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  1. #1

    Feral casting wrath on elegon

    according to the world of logs it seems that wrath is awsome for this fight but i dont understand why on a feral druid how/why does it work so well?
    Last edited by Malonnus; 2012-10-13 at 07:53 AM.

  2. #2
    It's feral druids using Heart of the Wild, that's why it was fixed. Probably not that awesome anymore.
    Originally Posted by Bashiok
    Is there a term you have for being shown proof and choosing to dismiss it?
    Starting a Monk Blog; Celestial Fists: http://celestialfists.blogspot.com/
    Called Garrosh as end boss: 10/28/2011

  3. #3
    with the damage buff in the final phase wrath hits for 4-500k during heart of the wild. its busted.

  4. #4
    Even without a damage buff it's worth it up to ~464 gear level.

    Anytime bloodlust goes off I hotw and spam wrath and dps goes up 4-6k.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-12 at 10:58 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by crunk View Post
    with the damage buff in the final phase wrath hits for 4-500k during heart of the wild. its busted.
    Not sure how it's busted, any less and it would be a pretty blah talent. Also, They don't do baselines off gimmicky mechanics.
    Apply blizzards model to any other subscription service,you'd be outraged:
    Netflix adds no new movies for a year, you click a new movie, there's a $5 fee.
    You're in an accident, click your onstar button, but there's an addition $20 fee for them to help.
    You turn on your tv only to find all you get are the infomercial channels. Every other show is pay per view.
    See how dumb that model is?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzy View Post
    Not sure how it's busted, any less and it would be a pretty blah talent. Also, They don't do baselines off gimmicky mechanics.
    Try 30k MF ticks and 130k wraths even without the Elegon encounter buffs. That's more than a little ridiculous.

    Or 96k AP in pure caster gear. Seeing Ferocious Bites close to 300k on a dummy is fun.

    The problem is that the gimmicky mechanic is way above the baseline.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by crunk View Post
    with the damage buff in the final phase wrath hits for 4-500k during heart of the wild. its busted.
    Try 1.6 million. That is what my Wrath hit for in the final Phase. Before the nerf (and currently live) just self buffed HotW Wrath hits for about 128k. Crit just under 300k. Raid buffed its about 200k hit, 400k hit. Elegon is just plane stupid... Until Tuesday when they get the fix it. It was very broken.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinderhoof View Post
    Try 1.6 million. That is what my Wrath hit for in the final Phase. Before the nerf (and currently live) just self buffed HotW Wrath hits for about 128k. Crit just under 300k. Raid buffed its about 200k hit, 400k hit. Elegon is just plane stupid... Until Tuesday when they get the fix it. It was very broken.
    It was also entirely unfair in arenas. Everyone already hated resto druids for one reason or another in arena, now imagine being bitten for 200k~300k by a resto. With PvP armor.

  8. #8
    on the pillars phase i normally nuke the pillars by myself with HOTW and as a resto. Was hitting harder then I do in boomkin.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinderhoof View Post
    Try 1.6 million. That is what my Wrath hit for in the final Phase. Before the nerf (and currently live) just self buffed HotW Wrath hits for about 128k. Crit just under 300k. Raid buffed its about 200k hit, 400k hit. Elegon is just plane stupid... Until Tuesday when they get the fix it. It was very broken.
    How is it broken? Even in its current incarnation, there is no timing window (except perhaps 2 seconds) where it's the best burst dps in the game. It comes close to it, and is roughly even with many other class' burst, but BM stampede kicks the crap out of it, even over 45 seconds.

  10. #10
    HotW is/was limited by low crit rates. I was able to cast 24 in a row several times with 0 crits. That gave me high dps, but not overwhelming. When I got 6 crits I was doing 30k dps over the the Blood DK on Feng. Show me numbers that proves over 45 seconds its not the best sustained dps out there. On top of that we still get a Berserk for 15 more seconds right after HotW is done.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by kaiadam View Post
    How is it broken? Even in its current incarnation, there is no timing window (except perhaps 2 seconds) where it's the best burst dps in the game. It comes close to it, and is roughly even with many other class' burst, but BM stampede kicks the crap out of it, even over 45 seconds.
    That's more than a boomkin crits for. Yes, it is broken. Badly.

  12. #12
    HotW is/was limited by low crit rates. I was able to cast 24 in a row several times with 0 crits. That gave me high dps, but not overwhelming. When I got 6 crits I was doing 30k dps over the the Blood DK on Feng. Show me numbers that proves over 45 seconds its not the best sustained dps out there. On top of that we still get a Berserk for 15 more seconds right after HotW is done.
    Here you go - heroic garajal attempts (you can check any logs between this one - #42 I think - and the last wipe #48, that's when we got our warrior in the raid and hunter dps skyrocketed): http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=19130&e=19381

    Hunters bursting up to 400k and sustaining about 300k over the course of 45 seconds/1 min. Consistently. You can check my HoTW bursts the entire night and I was never able to go over 210k over the first 45 seconds. Furthermore, it wasn't just hunters. Both flavor of shaman, a ret, a mookin, and a dk were also able to consistently keep up with me in the first minute of combat, and we were all below the hunters, of course. (Edit: those numbers were taken from recount. Apparently WoL uses a different method for averaging initial burst dps, but that doesn't change the relative differences.)

    Alternatively, you can take a look at my kill video of the fight where I was not top dps at the end of 45 seconds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kevGAA8934g

    That's more than a boomkin crits for. Yes, it is broken. Badly
    Of course it needs to be higher than a boomkin crits for. Boomkins have dots, mastery, and other abilities (namely, HoTW too with higher melee/rake/bite damage than ferals). Wrath isn't 100% of a boomkin's dps, but it is for a boomcat - they need to -outdamage- boomkins in the time hotw is up or otherwise it wouldn't actually be a dps cooldown, now would it?
    Last edited by kaiadam; 2012-10-12 at 06:59 PM.

  13. #13
    A single log doesn't exactly make an argument. On top of that it looks like both Hunters and the DK beating you pot'd and you didn't. You also didn't use your Dancing Steel trinket during HotW which really reduces its effectiveness. Also because this is the troll boss the damage buffs from getting healed in the spirit world will make a difference. In my Feng kill this week I crushed both of the BM hunters in my group by almost 20k dps and that fight offers no dps boosting mechanics. How did you do vs your hunters on Feng?

  14. #14
    Not a single log no, but over the course of over a half dozen pulls where hunters just pulled ahead of me by a very clear and significant margin in the first minute, you can extrapolate some results. I should probably have given the link better, but basically, please just look at the damage for each pull between start and just after heroism fades - for those pulls, I'm never top damage and often somewhere between #3-5, thus supporting my claim that HoTW was not the best burst dps over the course of 45 seconds (or any other time frame.)

    (Also, I'm pretty sure I potted, I used a pot/hotw macro every pull, I just don't use it again until we get to 25% - that's when I pot/tf/zerk a second time to keep a buffed rip rolling with bitw).

    None of us ever entered the spirit realm in the first 45 seconds (and even if you do, it's an overall dps loss anyway - the buff is just a consolation prize so you don't lose -too- much dps when you go down.) Dancing steel is the weapon enchant proc, not the flashing steel talisman trinket thingy. I use alchemy trinket + DMF.

    Overall, I think we are doing pretty well and may even be slightly OP, but it's not because of our burst for sure. And Feng most definitely offers dps boosting mechanics - hotw hurricane'ing ONE wave of shield adds added almost 10k to my dps for the entire fight. I'd shudder to think of what'd happen if timers lined up and I was able to hurricane three waves of adds. We lost our log for the feng kill but I ended up at 95k for the fight and one of our hunters at 76k (other one was being ddosed at the time ...) Again, I believe we have absolutely top notch sustained single target damage but it's not because we have retarded hotw burst.
    Last edited by kaiadam; 2012-10-12 at 07:38 PM.

  15. #15
    On every one of our Elegon pulls by the time HotW is gone I am top of the raid by 20k. They get the same damage buff as me, but I crush them. Also on our Feng kill I didn't use HotW on the adds, I used it on the pull and the final burn and still crushed the Hunters. I can't compare Gara'jal with you because I used DoC both kills. The link above you gave was for a wipe and it doesn't contain a potion use for you. I have found that if you pre pot but wipe before a second pot WoL won't pick it up. It just means that the hunters in front of you did a second pot which skus the numbers some. On your kill you double pot'd and beat both hunters.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by kaiadam View Post
    Of course it needs to be higher than a boomkin crits for. Boomkins have dots, mastery, and other abilities (namely, HoTW too with higher melee/rake/bite damage than ferals). Wrath isn't 100% of a boomkin's dps, but it is for a boomcat - they need to -outdamage- boomkins in the time hotw is up or otherwise it wouldn't actually be a dps cooldown, now would it?
    I strongly agree.

  17. #17
    I'm going by the logic that if *someone* is able to pull out a 50k dps lead in the first minute of the encounter, and are able to repeat that performance multiple times, then you can't call hotw the best burst dps, unless you can show another druid who is outbursting those hunters. By the same logic, despite you outdamaging everyone else in your raid, unless you can beat those damnable hunters from my logs, then its still not enough to establish burst dominance. Our kill was suboptimal for the hunter - no warrior, so no shattering throw & shattering blow + crit banner.

    Again, I'm not talking about sustained single target - I acknowledge that we are really really good at that. I'm talking about the assertion that "HoTW is broken because it supplies insanely high burst dps" and it just simply isn't true. I mean, it does give us burst, but it's certainly not the highest (not by a long shot) and many other classes match our burst, thus making it more of an "above average" than "ridiculously insane."
    Last edited by kaiadam; 2012-10-12 at 07:55 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by kaiadam View Post
    Of course it needs to be higher than a boomkin crits for. Boomkins have dots, mastery, and other abilities (namely, HoTW too with higher melee/rake/bite damage than ferals). Wrath isn't 100% of a boomkin's dps, but it is for a boomcat - they need to -outdamage- boomkins in the time hotw is up or otherwise it wouldn't actually be a dps cooldown, now would it?
    It's not supposed to be one. The DPS part is the 6% agi/int/sta bonus.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    It's not supposed to be one. The DPS part is the 6% agi/int/sta bonus.
    Well, this is a debatable point. As developers have learned over the years, between a utility talent and a dps talent, players will choose the dps talent [almost] every time. Without the 6% agi/int/sta, HoTW would have actually been a dps -decrease- vs the other two talents, so they tossed the 6% passives in beta to balance the talents. Even with the 6%, the "best" 90 talent changed between HoTW and DoC depending on the encounter in mogushan vaults, at least. Which, as far as I know, was the developer's goal - to give us all actual choices in talents.

    Assuming the nerf goes in next Tuesday, there's not going to be a choice anymore, at least not one for HoTW. With the on-use part of HoTW neutered, the talent will be far below DoC & NV in the dps department and every top druid will drop it for them, which seems like quite a departure from nice, balanced talents. The nerf was not entirely unexpected, of course, because blizzard absolutely hates gear swaps in combat, but it's still a deviation from the "ideal," so to speak.
    Last edited by kaiadam; 2012-10-12 at 08:35 PM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    It's not supposed to be one. The DPS part is the 6% agi/int/sta bonus.
    Really? So why are there all the other DPS bonuses? Hell, why is it even a cool down if its not suposed to do anything?
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