Hold up, WTF happened to rogues?

[Xenro]

Why are they so shitty in MoP? I thought everything was supposed to balance out at 90. I'm not sure if they got nerfed too much or other classes just got buffed, but this class is shitty.

[Benomatic]

You're probably just playing the class wrong

[mercutiouk]

Why are they so shitty in MoP? I thought everything was supposed to balance out at 90. I'm not sure if they got nerfed too much or other classes just got buffed, but this class is shitty.

Rogues are always weak out of the door in a new expansion. They are one of the classes (warriors being the other main example) that scale rapidly with gear. You'll be weak till the end of the first tier then come back to the top of the pile again, worry not.

[adamvd]

Rogues are always weak out of the door in a new expansion. They are one of the classes (warriors being the other main example) that scale rapidly with gear. You'll be weak till the end of the first tier then come back to the top of the pile again, worry not.

Am I missing something? Rogues have always dominated the 1st season of new expansions.

[johnrockks]

Is everyone on MMO-C pvp forum playing a different game? Lemme guess, you're still playing sub. Go Mut spec and try again. Rogues will always be great at pvp.

[Deleted]

wait what! you can not 1 shot people any more. How dare blizzard. how dare they in deed, no but they tried to change PVP from 4 sec battles to longer, så try to go mut

[Coraulten]

They arn't shitty, they just arn't as noob friendly anymore. Good rogues are still good and will dominate with them.

[Deleted]

If you know Ecliptium, he has a nice stream and he was talking about balance earlier. I think he summed it quite well : Maybe too good damage during Shadow Dance (and post due to FW), poor survivability and mobility. "A 6.5 over 10". Mages had 10, Shadow Priests 9.5 and Warriors 8.5 in his opinion.
He's been a gladiator 6 seasons in a row or something like that. I'd say his opinion is quite valuable.


As for my opinion, the mobility is terrible and the CDs too long. If CDs were reduced, Shadow Step was buffed, Preparation was replaced with some other mobility talent and BoS got a slighty energy reduction, I'd be happy.
Also, I really doubt Assassination is going to be the choice for arenas. Subtlety provides a lot more control.

[rafiyel]

In cataclysm rogues had insane dmg(due to legendaries) and insane cc. They were destroying everything in arenas and Blizz said that they were overall happy where rogues were. Take away the legendaries and they lose some dmg, but are still insane with their cc. Blizz liked the overall power to cc and play of rogues, and decided to mainly keep them where they were while buffing other classes where they lacked, rogue only lack some dmg but made up for it with cc. You're slightly underpowered now as sub, but seriously every class faces some down point and this is looking like rogues. They are still decent, just not so insanely op as they have been.

[Deleted]

In cataclysm rogues had insane dmg(due to legendaries) and insane cc. They were destroying everything in arenas and Blizz said that they were overall happy where rogues were. Take away the legendaries and they lose some dmg, but are still insane with their cc. Blizz liked the overall power to cc and play of rogues, and decided to mainly keep them where they were while buffing other classes where they lacked, rogue only lack some dmg but made up for it with cc. You're slightly underpowered now as sub, but seriously every class faces some down point and this is looking like rogues. They are still decent, just not so insanely op as they have been.

While I agree that rogue needed nerfs, I wouldn't say that Blizzard decided to mainly keep them...

Crippling went from 70% to 50% which makes backstabbing harder and rogue-kiting easier.
Shiv to 10 seconds and can be dodged and parried (the extra effect is nice, but for crippling, it's going back to just old version and 4pc PVP bonus makes it void)
Elusiveness CD reduction gone.
All crit modifiers from Ambush and Backstab gone (they hit very soft outside FW)
Hemo bleed gone from Sanguinary Vein.
Serrated Blades gone.
Honour Among Thieves nerfed (CPs only in combat, no longer gives 5% crit).
Stealth level nerfed (hotfixed a few weeks ago, but seems to be 5 levels weaker than it was)
Energetic Recovery into Slice and Dice instead of Recuperate.
You must choose what to lose, Preparation or Shadow Step, Deadly Throw or Combat Readiness (Horrible change)

---

No PVE gear, ER on SND, Sinister Calling nerfed and suddenly the rogue class is much more "down to the ground". No need to shred the entire spec. Funny thing is, Subtlety will still work due to Sinister Calling and Shadow Dance/Find Weakness.

[Illana]

they aren't bad they just aren't soloing people in a smoke bomb anymore

[Rorke]

I can't believe people are still crying about season 11 Rogues and are using that season to justify the terrible state Rogues are in.

They pretty much gave everything Rogues had to Warriors. Warriors are pretty much plate wearing Sub Rogues with better control, better damage migration, better healing, better spell lock outs, better mobility and better Burst damage. Why do you think Reckful went over to play a Warrior?

Its okay though. When all is said and done, good Rogues will always find a way to triumph over the people who play unskilled classes. Rogues are a true PvP class, they will eventually put the lesser classes in their place.

[Roose]

all rogues could disappear and very few people would care.

That said, l2p.

[lolpve]

They arn't shitty, they just arn't as noob friendly anymore. Good rogues are still good and will dominate with them.

Rogues were never noob-friendly unless you had top notch pve gear. Pretty much any other class is far easier to manage in pvp gear.

Blizzard nerfed the class because they are too stupid to differentiate between pve gear being too strong, and the class mechanics being too strong. Right now I'd say that a 2400-skill rogue is probably about as effective as a 1800-skill any other melee. I can play a caster now and it's like playing a different game. The amount of control, damage and survivability most casters have mean I can pretty much use abilities at random and still do far better than on my rogue (which I'm very good at).

It's important that rogues get back on top quickly for the tournament scene, since people generally prefer watching skillful comps like RMP rather than all the garbage with deathknights and various dumb cleaves.

[rafiyel]

Blizz said in one of the blue notes about classes that they liked where rogues were in cata and wanted to keep them overall similar to what they were. Sorry I can't find the blue note with it right now, and this was a while back so sorry if I don't remember it exactly. Yes they did change them a bit, but there's always some change and they'll probably change them again to even them out better with the pvp changes.

[Deleted]

Rogues scale with gear. They start out expansions being bad and become OP around the end.

[Tyrannica]

all rogues could disappear and very few people would care.

That said, l2p.

You can't see them while stealthed, so people do always care.

[Dcruize]

I've pretty much given up on my rogue being a DPS class - until they're brought into line with hunter/warrior/spriest I'll probably be running as combat so I can setup 9second stuns for the classes that can hit twice as hard as me.

[ardnut]

As a warrior who has been decimated by rogues over the last 2 and a half seasons... rogue tears taste so sweet.

[lolpve]

As a warrior who has been decimated by rogues over the last 2 and a half seasons... rogue tears taste so sweet.

Warriors are supposed to be pve tanks. If you want to pvp you should reroll a proper class like rogues.