Kuni's Frost Mage PVE Guide

[Frost1129]

It's best to go into Alter Time with five Icicles. I know that it's a bitch on some stacked fights to count them above your head, and sometimes you just lose track of counting casts before hand. The only issue with the aura that a friend and I were working on is the fact you can launch more than 5 with Ice Lance if you generate quick enough. All the other issues were dealt with.

I'm not really too familiar with LUA scripting, but is there a way to bank cast times of spells into a variable, and then apply some conditional logic that says if you cast icicle generator within a certain timeframe (this would need to be worked out I guess) of Ice Lance, it's icicle count is ignored? Did these situations only occur under meta/hero? Might be able to put all of that inside a conditional that first checks for those buffs (if you can even do that), so that none of those variables needed to do that are declared until needed and shouldn't impact performance too much.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

I'm not really too familiar with LUA scripting, but is there a way to bank cast times of spells into a variable, and then apply some conditional logic that says if you cast icicle generator within a certain timeframe (this would need to be worked out I guess) of Ice Lance, it's icicle count is ignored? Did these situations only occur under meta/hero? Might be able to put all of that inside a conditional that first checks for those buffs (if you can even do that), so that none of those variables needed to do that are declared until needed and shouldn't impact performance too much.

It's entirely possible, it's just a matter of tweaking it to get it right. My friend is out of town, and they're much better with LUA than I am, so I can't work on it at the moment. I know the intervals for Icicle launches so it shouldn't be completely horrid to work on. I just don't know when the barrage is set to end, if it waits the interval to check for the Icicle or just checks as the last fires.

[nickseng]

The problem with using the combat log to track icicles is that it can get really inaccurate when something dies before the icicles have been fully discharges.

[Akraen]

Did you all get hit in the head or something? Almost all of these exact replies are already on this thread. You discussed LUA, how you think you might track them, and why it's of such limited use to track them (with it mostly out of your hands), and that you can't read the combat log's post-death events. I don't know why this is happening again, because a number of perfectly reasonable people, including you Kuni, already determined this is a lost cause months ago.

And to those who think tracking icicles is useful, post your logs, let me see you already be at optimal uptimes, no wasted procs, and no excess unproc'd usage. If you think banking 5 icicles to shoot at Garrosh instead of an add at 4% hp is going to help your dps or raid group more than fixing your 83% LB uptime... I have news for you.

Then, find me points in time on -any- fight where tracking your icicles would've helped you to a greater degree than other inefficient aspects of play. Hedging your icicles pales in comparison to snapshotting your bombs, particularly at various haste/crit ratios.

You'd all be a lot better off trying to help regression analysis to finally solve the true ET% adjustments based off builds. If you want to get into real frost theorycraft let me know, but tracking icicles is just a waste of your own time and will continue to mislead the mage community down a rabbit hole of misguided critique.

[Mastamage]

I guess people play on toasters and can't see the icicles above their head?

[maizensh]

Did you all get hit in the head or something? Almost all of these exact replies are already on this thread. You discussed LUA, how you think you might track them, and why it's of such limited use to track them (with it mostly out of your hands), and that you can't read the combat log's post-death events. I don't know why this is happening again, because a number of perfectly reasonable people, including you Kuni, already determined this is a lost cause months ago.

There's always the pvp angle

[Akraen]

There's always the pvp angle

I got nothin' - I did like 3 bg's this entire expansion, only because I had to.

I haven't enjoyed any form of PvP since TBC.

[Drutt]

What's the current thinking on a good haste breakpoint for a frost mastery build used as a secondary spec to arcane? Last I heard was 9762, but that was a while back and may well have changed.

I want a frost offspec to accompany my arcane mainspec and I'm trying to work out where to aim for on haste.

[Ponkster]

Theres a haste breakpoint at 19347 for living bomb with meta gem up, is it worth going up from 18960 for this. I can easily reach it in my gear, and I am very OCD about snapshotting my heroic BBoY

[Frost1129]

Theres a haste breakpoint at 19347 for living bomb with meta gem up, is it worth going up from 18960 for this. I can easily reach it in my gear, and I am very OCD about snapshotting my heroic BBoY

The reason Akraen was asking for people to get %ETs at the various breakpoints (we have them for the ~9k one. need ~14k soft cap and the ~19k) is to answer this type of question.

- - - Updated - - -

So I just did some dummy stuff with spell haste on, and going from 9600 -> 14242 haste

Frostbolt 55 -> 53% (~9k -> ~14k)
ice lance 17 -> 22%
Living Bomb 11 -> 10%
FFB 15 -> 14%
FO 2% -> 1.5%

I'll see if I can take those weights and apply them to your stuff in a way that makes sense, Akraen. Also managed to rope a boomkin in my guild into sitting on dummies with me, so I'll see if I can get some repeats for the two haste levels so we have a more accurate idea of what the ET% should be at (and try to get a ~19k one.)

I'd imagine past 14242 you would see a similar trend occurring, with Frostbolt / LB decreasing in ET due to increasing ILs. Also, although the ET%s remain the same, you are getting a fuckload more Frostbolts. (which is making me wonder why it's not increasing. need moar repeats)

On a side note, I spent 30minutes on a dummy today without combat logs running. /wrists.

Actually, can you just send me your spreadsheet for this? Figuring out exactly what you did, retyping it in my own spreadsheet, and then weighting it is a lot of re-doing work you already did.

[Akraen]

The reason Akraen was asking for people to get %ETs at the various breakpoints (we have them for the ~9k one. need ~14k soft cap and the ~19k) is to answer this type of question.

- - - Updated - - -

So I just did some dummy stuff with spell haste on, and going from 9600 -> 14242 haste

Frostbolt 55 -> 53% (~9k -> ~14k)
ice lance 17 -> 22%
Living Bomb 11 -> 10%
FFB 15 -> 14%
FO 2% -> 1.5%

I'll see if I can take those weights and apply them to your stuff in a way that makes sense, Akraen. Also managed to rope a boomkin in my guild into sitting on dummies with me, so I'll see if I can get some repeats for the two haste levels so we have a more accurate idea of what the ET% should be at (and try to get a ~19k one.)

I'd imagine past 14242 you would see a similar trend occurring, with Frostbolt / LB decreasing in ET due to increasing ILs. Also, although the ET%s remain the same, you are getting a fuckload more Frostbolts. (which is making me wonder why it's not increasing. need moar repeats)

On a side note, I spent 30minutes on a dummy today without combat logs running. /wrists.

Actually, can you just send me your spreadsheet for this? Figuring out exactly what you did, retyping it in my own spreadsheet, and then weighting it is a lot of re-doing work you already did.

You're a good man, Frosty brown. Meanwhile I'm starting calculations for the +8 item level thing. Frost is going to do some crazy stuff with breakpoints. I'll be running 28k haste / 10k crit / 10k mastery

[Hypasonic]

I take it there is no hard cap for haste? I recently acquired BBoY HC WF and gained a decent amount (Have 23,309 haste now) should I look to attain more? I still miss the garrosh helm and using immerseus helm atm, I enjoy the haste playstyle I just hope I'm not losing out by focusing too much on haste at this point :P

Also I have JC on my mage and currently use x2 480 haste gems. Am I better off using 2 pure int gems? AMR suggests it is, thoughts? I'm guessing it might be better due to the fact its 320 int vs 320 haste. Infact scrub that, its actually a loss of 640 haste and a gain of 480 int (Due to sockets) confused.com

[Frost1129]

Whatever gets frostbolt (maybe FFB?) down to a 1s cast would most likely be considered a hard cap. I'm not sure if you can even get the haste levels you need to get frostbolt down to a 1s cast though. A bit above 90% haste would be needed.

[Akraen]

Whatever gets frostbolt (maybe FFB?) down to a 1s cast would most likely be considered a hard cap. I'm not sure if you can even get the haste levels you need to get frostbolt down to a 1s cast though. A bit above 90% haste would be needed.

Exactly 100%.

Not going to happen. 30k is around 92% and that's the max you can get with 4/4 upgrades.

I still would not view 100% as a hard cap though.

[Frost1129]

Exactly 100%.

Not going to happen. 30k is around 92% and that's the max you can get with 4/4 upgrades.

I still would not view 100% as a hard cap though.

Can you send me your spreadsheet already >.< I really, really don't want to have to re-type out everything you have in images over on IV.

[Akraen]

Oh. My forum persona generally only exists while I'm at work. I tend to forget all things related to mage theorycraft once I get home :P I'll set myself a reminder to send it to you then.

[Frost1129]

Oh. My forum persona generally only exists while I'm at work. I tend to forget all things related to mage theorycraft once I get home :P I'll set myself a reminder to send it to you then.

Sounds good. Thanks.

[theredviola]

If you're a JC, is it worth putting in the Brilliant Serpent's Eye over the Keen or Vermilion Onyx?

[Hypasonic]

You mean over the haste or mastery JC gems right? Because ofcourse the Brilliant Serpent's Eye's would be better than 2 Keen vermillion gems, its 640 int vs 320exp+320 mastery. I used to use the haste serpent gems, but swapped to 2 brilliant as I found them to be worth more.
(For me it was 640 haste v 480 int, went with the int)

[KurenaiXIII]

So this thread hasn't been moving for a while but.

Got a question regarding gearing.

Currently I'm running normals and have 4 tier pieces (head, chest, gloves, legs). I am wondering whether, all things considered, keeping the 4-piece bonus is better than having 'just better' warforged pieces, namely in this case Ulmaas' Robes of Crushing Magma and either Leggings of Furious Flame or Shipley's Shady Silks (I have both available to me).

Armory

(I know, in my current gear I'm slightly under hitcap, gonna deal with that after I figure out if keeping the 4p is better than just going with ilevel uber alles)