Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #21
    Those are the facts? I guess I'll just shut up now. But thanks for the laughs.

  2. #22
    "laughs" as in, you're in some top 100 US guilds, or EU, which means 0 after WoTLK.
    Factors, which classes going to be stacked: SMF Fury Warriors, Affliction Warlocks, Mages (unless the situation demands otherwise.)
    Please, go find yourself somewhere that casuals post.

  3. #23
    I have, this is mmo-champion. Perhaps you mistook it for elitist jerks? The color schemes are similar.

  4. #24
    I have, this is mmo-champion. Perhaps you mistook it for elitist jerks? The color schemes are similar.
    Elitist Jerks > MMO-Champions for theorycrafting.
    If you need further facts, go look at the beta testing logs IF you have access to any top world guilds logs (or US for that matter) and you'll see full 2h Frost.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Frstypwn View Post
    Elitist Jerks > MMO-Champions for theorycrafting.
    If you need further facts, go look at the beta testing logs IF you have access to any top world guilds logs (or US for that matter) and you'll see full 2h Frost.
    Elitist Jerks gives stats/tips/suggestions for 2H *and* DW, and suggests gemming for hit/exp/haste/mastery...

    Just sayin'.

  6. #26
    Elitist Jerks gives stats/tips/suggestions for 2H *and* DW, and suggests gemming for hit/exp/haste/mastery...

    Just sayin'.
    Elitist Jerks also goes in depth if you read the comments, the theorycrafting can get pretty in-depth.

    Red [Bold Primordial Ruby]
    Yellow [Fierce Vermilion Onyx]
    Yellow [Skillful Vermilion Onyx]
    Blue [Etched Imperial Amethyst]
    Blue [Accurate Imperial Amethyst]
    Yellow [Quick Sun's Radiance]
    Yellow [Fractured Sun's Radiance]
    Those do not looked like Expertise gems in red sockets.
    The yellow sockets show haste / mastery, but it is debatable.
    Again, when heroic progression begins look at any top ranking death knight, look at logs if you have access, and tell me your findings, which I already know the conclusion of.

  7. #27
    Checked the armories or people within the top first guilds and they are all gemming for str so I would think that is way to go.

  8. #28
    Been running with haste for a few heroics, Its hard but Frost is so RNG, The highest I´ve ever had with str gems with full burst on a boss is 91k on a 2-3 min fight. but now with haste gems the highest I´ve ever had was around 70k, this is a fight without any kind of AOE, Army on Pull etc. Seems I will go back to Stre gems.

    Keep in mind that Iam full BIS pre raiding and that I had the same buffs as with stre gems.

    Also think thats stre will be the winner when it comes to things like Challange modes etc.

    Gonna miss having 50% haste tho:<
    Last edited by Rashi; 2012-10-02 at 07:10 AM.

  9. #29
    Just looked a EJ today and this was posted verbatim:

    Currently the best gems for each socket color:
    Color Gem
    Red [Bold Primordial Ruby]
    Yellow [Fierce Vermilion Onyx]
    Yellow [Skillful Vermilion Onyx]
    Blue [Etched Imperial Amethyst]
    Blue [Accurate Imperial Amethyst]
    Yellow [Quick Sun's Radiance]
    Yellow [Fractured Sun's Radiance]

    Link here

    Obviously the Mastery ones are for DW and the Haste ones are for 2h, but it looks like its best to meet the slot requirements which, honestly supports most of what I have read during the Beta.

  10. #30
    Blizzard did say they wanted it to be a hard choice to take primary or secondary stats, or at least make them more even... looks like they succeeded a little to well.

  11. #31
    Running sims showed me that gemming str or haste gave the same exact DPS, give or take 10 DPS max.
    I deduct that you gem whatever the fuck you want to.

    Fluid gameplay with barely any downtime = haste
    Hard hitting irregular strikes = str

    pick your poison.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaosbringer View Post
    Just looked a EJ today and this was posted verbatim:

    Currently the best gems for each socket color:
    Color Gem
    Red [Bold Primordial Ruby]
    Yellow [Fierce Vermilion Onyx]
    Yellow [Skillful Vermilion Onyx]
    Blue [Etched Imperial Amethyst]
    Blue [Accurate Imperial Amethyst]
    Yellow [Quick Sun's Radiance]
    Yellow [Fractured Sun's Radiance]

    Link here

    Obviously the Mastery ones are for DW and the Haste ones are for 2h, but it looks like its best to meet the slot requirements which, honestly supports most of what I have read during the Beta.
    Yeah, if it wasn't for the fact Pullo isn't updating the guide accordantly. I'd rather follow simulationcraft sims, simply because they're the most updated and they are what the all theorycrafting is based on. Just take at look at this http://simulationcraft.org/505/Raid_..._Frost_2h_T14H
    320 haste in yellows, 80 str/160 haste in reds. Unless someone proves me that the difference is minimal with real evidence, I'm still confused to what to gem for. This all thread was to prevent me to waste time on the matter and actually run the simulations by myself :/

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Frstypwn View Post
    Elitist Jerks also goes in depth if you read the comments, the theorycrafting can get pretty in-depth.


    Those do not looked like Expertise gems in red sockets.
    The yellow sockets show haste / mastery, but it is debatable.
    Again, when heroic progression begins look at any top ranking death knight, look at logs if you have access, and tell me your findings, which I already know the conclusion of.
    But who was saying that you'd never gem STR in red sockets?

    You said "STR is the best stat", implying that gemming for anything but Bolds is stupid (by also saying that you lost "dps gemming as you mentioned."

    You're not following the flow of conversation very well.

    Sure, Bolds for reds. But a mix of hit/exp/haste/mastery for the other slots.

    Also, you mock people for mentioning DW Frost, but posters on EJ clearly submit content about it. Go mock them too, you bad boy you.

  14. #34
    People seem to be confusing stat weights with optimal gem strategy. They are not the same. Reforging discussions are irrelevant, since no matter what you will be reforging to a secondary stat and can just go with whatever gets you closest to hit/exp caps without going over. If you want to gem hit/exp and then reforge to all haste/mastery go ahead, but the outcome will be the same as if you had reforged to hit/exp and then gemmed for haste/mastery.

    SIMULATIONS have haste somewhere in the ~0.6 range (strength = 1). Meaning that from a gem perspective 1 quick gem is better than 1 bold gem (haste is not better than strength point for point though). So, if simulations are to be believed then the "correct" way to gem would be

    red = haste/strength or mastery/strength
    yellow = haste or mastery
    blue = depends on whether you are using gems or reforging to reach hit/exp cap.

    If you don't believe simulations or want to see actual raid parses, then I would go with strength, haste/strength or mastery strength, and strength/hit.

  15. #35
    Not necessarily bolds for reds. Again, you want to look at the value of each stat on gems, include the socket bonus, and add it all up.

    For example, imagine you have a red socket with a 60 strength socket bonus and are under the expertise cap. This first set of scenarios uses the DW frost stat weights I generated earlier in the thread.

    Bold Primordial Ruby (red 160 str)
    160 STR * 3.52 = 563.2
    60 STR * 3.52 = 211.2
    563.2 + 211.2 = 774.4 total value

    Precise Primordial Ruby (red 320 exp)
    320 exp * 2.20 = 704
    60 STR * 3.52 = 211.2
    704 + 211.2 = 915.2 total value

    Obviously gemming expertise is the way to go here, if you're under the cap. Now lets assume you're already capped for expertise but not hit.

    Etched Imperial Amethyst (purple 80 str, 160 hit)
    80 str * 3.52 = 281.6
    160 hit * 2.2 = 352.0
    60 str * 3.52 = 211.2
    281.6 + 352 + 211.2 = 844.8

    Rigid River's Heart (blue 320 hit)
    320 hit * 2.2 = 704 total value

    The purple gem also significantly beats the straight strength one. However gemming straight hit doesn't because you lose the socket bonus. Now lets look at the other secondary stats. Remember you're DW frost so you want mastery.

    Skillful Vermillion Onyx (orange 80 str, 160 mastery)
    80 str * 3.52 = 281.6
    160 mastery * 1.5 - 240
    60 str * 3.52 = 211.2
    281.6 + 240 + 211.2 = 732.8

    As you can see, gemming mastery for DW frost does not make sense, since strength (3.52) is over twice as valuable as mastery (1.50). But what if you were 2H frost and looking to gem haste (1.55) over strength (2.86)?

    Bold Primordial Ruby (red 160 str)
    160 str * 2.86 = 457.6
    60 str * 2.86 = 171.6
    457.6 + 171.6 = 629.2

    Fierce Vermillion Onyx (orange 80 str, 160 haste)
    80 str * 2.86 = 228.8
    160 haste * 1.55 = 248.0
    60 str * 2.86 = 171.6
    228.8 + 248.0 + 171.6 = 648.4

    This shows why it makes sense to gem haste for 2H frost. It's over half as valuable as strength, and you can get twice as much of it on gems. Is it a big improvement? No, definitely not. But it is technically the optimal way to go.

    If EJ says otherwise, they're wrong. It's happened before and it will again-- Consider isn't writing the guides these days, and their traffic is way down.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2012-10-02 at 12:29 PM.

  16. #36
    I'll probably gem towards stacking haste as 2h Frost. In my unscientific opinion, I hate my slow, near-10 second rune charge on my blues/greens DK. I need to hit buttons, man

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Frstypwn View Post
    "laughs" as in, you're in some top 100 US guilds, or EU, which means 0 after WoTLK.
    Factors, which classes going to be stacked: SMF Fury Warriors, Affliction Warlocks, Mages (unless the situation demands otherwise.)
    Please, go find yourself somewhere that casuals post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frstypwn View Post
    "laughs" as in, you're in some top 100 US guilds, or EU, which means 0 after WoTLK.
    Factors, which classes going to be stacked: SMF Fury Warriors, Affliction Warlocks, Mages (unless the situation demands otherwise.)
    Please, go find yourself somewhere that casuals post.
    Get off your high horse. You haven't posted data for any of your claims. Your argument is basically "Rammy and all the other DKs are doing it; get owned scrub." I guess you disagree with EJ about Runic Empowerment being a superior choice to RC as well? You were claiming as such on a thread here and over on the official forums as well. If you post against the data-driven status quo on EJ, you better have evidence for your claim or Carebare might slap you.

    2H could very well be the superior choice for progression. I've seen better results from 2H personally but that's simply ANECDOTAL evidence. Name calling doesn't prove your point, it just makes you look arrogant and defensive. Feel free to post those logs that support your claims; it would be helpful to see them.
    Last edited by Projali; 2012-10-02 at 06:13 PM.

  18. #38
    Get off your high horse. You haven't posted data for any of your claims. Your argument is basically "Rammy and all the other DKs are doing it; get owned scrub." I guess you disagree with EJ about Runic Empowerment being a superior choice to RC as well? You were claiming as such on a thread here and over on the official forums as well. If you post against the data-driven status quo on EJ, you better have evidence for your claim or Carebare might slap you.

    2H could very well be the superior choice for progression. I've seen better results from 2H personally but that's simply ANECDOTAL evidence. Name calling doesn't prove your point, it just makes you look arrogant and defensive. Feel free to post those logs that support your claims; it would be helpful to see them.
    Okay, look at wowprogress.
    Currently for normal modes my guild is ranked #2 for 25m (10m doesn't matter really), and if you look at logs the death knights who are gemming haste / expertise / hit are losing to our Death Knight (Gicks) who is gemming strength.

    Although I haven't been on because I have been busy, I will be having logs up.
    You can go do what you wish, but you won't be putting up the same numbers in comparison (especially if you go DW.)

  19. #39
    Your DK also has the 476 weapon... Kinda makes a huge difference compared to the billion other dks that don't have one...

    After doing sufficient stalking of various people's armories... There appears to be an equal number of top DKs gemming Haste as there are gemming Strength.

    I'm not saying your DK isn't great, they're ranked in the top 10 in the world on several fights, but one night of raiding doesn't really tell the tale and we'll see as more people get to it
    Last edited by kaelleria; 2012-10-03 at 03:34 PM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Frstypwn View Post
    Okay, look at wowprogress.
    Currently for normal modes my guild is ranked #2 for 25m (10m doesn't matter really), and if you look at logs the death knights who are gemming haste / expertise / hit are losing to our Death Knight (Gicks) who is gemming strength.

    Although I haven't been on because I have been busy, I will be having logs up.
    You can go do what you wish, but you won't be putting up the same numbers in comparison (especially if you go DW.)
    So, you keep mentioning "World 100" guilds and whatnot, and trash-talking, and all that...

    Your guild was ranked 10,307 in T13, 7,166 in T12, and 2,547 in T11. So, yeah, kindly step-off with that shit.

    And one "guildies" logs is still anecdotal data.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •