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  1. #21
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kejinx View Post
    Use berserk for < 35% and if you fancy it, Incarnation, you will kill him in seconds if you aren't CCed even through second wind thanks to the insane damage Ravage does. Using Soul of the Forest or Treants, you will struggle to take one down. Just keep all bleeds rolling and savage roar up with a well timed Maim + shreds.
    Sounds great in theory, but doesn't apply to a good Warrior.

    A good Warrior will know when the burst is coming and will save Die By The Sword, Shield Wall, Kite With Heroic leap/Piercing howl and oh yeah use shockwave every 20 seconds.

    Rednine already mentioned defensive Stance and how stupid it is. Warriors get enough rage from Second Wind that there's no drawback for them to just sit in defensive stance with a 25% damage reduction.

    The thing that bothers me about Second Wind is that it doesn't require the Warrior to do anything and the fact that its endless. With all of the control and silences Warriors have with defensive stance and Second Wind, I'll never understand how they complain about 1v1s against Mages. Not to mention they have two reflects.

    Warriors also need their good abilities to actually cost something. Shockwave should not be free, it should at least cost 30 rage. Mass Spell Reflection should cost 15 along with this regular one. Avatar should cost 30 rage. About 80% of what Warriors do is absolutely free of resources and doesn't require any sort of risk. This is why defensive stance can be abused.

    Oh yeah, I can't wait till some people figure out how badly Sweeping Strikes can be abused.
    Last edited by Obelodalix; 2012-10-01 at 10:34 PM.

  2. #22
    The Patient dcuffel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    QQ
    Sounds like you're butthurt, from the way you sarcastically replace all the correct words with skill. Did a Warrior beat you? Are you a mad bro now?

  3. #23
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcuffel View Post
    Sounds like you're butthurt, from the way you sarcastically replace all the correct words with skill. Did a Warrior beat you? Are you a mad bro now?

    Warriors have the lowest skillcap in this game. There, I said it. I didn't get raped by a Warrior. I'm just tired of people saying how much Rogues, Mages, DK's, Warlocks take no skill, when Warriors have been always a mongo class but have gotten away with it because they've had two bad seasons.

    To me, you seemed upset over my post and became defensive. Instead of trying to debate me, you decide to take the immature opinion. Which is fine I guess.

  4. #24
    The thing I cannot understand is why have warriors use all their moves in one stance... Why can't druids then use all their moves in one form, etc. If they want warriors to be able to do that, then restrict their stances by their specialization. I understand that tanks were limited to Defensive Stance, but at least give the Defensive stance only to Protection warriors. It's plain stupid to have a constant Barkskin that is better than Barkskin itself.

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  5. #25
    i don't think its that bad, that warriors got some more "skill". Those that reroll him now will be very unhappy with the endless nerfs that follow via the patches pretty damn soon.

    I remember how for example unholy dk was turned from hero to zero at the start of cata by some insane amounts of hotfixes, and the warrior quickly followed.

    How second wind endlessly heals the warrior when he should be actually dead, is pure comedy atm, though. All those that got an execute should learn to use it, actually cc and execute, smart second skill warriors will use tons of cc too, cause they know what's coming for them.

  6. #26
    Second wind is way too op in pvp

  7. #27
    i am a full contender fought a feral that is a full contender as well. it went down to the last blow either one was able to win this one.
    he is a feral that knows how to play his class. that is probably the difference.

  8. #28
    Legendary! Luko's Avatar
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    Honestly, it just forces you to save CDs for when it matters; that last 35%, instead of blowing them initially for a scare tactic. It's not hard. It's a powerful talent, yes, but I'm reeeeaaaallly hoping it doesn't get nerfed. Honestly it's the first thing we've gotten in literal years that makes us more than a healing sponge in old content and goofing around with friends. Heaven forbid we don't take the game super seriously for a change.
    Listen kiddos, trust Handsome Jack. You want every part of this insanity.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    Warriors have the lowest skillcap in this game. There, I said it. I didn't get raped by a Warrior. I'm just tired of people saying how much Rogues, Mages, DK's, Warlocks take no skill, when Warriors have been always a mongo class but have gotten away with it because they've had two bad seasons.

    To me, you seemed upset over my post and became defensive. Instead of trying to debate me, you decide to take the immature opinion. Which is fine I guess.
    and why are you not banned yet ?
    all your posts are biased with no proper information at all. just class bashing useless posts.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypoxia View Post
    Yep they need to be fixed,but wait..blizzard doesnt care.
    Oh geez, Warlock complaining about Warrior self healing...the irony

  11. #31
    Pandaren Monk MaxJr's Avatar
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    They are OP right now, just like rogues were last patch just like frost mages have been since wow came out, its their turn now good for them.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    Warriors have the lowest skillcap in this game. There, I said it. I didn't get raped by a Warrior. I'm just tired of people saying how much Rogues, Mages, DK's, Warlocks take no skill, when Warriors have been always a mongo class but have gotten away with it because they've had two bad seasons.

    To me, you seemed upset over my post and became defensive. Instead of trying to debate me, you decide to take the immature opinion. Which is fine I guess.
    I LoLed...classes like Locks and Mages who have spammable CC sure have a tough life, oh wait...in an Arena 3vs3 setting casters shit on Warriors. I'm sorry you are mad that Warriors actually have some utility now such as Mass Spell Refect and Disruptive Shout(Granted no one will take disruptive shout over safeguard in arena).

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by lolpve View Post
    All self-healing should be removed completely. How is it fun to play a class knowing that the only reason you haven't already been raped is because of your passive OP healing?
    Do I dectend an old school vanilla player here? And, QFT!
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  14. #34
    I've killed 89 warriors with second wind as an 87 hunter. You're doing something very wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by lolpve View Post
    All self-healing should be removed completely. How is it fun to play a class knowing that the only reason you haven't already been raped is because of your passive OP healing?
    And fuck up my pve experience? Yeah, no.

  16. #36
    In case you didn't notice, I said that I didn't know what had changed. Had I know about this thing, I wouldn't have used my CDs so soon.

    Life is a series of choices between bad and worse.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by ardnut View Post
    Yes warriors are the strongest melee, but our anti class the mage is the strongest caster... So we are still going to be controlled or one shotted by any team that has a mage.
    We're the "strongest" melee against incompetent players. Literally every class in the game can kite a warrior to hell and back. We're as weak in 1v1 as ever. This projects on to team play by us having to be babysat just like always to be of any use outside of our 3 minute HoF/death wish which is an unbalancable pos anyways.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-01 at 05:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Memnarch View Post
    In case you didn't notice, I said that I didn't know what had changed. Had I know about this thing, I wouldn't have used my CDs so soon.
    Sorry it was more in response to people bitching about second wind being OP than your matchup.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    Sounds great in theory, but doesn't apply to a good Warrior.

    A good Warrior will know when the burst is coming and will save Die By The Skill, Skill Wall, Kite With Heroic skill/Piercing skill and oh yeah use Skillwave every 20 seconds.

    Rednine already mentioned Skillfensive Stance and how stupid it is. Warriors get enough rage from Second Skill that there's no drawback for them to just sit in skillfensive stance with a 25% damage reduction.

    The thing that bothers me about Second Skill is that it doesn't require the Warrior to do anything and the fact that its endless. With all of the control and silences Warriors have with Skillfensive stance and Second Skill, I'll never understand how they complain about 1v1s against Mages. Not to mention they have two reflects.

    Warriors also need their good abilities to actually cost something. Skillwave should not be free, it should at least cost 30 rage. Mass Skill Reflection should cost 15 along with this regular one. Skillvatar should cost 30 rage. About 80% of what Warriors do is absolutely free of resources and doesn't require any sort of risk. This is why Skillfensive stance can be abused.

    Oh yeah, I can't wait till some people figure out how badly Sweeping Strikes can be abused.
    With all those childish tag of Skill<xxxxxx> I guess someone can't handle how to play against a warrior, now they can now hold there own in pvp again (probably only for a while mind). All in all good to hear
    Science has made us gods even before we are worthy of being men: Jean Rostand. Yeah, Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair colour!.
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  19. #39
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BloodchargedWoW View Post
    I LoLed...classes like Locks and Mages who have spammable CC sure have a tough life, oh wait...in an Arena 3vs3 setting casters shit on Warriors. I'm sorry you are mad that Warriors actually have some utility now such as Mass Spell Refect and Disruptive Shout(Granted no one will take disruptive shout over safeguard in arena).
    I was talking about 1v1 Warrior vs Mage considering that's what Warriors love to talk about it and use it to justify why they need "Mobility Buffs."

    Ever since 5.0.4 launched, I've been destroying Mages on my Warrior. Why? Because every Warrior is essentially a Prot Warrior now because of the tools such as gag order and shockwave being baseline. When you fight a mage, you have to fight as if you were Prot. I think this is where most Warriors don't understand how to use the tools they have now. They've never played Prot seriously or in 1v1s. So they mongo like its Cataclysm Warrior season 9 and try to force the mage to blink and then charge followed up with one shot macro. When they fail, they die and then complain to the forums that Warriors don't do enough damage and don't have enough mobility.

    Here's a quick guide from me on how to beat about 80% of the mages you fight in any form of 1v1 combat.

    If you're not using Die By The Sword against a Mage, you're doing it wrong.

    If you're not using Shockwave Defensively, you're doing it wrong.

    If you're not using Gag Order glyph, glyph of heroic leap and glyph of Mortal Strike, you're doing it wrong.

    If you're not talented into Shockwave, Double Time, Second Wind, Piercing Howl and Mass Spell Reflection, you're doing it wrong.

    If you're not keeping the Mage slowed via hamstring or Piercing Howl, you're doing it wrong.

    If you're not using Intimidating Shout correctly or at all, you're doing it wrong.

    If you're not using a shield at least 50% of the fight, you're doing it wrong.

    If you're stacking Spell Reflect and Mass Spell Reflection together, you're doing it wrong.

    If you can't reflect at least one deep freeze, you're doing it wrong.

    If you're not trinketing a burst set up Deep Freeze followed with a spell reflection after the trinket, you're doing it wrong.

    If you use Shield Wall before Second Wind, you're doing it wrong.

    If you're using charge when the mage is 8 yards in front of you and he's silenced, you're doing it wrong.

    Basically, those are the simple guidelines I can tell. The whole fight is just a Second Wind fight. The longer the fight goes, the more it favors the Warrior. You have to pretty much make the Mage burn all of his cooldowns and try and stay alive as long as possible. Do not worry about damage. If you can find an opening where you know you have the mage cornered, pop one shot even though he'll probably have block for that. But the good thing is that a defensive mage is a dead mage.

    Rallying cry should literally be your last cooldown if you're really low and do not have Shield Wall or Die by the sword. It will save your life if you do screw up and let the mage burst you.

    Reflecting a Deep Freeze is possible if you have a lot of experience. I'm going to say about 40% of Mages you fight will put you in a nova, walk 4 yards and cast Deep Freeze. You're not going to believe how many Deep Freezes I reflect when I charge, get nova'd, hit reflect and bam, mage is deep frozen. Of course, a good mage will not do this and make his deep freezes inconsistent. Try to find out when a Mage likes to use Deep Freeze. It becomes some sort of mind game in the end.

    Its also a good idea to use Shockwave correctly. Instead of using it to deal damage to the mage, you should use it to stop the mage from dealing damage to you, and letting Second Wind tick those 4 seconds. For example, if you charge a mage, he nova's you, use shockwave to stop him from getting that damage on you. After he is out of shockwave, use heroic throw and then get on his ass with a hamstring followed with a mortal strike. As soon as his silence ends, hit whichever reflect you have available and you will get a spell reflection because most mages will be desperate to get a spell off.

    Don't be sad if you shockwave a mage and he blinks. That's actually good because you charge or heroic leap him right after. Once you get stuck in the nova, use intimidating shout and then get close to his ass and beat him up with a pummel into a damage rotation. I yeah i forgot to mention that pummeling a mage right after a charge is really really good even though it feels awkward. You don't want to use pummel to often though because of DR with heroic throw. Heroic throw is really good when both reflects are on cooldown or you just want to put pressure on the mage.

    Don't get sad if a mage is using Evocation. That's pretty much the sign of the mage getting desperate, probably at his last big cooldown. For you its the light at the end of the tunnel. If you have heroic throw up, make sure you use that shit.

    Last thing to mention is that I can't stress how important it is to keep the mage snared. Everytime you get nova's use piercing howl. Moving at 100% speed baseline is really a bad weakness considering most classes can run at 115% or even 125% movement speed. Also try and keep a shield out for most of the fight just because of the GCD issues with weapon swapping. You do not want to be constantly weapon swapping. You're not going to believe the amount of times I try to use the refect macro and my warrior gets caught in a deep freeze while using a shield but reflect was a second too late. Only swap to a two hander when you know you can actually deal damage.

    And find a mage friend to practice this shit with. That's how you get good against Mages. The whole fight is using all of your tools correctly and not falling prey to burst damage. I think this is why most Warriors have trouble against Mages compared to the other casters. Warriors can just mongo through other casters where as fighting a mage requires you to play the class completely differently. I would even argue that fighting a good Warlock is a harder fight for a Warrior just because of the self healing, ridiculous dot damage and melee protection Warlocks got this expansion. But that's another story for another day.

    Hope this helps.

  20. #40
    secondskill is indeed the right word for it, they dont even have to do anything, passive healing should be gone

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