1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by vynka View Post
    Imperial Vizier maybe?
    If you need a speed boost to avoid discs then you're terrible.

  2. #222
    Better example may be windlord at the end, when you need to dodge whirling blades and dont have a safe blink route due to windbombs. Speedboost on the boots can help. Granted watching your position so you dont get blink/trapped by bombs works too.

    It one of those personal choice perk things imo, i personally like the speed boost on the boots cause it can come in handy in many small ways for getting into position or out of crap (to say nothing of just running faster in general) - blink is great, but it doesn't always work to save your ass (on CD, or hello there pebble, or rng screwing you)

  3. #223
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Yeah, speed boost isn't a matter of dodging shit, it's a matter of getting where you're going 8% faster. In my gear, the difference between the two enchants while standing still is 181 DPS. You can likely make up for that if you have to move as little as 7-8 seconds over the duration of a whole fight. Given how much more mobility we have now versus back in Wrath, it's hard to use the old math to figure it out exactly. You'd have to account for the DPS of a scorch based system instead of frostbolt, and what the DPS difference is using scorch vs frostbolt with haste enchant and scorch-8% duration vs frostbolt with the mastery/speed enchant, and what the gains would be for the movement in any given fight's movement amounts. Add blink in there, if applicable to what you're doing (not Zor'lok's discs).

    And I'm much too lazy and busy to do that.
    Last edited by Kuni Zyrekai; 2012-12-19 at 09:00 PM.

  4. #224
    What do I use for AOE when I do trash in raids and heroic 5 mans? Thanks for the help in advance.

  5. #225
    Don't forget the new mechanics. The speed boost helps run away from Ta'yak's Blade Tempest or towards Lei Shi during Get Away!, for example.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by ogFrenikk View Post
    If you need a speed boost to avoid discs then you're terrible.
    Not talking about that, more like the barriers in Force and Verve.


  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by vynka View Post
    Not talking about that, more like the barriers in Force and Verve.
    Blink to the one you need to be in?

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by ogFrenikk View Post
    Blink to the one you need to be in?
    That only works if it is exactly 20y away from you.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by ogFrenikk View Post
    Blink to the one you need to be in?
    Tsulong. Can only blink 1 way. How are you gonna get out of the beam?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Tsulong. Can only blink 1 way. How are you gonna get out of the beam?
    Press W I would imagine. But Im not changing my boot enchant for one mechanic on one boss out of 16.

  11. #231
    Elemental Lord Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmzac View Post
    The only reason you would change it is if you were using frost bomb instead of nether tempest in which case you would swap light of the cosmos for relic of yu'lon. This is also why relic of yu'lon is bis on a lot of the other bis lists because frost bomb sims better on patchwerk fights which this expansion don't exist.
    Lol fuck sims. Frost Bomb is just the only choice :P

    Progression pre-nerfed: [T17] 6/7H; 0/10N

  12. #232
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    Lol fuck sims. Frost Bomb is just the only choice :P
    That quote is from 2 weeks ago :P I'm using frost bomb for everything now and doing amazing dps. (at least from my point of view)
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  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by ogFrenikk View Post
    Press W I would imagine. But Im not changing my boot enchant for one mechanic on one boss out of 16.
    I play WoW in german, so I don´t know the exact names of the abilities in english


    Stone Guard heroic - you need to walk for restacking buff, run to mate if you chained, dodge ice traps and "that purple void"
    Feng heroic - dodge lightning fists with walking not blinking, you can blink only in 1 direction if you have wildfire spark on you, blink in walk out, if he cast arcane velocity
    Garajal heroic - totem spawn in boss or raid, you have to adjust your position - blink would make no sense
    4k heroic - you have to run a lot with your raid in p1 because of Massive Attacks , blink if you got trapped by arrows, for flanking orders you need blink and walk most of the time
    elegon heroic - step out for add explosion, run and blinking to your position during transition (and back of course)
    will of the emporer heroic - using blink nearly on cd for soaking sparks - lot of movement involved
    Zorlok heroic - attenuation last 12s, if the boss cast, refresh frostbolt debuff run around and refresh - you won´t lose debuff - thanks to boot enchant, switching platforms with blink and walk, dancing in p2 need a lot of walk
    blade lord heroic - lot of movement involved, already using glyph of blink for that fight, with boot enchant your 8% faster from one side to the other during p2, during blade tempest glyphed blink and 8% boot enchant allows me to snatch 1 frostbolt, then running back to my position, blink in for unseen and walk back to your position
    garalon heroic - lot of movement involved (kiting pheromones, adjusting positons all the time, because the boss moves and you have to step into healers circles
    windlord heroic - dodging blade with blink makes no sense, dodging windbombs with blink makes no sense - so a lot of little steps are needed

    ... and so forth
    Last edited by citizenpete; 2012-12-20 at 01:44 PM.

  14. #234
    I have just run my Frost mage through simcraft to get weights. I left all the defaults settings untouched and ran it for three fight styles:
    Patchwerk, HelterSkelters, and Light Movement. There were no surprises in the first two, in fact they came out very close to the default weight in Ask Mr Robot. But for the light movement it is giving Crit a slightly higher weight than Haste (1.43 vs 1.41). Any opinions on this? Since there is some movement in every fight I have seen so far, should I follow this weights or stick with haste?

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    I play WoW in german, so I don´t know the exact names of the abilities in english


    Stone Guard heroic - you need to walk for restacking buff, run to mate if you chained, dodge ice traps and "that purple void"
    Feng heroic - dodge lightning fists with walking not blinking, you can blink only in 1 direction if you have wildfire spark on you, blink in walk out, if he cast arcane velocity
    Garajal heroic - totem spawn in boss or raid, you have to adjust your position - blink would make no sense
    4k heroic - you have to run a lot with your raid in p1 because of Massive Attacks , blink if you got trapped by arrows, for flanking orders you need blink and walk most of the time
    elegon heroic - step out for add explosion, run and blinking to your position during transition (and back of course)
    will of the emporer heroic - using blink nearly on cd for soaking sparks - lot of movement involved
    Zorlok heroic - attenuation last 12s, if the boss cast, refresh frostbolt debuff run around and refresh - you won´t lose debuff - thanks to boot enchant, switching platforms with blink and walk, dancing in p2 need a lot of walk
    blade lord heroic - lot of movement involved, already using glyph of blink for that fight, with boot enchant your 8% faster from one side to the other during p2, during blade tempest glyphed blink and 8% boot enchant allows me to snatch 1 frostbolt, then running back to my position, blink in for unseen and walk back to your position
    garalon heroic - lot of movement involved (kiting pheromones, adjusting positons all the time, because the boss moves and you have to step into healers circles
    windlord heroic - dodging blade with blink makes no sense, dodging windbombs with blink makes no sense - so a lot of little steps are needed

    ... and so forth
    Alot of those examples are a simple 1 second strafe, less than a GCD. I think I'll let you have Blade Lord. Windlord blade dodge is a short strafe. I fill alot of my movement on Will with applying NT and using procs. Stone Guard is pretty movement heavy if you're assigned to stacks yes but dodging ice cystals is a strafe and chains arent up every week.

    We could argue this all day but you won't change my mind that the movement enchant is useless. And many other top mages agree.

  16. #236
    Don't underestimate short movements. Especially if they're common and unpredictable.

    Also, chains are guaranteed in 25.

  17. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by ogFrenikk View Post
    Alot of those examples are a simple 1 second strafe, less than a GCD. I think I'll let you have Blade Lord. Windlord blade dodge is a short strafe. I fill alot of my movement on Will with applying NT and using procs. Stone Guard is pretty movement heavy if you're assigned to stacks yes but dodging ice cystals is a strafe and chains arent up every week.

    We could argue this all day but you won't change my mind that the movement enchant is useless. And many other top mages agree.
    you are not arguing, you are just saying "i´ll going to apply nt when i have to move and using proccs o_O You must have the biggest proc uptime in wow history. I would save the proccs for 2 gathered adds by the way.
    Running up to 12 - 13s on Zor'lok is a short strafe? Not interessted by refreshing your debuff? Okay, maybe you running on the outer circles and blink to the boss after approx 8 - 10 seconds, but before that, you have to move. Changing plattforms is a short strafe? Dancing in P2 is a short strafe? Running from echo to the boss is a short strafe? You can`t just strafe on windlord at the end of the fight if you on cc or/and kick duty, if the tanks have to pull the boss.
    Kiting with pheromones is a short strafe? To get to your destination point for pheromone delivery is a short strafe?

    Your Stone Guard "argument" made me laugh - not in a condescending way. I don´t need to move, because that, that, that and that could not happen - maybe?
    You´re not moving on 4k? That´s a bad idea
    You don´t move on elegon? Another bad idea.
    Let me gues, on Feng your just applying nt and using procs all the time, if you have to move?
    Same game on sha?
    What about empress?
    What about Ambershaper? Your not running from Amber Scalpel?

    A strafe is no movement? So why theorycrafting? Why to perfect a rotation? Just seconds, so pffft.


    Quote Originally Posted by ogFrenikk View Post
    And many other top mages agree.
    Top mages like? You?

    P.S. The difference beetween 175 haste and 140 mastery are about 131 dps for me. The average dmg of a frostbolt in a fight are 71k (took garajal for example) for me. Assumed I can squeeze just 1 more frostbolt in, I´ve gain 197dps (already deducted 20% iv buff) in a 360s fight.

    But seriously, even if not:

    Garajal DPS 111390
    With haste entchant on boots ~130dps more

    Thats 0.1%. Not worth a discussion like this
    Last edited by citizenpete; 2012-12-21 at 12:58 PM.

  18. #238
    Hi guys,

    Just a question about Bomb choice on single target fights.
    Since playing frost i have believed as some said than NT > FB on single targets and i also really like being able to cast NT while moving during some fights but i just found than on Freeze targets FB tick would do some really nice damages.

    Did you make some math to show how much FB would be > to NT on single targets ??

    Just asking cauz i would like to know if its worth picking it. Would the extra damage being superiour enough to make the cast time forgetable ??

    PS : Sry if i made some mistakes in my post, english is not my mother language.

  19. #239
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    You can start here.

    But on frozen target, you can assume that Frost Bomb is always superior than the two others. Because full damage is being include for Shatter.
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  20. #240
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wupavz View Post
    Hi guys,

    Just a question about Bomb choice on single target fights.
    Since playing frost i have believed as some said than NT > FB on single targets and i also really like being able to cast NT while moving during some fights but i just found than on Freeze targets FB tick would do some really nice damages.

    Did you make some math to show how much FB would be > to NT on single targets ??

    Just asking cauz i would like to know if its worth picking it. Would the extra damage being superiour enough to make the cast time forgetable ??

    PS : Sry if i made some mistakes in my post, english is not my mother language.
    There has been math done but it hasn't really provided a definitive answer. For a time nether tempest was better and then frost bomb was better and now I'm not sure.

    Frost bomb is easier as it offers predictable brain freeze procs and imo it does more damage on a single target. The main thing to remember is that you can't use frost bomb if you have Light of the Cosmos as a trinket.

    I would recommend using both quite a bit until your comfortable using both then make your own decision on what you find works better. For me that was frost bomb.
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