link us your armory so one we know you are not trolling and 2 so we can get on this. As a fellow prot and in almost all heroic pieces I am getting bored of the same shit over and over. Let us see your build and gear! This is me btw! (Click "me") =D

[Deleted]

Please, Firefly (I think that was your name) Link us your armory so one we know you are not trolling and 2 so we can get on this. As a fellow prot and in almost all heroic pieces I am getting bored of the same shit over and over. Let us see your build and gear! This is me btw! (Click "me") =D

Well. I am still working on my gear. Have had very bad luck with drops, so sitting on quite a few dodge and parry pieces sadly.
Also, I have not geared 100% proprely. I have gone to the end to max out haste for the fun factor.

This is my paladin - Working on replacing some hit piece since im currently above hit cap but not really bothered about that since raids have not released yet. But currently working on gearing my hunter as my paladin is my alt and I will be raiding on my hunter, so gearing is slow on pala.

Sitting on:

8.86% hit - 1.16 above cap
6.21% exp - 1.39 to ranged attack cap
14% haste

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...0msey/advanced

Currently working on replacing:
Head
Should
Chest
Weapon
Gloves
Legs
Boot
Ring

But shit just wont drop
But I can see the results with what I already have.

---------- Post added 2012-10-02 at 02:59 PM ----------

But yeah, as I said. I am going for a more haste>all build just to test out how far I can go really.
That is not at all what I suggest if your going more seriously.
I really suggest a
hit>exp(softcap)>mastery>haste
or
hit>exp(softcap)>haste>mastery

[Judge40]

My current shopping list is:


Head Helm of Rising Flame Brother Korloff*(H)
Neck Whirling Dervish Choker Mogu'shan Palace*(H)
Shoulder Vigorsteel Spaulders Darkmaster Gandling*(H)
Back Drape of the Screeching Swarm Gate of the Setting Sun*(H)
Chest Hateshatter Chestplate Shado-Pan Monastery*(H)
Wrist Ri'mok's Shattered Scale Commander Ri'mok*(H)
Hands Hive Protector's Gauntlets Gate of the Setting Sun*(H)
Waist Waistplate of Imminent Resurrection Scarlet Monastery*(H)
Legs Sap-Encrusted Legplates Vizier Jin'bak*(H)
Feet Spike-Soled Stompers Sha of Violence*(H)
Finger Firefinger Ring Brother Korloff*(H)
Finger Lime-Rimmed Signet Yan-Zhu the Uncasked*(H)
Trinket Ghost Iron Dragonling Ghost Iron Dragonling
One-Hand Ook's Hozen Slicer Ook-Ook*(H)
Shield Impervious Carapace Gate of the Setting Sun*(H)

The dragonling trinket can be used by anyone and with hit/exp/haste cogs is pretty nice. Just need a second trinket.
I've avoided any BoE stuff or the rare epics from the HC dungeons, also avoided anything with crit on it. I'd rather have sub-par dodge/parry than crit, which is 100% useless outside of DPS gain.

[Deleted]

The dragonling trinket can be used by anyone and with hit/exp/haste cogs is pretty nice. Just need a second trinket.
I've avoided any BoE stuff or the rare epics from the HC dungeons, also avoided anything with crit on it. I'd rather have sub-par dodge/parry than crit, which is 100% useless outside of DPS gain.

While I agree with you to some extent that even though dodge/parry are sub-par, they are better then crit. However, gears with both dodge and parry are so sub-par that an item with a good stat + crit is better then a dodge+parry item.

Also some items like that belt you linked got so high dodge

668 dodge
338 expertise

That in my opinion, I rather have a crit item with 450 in a useful stat than 450 in a useful stat than 338.

[Judge40]

While I agree with you to some extent that even though dodge/parry are sub-par, they are better then crit. However, gears with both dodge and parry are so sub-par that an item with a good stat + crit is better then a dodge+parry item.

Also some items like that belt you linked got so high dodge

668 dodge
338 expertise

That in my opinion, I rather have a crit item with 450 in a useful stat than 450 in a useful stat than 338.

Obviously it's just personal preference, below is a comparison of the belts available. With dodge/crit converted to haste/mastery.
http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items....0.0.0.0.0.124

Personally I would rather have the 20 less in 'useful' stats and take 401 dodge, than have the extra 20 stats with 261/267 of useless crit.

[Punchmybags]

OK so I have gotten myself to 7.54% hit and 7.75% (6.75%) expertise, 4.18% haste and 15.78% Mast. So I am guessing that the 6.75% is why I am still parring the raid boss dummy. Do I need more?

[Judge40]

OK so I have gotten myself to 7.54% hit and 7.75% (6.75%) expertise, 4.18% haste and 15.78% Mast. So I am guessing that the 6.75% is why I am still parring the raid boss dummy. Do I need more?

Expertise has a soft-cap and a hard cap.

At the soft cap of 7.5% your attacks will never be dodged.
The stop your attacks being parried you need the same again, so 15% expertise.

Generally people will stop at 7.5%, the amount of extra expertise needed to remove parry is less valuable than moving to other stats instead.
I recommend you do the same.