1. #2021
    Quote Originally Posted by gallamann View Post
    Akraen/Mastamage I see you both like to snapshot your procs, do you use a WeakAura to alert you when trinket procs have pushed Spell Power/Intellect past certain thresholds? If so could you share?

    I have an aura set up but in the heat of an encounter it is easy to miss the aura (no audio alert which I will try to add). The other issue is damn proc goes for 10 seconds and at the top end you need to be super fast to get a Bomb back up (you get a whole second at maxed stats).
    I only use TMW with timers overlaid for tracking procs and since the change to 10 sec durations its much easier to track stacking trinkets like Wushoolay. I have a very good memory of what's proccing what was last procced when trying to decide to snapshot or not. Using my peripheral vision I can immediately see what's come up and make a decision based on that.

    Casting once procs happen is important but even more important is the snapshot right before your trinkets/meta/lust are about to fall off. Especially on the pull: BoH, Wush, Meta, Hero all up and AT w/ 6 secs left on trinkets - snapshot - AT takes you back - reapply bomb right before trinkets and meta fall off.

    Edit: some of my trinkets have the int value on the TMW icons.
    Edit: also on my ipad and don't feel like typing out a whole scenario but you should be able to tell what's going on
    Last edited by Mastamage; 2013-09-24 at 06:15 PM.

  2. #2022
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    @Boxed

    Yeah we want to do the same order, but we want to kill the boss before the fire. No sorry, I don´t have any footage with arcane, because of our lag problems (which seems to be way more worse on our server according to tracert and some Blizzard employees). I will try to stream tonight (in ~3 hours), but maybe I will try frost again, who knows :P
    Wish I could check it out, but I'll be at work for another couple hours, and them I'm off to a soccer game.

  3. #2023
    Deleted
    How can you americans call a game were you carry a ball (egg) with your HANDS "football", and a game were you nearly all of the time play with your FOOT "soccer"? :P
    Now I have some twitch footage with arcane on spoils heroic (boss was stronger than us : / but 9/14 is not a bad thing in first week). I switched one time to frost and it feelt like I switched from damage to smite o_O It was so ridiculously low. Arcane bomb is what keep Arcane viable here, fire is not that bad too, but frost...

  4. #2024
    Deleted
    At this point, it's the MoP design that fail with so much shared spell. It's more difficult to balance them because they are used with the 3 spec and is used with the bonus of each spec. For bomb, it should have require to remove them from Mastery, like Ignite. Just imagine if DoT's crit generate Ignite, all fire mage would have play with Frost bomb to have a very big Ignite for Combustion ... But I decrease a little here.

    @Pete: yep !!
    (I haven't exact value because they still haven't been datamined)

    (base*1.2 + coef*1.2*SP)*4*2*1.25*1.15*1.2 (3*0.4)
    (old damage + buff)*frozen*critique*FoF*L90*T16 (IV glyph)

    the new damage will be : 349*1.2 + 33.5%*1.2 = 418.8 + 40.2%

    At 42k sp and 28% crit, FoF-IL will do :
    • before : 166k (165,819)
    • after : 199k (198,982) [+19.9995%]

    In you're example (51k sp),
    200k*1.2k = 240k
    +T16 = 288k
    +IV glyph = 3*0.4*288k = 3*115.2 = 345.6
    +cleave = 518.4k, but the number will be : 3*115.2k + 3*57.6k

    For comparison, Frost bomb will do : 207.5k / 415k on single target.

  5. #2025
    Deleted
    FoF IL hit like a truck in this case, but after 9 heroic bosses I have to say that our weakest spot is the bomb. Snapshotting can be really rewarding with Frost, but it is way stronger and more rewarding with Arcane.

    Fights with many targets (e.g. Spoils) look always the same: You rarely cast AB, you have tons of AM and you dot targets with nearly always 100% Mana. I have around 87% mastery now, which means NT does 87% more damage. If I will focus my gear progression on Mastery, I will hit 95 - 100% Mana very soon, which means, that an Arcane bomb will be twice stronger (before haste, of course) than a Frost bomb. A player who is pretty good with snapshotting will get way more out of the Arcane spec than of Frost.

    I still prefer Frost, dont like the slow and turret style of Arcane, but Frost is - even with the recent buffs - miles behind Arcane and will be outscaled by Fire (and Arcane) pretty soon. I plan to play frost tonight for all of our rekills to bring a few logs to the table, but my progression spec is still Arcane.

  6. #2026
    Not sure if this has been answered before but with 2pc T16, does it work like heating up and 2 spells can benefit from it at the same time? ( I.E Launch frostbolt and follow up immediately with a FoF icelance )

    I would test it myself but I only have 1pc of T16

  7. #2027
    Deleted
    Tested it on PTR and only 1 spell was affected by the buff, but the T16 4p was sometimes additionally affected by "Frozen Thoughst". Dunno if they fixed it.

  8. #2028
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    Tested it on PTR and only 1 spell was affected by the buff, but the T16 4p was sometimes additionally affected by "Frozen Thoughst". Dunno if they fixed it.
    fixed this it only proc from BF now, but it can crit.

  9. #2029
    Deleted
    Not a good news, because extra damage is always welcome :P I don´t know why Arcane 2p + 3 WF Offset > 4p, but frost is 4p > 2p + 3 WF Offset even on multiple targets (according to SimC 5.40-1)

  10. #2030

  11. #2031
    Is there a haste cap for frost? Sitting at 16k haste atm.

  12. #2032
    Suggestion to mods: any way we can trim the fat for this thread? 102 pages with the majority being older content.

  13. #2033
    Deleted
    @masta : strating a new one with a new guide (for 5.5/6.0 ?)
    @Species : there's a cap at 53.84%. After this point, there 2 schools: mastery & haste (and every thing in between). So you have time ...

  14. #2034
    So on Monday before the Buff to Ice Lance I was sitting mid of the pack in my raid as frost and I was happy. Then last night after the Buff Holy Crap. The damage is fantastic just what we needed. I still think like everyone else IL needs to scale with a secondary stat but, Hey Ill take what I an get. Like I was saying Mid of the pack on Monday to Almost ahead of our rouge who let's say is God Like and Knows how to play his class last night.

  15. #2035
    Mastery-stacked frost is definitely great for single targets like juggernaut, I did ~282k on our rekill today and I think that particular fight is one where frost does well since it's less penalized by random movement than arcane. Shamans and Malkorok might be ok as frost too. Can't say I'd do Spoils, Paragons or Blackfuse as anything but arcane though.

    I really think spam stacking haste is the wrong way to go on a single target fight like IJ. Icicles were 21% of my damage and spam stacking haste to boost NT isn't benefiting you much on one target where LB is better anyway. The top frost parses I've seen for that fight so far appear to be arcane mages just specced frost in their arcane gear.

    The biggest thing is that haste isn't -fun-. Given that most of us who play frost play it because we like it more than because it tops meters, mastery makes sense because it's more fun to see 200K icicles than to have a 0.6 second frostbolt cast during lust and see BF procs be repeatedly overwritten.

  16. #2036
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by citrique View Post
    The biggest thing is that haste isn't -fun-. Given that most of us who play frost play it because we like it more than because it tops meters, mastery makes sense because it's more fun to see 200K icicles than to have a 0.6 second frostbolt cast during lust and see BF procs be repeatedly overwritten.
    I got my 2p last raid and tested the playstyle yesterday. dps-wise it was fine compared to our other mages and guild (not that it means anything except that my GM can't force me to respec). However, I think haste value decreases with 2p because you will get even more procs from NT which overwrite themselves, since spamming BF-FFB should be a dps loss over BF-FFB ->FoF-IL->BF-FFB->FoF-IL.

  17. #2037
    Quote Originally Posted by Light4 View Post
    However, I think haste value decreases with 2p because you will get even more procs from NT which overwrite themselves, since spamming BF-FFB should be a dps loss over BF-FFB ->FoF-IL->BF-FFB->FoF-IL.
    How so? Unless you get proc overwrites, any combination of two BF and two FoF will result in the same DPS.

  18. #2038
    Deleted
    Played Frost till Galakras yesterday. Was very nice to "be back again" : ) Beeing able to avoid nearly every random target mechanic without dps loss was a great feeling. Played with ~54% Haste and 57% Mastery, but I got insight about bombs very quickly: It makes no sense to spam them as frost! You lose a lot of icicles damage and (compared to arcane) a lot of overall damage. It is still the spec with the same problems, 20% buff to Ice Lance and 10% to WB doesn´t fix anything.

    Fun with frost aside, our beloved spec is still inferior in nearly every thinkable situations. First I will show you guys some numbers with my gear (561, nothing special)

    Both specs with 41500 sp Frost 54% haste, 57% mastery 24% crit Arcane with 100% Mana: 31% haste, 87% mastery, 24% crit (to make it as fair as possible, I will compare DPET not dmg) @ 1 target

    Frost: 268254 Nether Tempest, 301909 Living Bomb, 33265 Arcane Explosion, 58154 glyphed CoC, 34185 Blizzard
    Arca.: 534356 Nether Tempest, 645649 Living Bomb, 74547 Arcane Explosion (89456 with AP), 130320 glyphed CoC, 74618 Blizzard

    Multidotting, constant and burst AoE (outside Frozen Orb) are an Arcane job, clearly!

    As frost you even don´t have a slot for glyphed CoC most of the time, because 2x blink, selfheal etc. is needed for many encounter. Single target is still also favoured by arcane. Where are the "frost fights?" Well, maybe the ones with a chunk load of movement (didn´t had any serious problems so far) and maybe 2 targets after the FoF buff, but I still doubt it.
    The problem is scaling: In T14 and T15 Arcane mastery was not a problem, but now we will have up to 103% Mastery in BiS gear. Arcane will pull more and more ahead Frost. Arcane will not become an OP spec, because other specs (fire) and classes will scale reasonably. Nerfing Arcane is not a solution imho, but changing frost is one!
    We always said in this thread, that frost will have a problem with scaling beginning at the end of T14. We are in T15 now, we can upgrade items from the beginning and the new mastery is ill thought through for PvE.

    I did a lot of testing yesterday (Dummy, heroic scenario, raids) and arcane was always the clear winner. I don´t think that I unlearnt to play frost, it is just that Arcane is stronger. Fire is still decent and will become a beast with more gear (hi @ pyroblast) - but fire is more worse than arcane for me.

    I don´t think I´m a whiner - hell, I progressed even sinestra with frost - but this time I will not play the way inferior spec! A band-aid till 5.5/6.0 could be another buff to.... hm well. They can`t buff bombs for frost, they will not make Ice Lance scale with mastery, so maybe another FoF IL or BF FFB buff with PvP coefficient could be the baind-aid solution till next xpac. But to be honest, I don´t see another buff to frost. Frost is still the pvp spec in the first place for Blizzard.

    Sorry for wall of text, I´m just frustrated and disappointed. Every beta, every PTR there are promises by the devs. I was so excited as I heard they change frost mastery and really thought "yes, they will fix scaling, I will stay frost till the end of T14 and beyond". Result: The new mastery is a PvP solution in the first place and doesn´t really fix any of our PvE issues.
    Last edited by mmocc7076034c2; 2013-09-26 at 09:19 AM.

  19. #2039
    Just got 2pc today, and I have a few quick questions.
    1.Should I preference some spells over others for the 20% buff?
    2.Does this at all make mastery more of a preference?
    -still confused with the buffs that just came out, stack haste or stack mastery? Or is there a haste % to aim for (self buffed plz) and then stack mastery?

    Also have 3 trinkets to work with now
    Thunderforged Breath, LFR bindings, LFR totem

    I ran sims and its showing me more dps using breath and bindings for both single target and 2 target fights
    I'm assuming bindings is the way to go either way.

  20. #2040
    Haste or Mastery? Mastery or Haste? Oh God, someone tell me how to play! /curls up into fetal position

    Really though, I would like to try the mastery thing out sometime, but I'm really a fan of using frost bomb on the add fights, and I get the feeling it won't be as great without the haste stacking. Are you guys that are stacking mastery just sticking with living bomb?

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