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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    With those 2 trinkets, you have the optimum for frost now (if you obtain sha hc, content is over ), don´t use elegon hc trinket and don´t use NT. Use Frost Bomb on nearly every encounter, only use LB with 3 or 4 adds and NT on bosses like will of the emporer (spreaded adds).
    Are you sure we shouldnt just use NT/LB with LoC for everything? I only have relic and some crappy blue trinket atm but still going with NT for most fights and I'm doing really well, i dont like the feel of frost bomb at all. I get many more BF procs that with Frost Bomb even with NT on 1 target.. Surely it can only get better with LoC.

  2. #202
    Dreadlord
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    Ever calculated the damage of both (NT and FB)? Frostbomb is about 30% stronger on single target (assuming perfect use of both). I prefer playing with frost bomb, because it´s predictable (BF proc). Playing with Essence of Terror and the 4p must be a blast. I try to sim IV with EoT proc only (extending proc and veins with AT everytime EoT procs)
    Last edited by citizenpete; 2012-12-13 at 02:25 PM.

  3. #203
    Frost Bomb gives you one proc every 8 seconds or so, NT has a potential to give much higher. I'm using NT on every fight and my dps is very similar to yours in worse gear, although you have ranked a bit higher than me on some fights. NT just feels like it has alot more BF potential and that I'm getting more out of it, and there was maths somewhere in this thread I believe that showed LoC hc + NT would beat frostbomb. But I don't have the trinket, so wouldn't be abel to tell you.

  4. #204
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    You can´t compare my ranks, cause im switching gear nearly every night or doing a dungeon reforged for 1 particular fight (12% hit for WotE for example, or reforged for fire because we´re progressing garalon). I´m the raidlead, kicker, stunner whatever.
    The few I have, are made with a blue trinket or with NT and LoC nhc. Sure NT has the potential to give you higher - and lower and proccing to fast and overwrite themselves.
    Once I have the time to SimC BiS hc with EoT and DMC, I´ll show you the advantage - or maybe with ranks, if progress is finished.
    Last edited by citizenpete; 2012-12-13 at 03:39 PM.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    With those 2 trinkets, you have the optimum for frost now (if you obtain sha hc, content is over ), don´t use elegon hc trinket and don´t use NT. Use Frost Bomb on nearly every encounter, only use LB with 3 or 4 adds and NT on bosses like will of the emporer (spreaded adds).
    I have the same three trinkets. The trinket from sha normal Sims lower than both of the other ones for me. Anybody have an idea why? I was running at 33% haste last night using normal elegon and relic. Is it possible I have too much static haste? Intellect is a much more valued state for me. I think it was at a 4.11 last time I simmed and haste was around a 1.80.

  6. #206
    Dreadlord
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    Can you please link your character? I will look at it

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    Can you please link your character? I will look at it
    Can't post links

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    Zoomed - troll mage - US chogall

  8. #208
    Dreadlord
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    With NT and LoC - Zoomed : 102851 dps
    With FB and EoT - Zoomed : 105440 dps

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    With NT and LoC - Zoomed : 102851 dps
    With FB and EoT - Zoomed : 105440 dps
    Ahh, I wasn't simming with frost bomb. Thanks for the help.

  10. #210
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    No problem, you´re welcome : )

    Zoomed : 103741 dps with LoC hc by the way

  11. #211
    Keep in mind that all the numbers are assuming perfect frost bomb use. If you find because of the fight, or movement, or for any reason you aren't using it on cd you can try nt.
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  12. #212
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drooul View Post
    Keep in mind that all the numbers are assuming perfect frost bomb use. If you find because of the fight, or movement, or for any reason you aren't using it on cd you can try nt.
    Those numbers also look like the patchwerk numbers. You really need to look at the helter skelter numbers as well. Frost bomb is surpassed by NT pretty quick when you add movement.
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  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmzac View Post
    Those numbers also look like the patchwerk numbers. You really need to look at the helter skelter numbers as well. Frost bomb is surpassed by NT pretty quick when you add movement.
    And NT is pretty fast surpassed with adds coming into play. Switching 75s talents with a trinket like DMC or EoT is no problem, but switching with LoC isn´t possible.

  14. #214
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    And NT is pretty fast surpassed with adds coming into play. Switching 75s talents with a trinket like DMC or EoT is no problem, but switching with LoC isn´t possible.
    It's definitly something that should be evaluated for each fight and depending on what trinkets you have available. I think it shows blizz did a pretty good job at making people swap talents on a fight per fight basis.
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  15. #215
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    i´ved progressed until feng hc (in blue and epic mixed gear) with frost and could done nearly every boss with FB. Will was the only execption. There are to less bosses which made me swap. I couldn`t rember a boss, which needed LB.

    It´s quite nice to have a choice and the differences between the lvl 75 talents are 2 - 4k dps only - with 496 gear. Zor'lok hc is another NT fight in my opinion, but I couldn´t get my hands on EoT : /

    Blizzard haven´t done a good blancing job with our 3 specs. Zor'lock hc for example: Frost and Fire are waay too far behind for that fight, compared to other pures and even hybrid classes. Arcane is pretty decent, because of it´s enormous output during tank & spank phases.

    Once again PvP ruined Pve and vice versa. Arcane is pretty strong in PvE at the moment, because it seems to be crappy in PvP, coincidence?

  16. #216
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    i´ved progressed until feng hc (in blue and epic mixed gear) with frost and could done nearly every boss with FB. Will was the only execption. There are to less bosses which made me swap. I couldn`t rember a boss, which needed LB.

    It´s quite nice to have a choice and the differences between the lvl 75 talents are 2 - 4k dps only - with 496 gear. Zor'lok hc is another NT fight in my opinion, but I couldn´t get my hands on EoT : /

    Blizzard haven´t done a good blancing job with our 3 specs. Zor'lock hc for example: Frost and Fire are waay too far behind for that fight, compared to other pures and even hybrid classes. Arcane is pretty decent, because of it´s enormous output during tank & spank phases.

    Once again PvP ruined Pve and vice versa. Arcane is pretty strong in PvE at the moment, because it seems to be crappy in PvP, coincidence?
    I completely agree that trying balancing pvp and pve in the same spec is causing significant problems. If blizz made a pve and pvp version of all the specs with the spells and mechanics the same they could perform finite balancing by just changing durations, cast times, damage etc.

    Unless the actual game code would prevent this it seems like the most viable solution to a significant problem. The classes can vary a bit but it would be nice to have nearly all classes and specs provide viable dps.
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  17. #217
    So I have been thinking about the boot enchant. What is the reason for us to use Pandaren's Step (140 mastery and 8% run speed) instead of just Greater Haste (175 haste) does the 8% run speed with the 140 mastery actually beat out the 175 haste?

    From what I have understood, haste is our strongest of the three secondary stats (Not counting hit there), going Haste > Crit > Mastery.
    I'm sure a lot of us make use of blink a lot when it comes to movement, so is pandaren's step still better here?

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Equim View Post
    So I have been thinking about the boot enchant. What is the reason for us to use Pandaren's Step (140 mastery and 8% run speed) instead of just Greater Haste (175 haste) does the 8% run speed with the 140 mastery actually beat out the 175 haste?

    From what I have understood, haste is our strongest of the three secondary stats (Not counting hit there), going Haste > Crit > Mastery.
    I'm sure a lot of us make use of blink a lot when it comes to movement, so is pandaren's step still better here?
    Go for either hit or haste on boots. If you're moving enough for Panderens Step to be useful, you're doing mage wrong.

  19. #219
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    The choice of Pandaren step is just because of the 8% run speed. It's especially useful in the actual fight where there's a lot of movement.
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  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by ogFrenikk View Post
    Go for either hit or haste on boots. If you're moving enough for Panderens Step to be useful, you're doing mage wrong.
    Imperial Vizier maybe?

    Sometimes, blink ends up being too much or working randomly (Elegon).

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