1. #261
    Pandaren Monk Akraen's Avatar
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    It's viable, but you'd certainly want to use Invocation if you become comfortable enough with the fight to keep the buff up.

    The self-heal is incredibly helpful on Garalon and Will both.

  2. #262
    Guys, I have some doubts about the frost mage opening rotation. I'm gonna show you how I do it, and I want to know if I am doing something wrong.

    - DBM Pull 10
    - Invocation
    - Pre-pot
    *Fight Starts*
    - Frost Bomb
    - Frozen Orb
    - Frostbolt x3
    - Freeze (if necessary for 2nd FoF proc)
    - Macro (Icy Veins, Racial, Mirror Image, Trinket, Alter Time)
    *During Alter Time*
    - Ice Lance x2
    - Frostfire Bolt x1
    - Frost Bomb
    *Alter Time fades*
    - Frostfire Bolt x1
    - Ice Lance x2
    - Frostfire Bolt x1

    I'm open to any criticism, please answer (:

  3. #263
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joaopedrosfc View Post
    Guys, I have some doubts about the frost mage opening rotation. I'm gonna show you how I do it, and I want to know if I am doing something wrong.

    - DBM Pull 10
    - Invocation
    - Pre-pot
    *Fight Starts*
    - Frost Bomb
    - Frozen Orb
    - Frostbolt x3
    - Freeze (if necessary for 2nd FoF proc)
    - Macro (Icy Veins, Racial, Mirror Image, Trinket, Alter Time)
    *During Alter Time*
    - Ice Lance x2
    - Frostfire Bolt x1
    - Frost Bomb
    *Alter Time fades*
    - Frostfire Bolt x1
    - Ice Lance x2
    - Frostfire Bolt x1

    I'm open to any criticism, please answer (:
    Your pretty much spot on.

    Don't worry about getting all 3 stacks of frostbolt up at the cost of wasting FoF charges so if you get a second FoF proc from frostbolt or frozen orb just skip getting the debuff to 3 stacks.

    You should be able to fit another spell in while alter time is up. It will either be Ice Lance or Frostbolt depending if FoF procs (or even a frostfire bolt as I'll explain next).

    You can use frost bomb for the second time right before you use alter time to get another brain freeze proc during alter time. This is dependant on how FoF procs so just make sure you don't waste FoF procs if you're doing it this way.

    In general just use common sense and avoid wasting procs and you'll be fine.
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  4. #264
    A little confused here, would we ever consider using icy veins glyph in CM's? Also, any tips on how to maximize dps in CM's? I am doing all the common sense stuff, and my rotation is good, but I am struggling with a few things, namely:
    -Sometimes de-target when using freeze
    -using icy veins in alter time rotation, should i still be using this during a lust?
    -using nether tempest, not 100% sure on this vs frost bomb

    My glyph choices are Water ele, frost lance, CoC.

    Also, at what point do we turn to arcane blast/CoC rotation over usual dps rotation (with larger number of adds). I noticed on the Meat graft pulls in scholo, I was only pulling 150k, when the dk was pulling 225k. Started going up when I went to blast obviously, but is there a rule of thumb here??

    Any help is greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by cockaroo; 2013-01-07 at 11:54 PM.

  5. #265
    You should always use Frost Bomb in CMs, and pet freeze right before an explosion to maximise AoE damage. Run with Icy Veins glyph if you have above 25% haste buffed and you can pop it during Lust but its not a big deal really. I always use ice lance glyph + water ele, deep freeze can be good as well. I've never used AoE spells, just Frost Bomb and single target them down with icelance cleaving as well. Alot of the time, certain mobs need to die faster than others (some of the nasty casters in scarlet halls as one example)

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by ogFrenikk View Post
    You should always use Frost Bomb in CMs, and pet freeze right before an explosion to maximise AoE damage. Run with Icy Veins glyph if you have above 25% haste buffed and you can pop it during Lust but its not a big deal really. I always use ice lance glyph + water ele, deep freeze can be good as well. I've never used AoE spells, just Frost Bomb and single target them down with icelance cleaving as well. Alot of the time, certain mobs need to die faster than others (some of the nasty casters in scarlet halls as one example)
    Why frost bomb? You are losing a GCD and a half every time you cast that vs. NT. Is that worth the damage increase? I'm not sure. Can someone help me with the math here? Also, seems like a freeze/nova with CoC is pretty damn huge in terms of dps. Higher than I could see with usual rotation, even with procs.

  7. #267
    He just explained why Frost Bomb, because you know exactly when it will explode and can make that damage into a 100% crit chance.
    This will provide massive burst damage output in an area on trash packs.

    It is also balanced so that yes, it is worth the cast time. Blizzard might not have done the best job at balancing talents but things like damage/time spent casting are easy calculations.

  8. #268
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    for the math, you can check it in the last mounts post. FoF is ahead in AOE (6+), especially if Living Bomb can be spread (5.2 ptr). All tree is equal on single target.
    The answers is 42
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  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by joaopedrosfc View Post
    Guys, I have some doubts about the frost mage opening rotation. I'm gonna show you how I do it, and I want to know if I am doing something wrong.

    - DBM Pull 10
    - Invocation
    - Pre-pot
    *Fight Starts*
    - Frost Bomb
    - Frozen Orb
    - Frostbolt x3
    - Freeze (if necessary for 2nd FoF proc)
    - Macro (Icy Veins, Racial, Mirror Image, Trinket, Alter Time)
    *During Alter Time*
    - Ice Lance x2
    - Frostfire Bolt x1
    - Frost Bomb
    *Alter Time fades*
    - Frostfire Bolt x1
    - Ice Lance x2
    - Frostfire Bolt x1

    I'm open to any criticism, please answer (:
    From my non-pro view it looks good. The only thing I would question is the macro. Wouldn't it be better to use a similar macro (minus Alter Time) right when the fight starts so that Frost Bomb benefits from IV and you can build your Frostbolt stack faster?

    EDIT: Also, isn't Mirror Images on the GCD?

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by scuac View Post
    From my non-pro view it looks good. The only thing I would question is the macro. Wouldn't it be better to use a similar macro (minus Alter Time) right when the fight starts so that Frost Bomb benefits from IV and you can build your Frostbolt stack faster?

    EDIT: Also, isn't Mirror Images on the GCD?
    That's something I've been considering to change in my rotation, i was just waiting for someone to tell me what is the most effective way to use these cooldowns. Anyway, I agree with you, Scuac.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachtobi View Post

    T6 Talent > Pre-pot > FB > T5 Talent > FBx2 > Mirror Images > Frozen Orb > Icy Veins > Alter Time

    Also, I find I'm often holding back on Alter Time until I have 2 FoF procs and Brain Freeze - is there any agreed upon threshold for when waiting to align procs is no longer a DPS gain?
    I think the general consensus is that you wait for all 3 procs. I would add an; unless multiply procs/buffs/pots are lower than 6s. Though it should not be a problem as frost have it really easy on procs, as mentioned in thread Fbomb makes it even more predictable, it should only ever be the ffb proc you wait for, as fingers are easy to come by.

    As for rotation i feel both you and jtmzac are forgetting freeze. It should be cast as soon as possible during a channel of Frost bolt or in gcd after instant cast. And frozen orb should only be used after you use the freeze procs if there is multiply targets.

    I dont have mirror image any particular place in the rotation/opener, i press it when all procs/buffs are active on pull, and then at least wait for 1-2 on 2end 3rd etc. I should mention i have done no math on this.
    Last edited by stX3; 2013-01-08 at 06:22 PM.

  12. #272
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stX3 View Post
    I think the general consensus is that you wait for all 3 procs. I would add an; unless multiply procs/buffs/pots are lower than 6s. Though it should not be a problem as frost have it really easy on procs, as mentioned in thread Fbomb makes it even more predictable, it should only ever be the ffb proc you wait for, as fingers are easy to come by.

    As for rotation i feel both you and jtmzac are forgetting freeze. It should be cast as soon as possible during a channel of Frost bolt or in gcd after instant cast. And frozen orb should only be used after you use the freeze procs if there is multiply targets.

    I dont have mirror image any particular place in the rotation/opener, i press it when all procs/buffs are active on pull, and then at least wait for 1-2 on 2end 3rd etc. I should mention i have done no math on this.
    The reason freeze is further down the opening priority is you end up wasting a FoF proc from frozen orb or frostbolt while you're doing the rest of the moves required before you use alter time.

    Delaying freeze seems a better option than wasting a FoF proc.

    Because mirror images is on the gcd but icy veins isn't just use mirror images then icy veins during the gcd caused by mirror images.

    The easiest way to do this would be to use this macro:
    Code:
    #showtooltip Icy Veins
    /cast Mirror Images
    /cast Icy Veins
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  13. #273
    I usually cast Mirror image before using my POT, isnt a GCD worth more spend on a Frost bolt?? Plus I cast a Frostbolt to start as it can travel while I cast Frost bomb.

    -10.00 DBM Pull 10
    -09.00 Invocation / Evocate
    -04.00 Mirror Image
    -02.50 Pot
    -02.40 Cast Frost bolt
    -00.70 Cast Frost bomb
    -00.00 Fight starts
    + 00.05 Frost bolt lands
    + 00.40 Frost bomb lands
    0.0 Fight starts

    You lose 4 seconds of Mirror image dps, but I guess that would be worth the nearly a full Frost bolt of the GCD during your Pre-pot time

  14. #274
    MMO champ front page

    Fingers of Frost Your successful Frostbolts, Frostfire Bolts and Frozen Orb hits have a 15% chance (up from 12), your Blizzard ticks have a 5% (up from 4) chance, and your successful Scorches have a 10% (up from 9) chance to grant you the Fingers of Frost effect.

    Glyph of Ice Lance Your Ice Lance now hits 1 additional target for 50% damage (up from 40%)

  15. #275
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    As far as I can tell, this might be exactly the buff Frost needed for PvE. They didn't change the numbers so it will practically remain at the same level in competitive and dynamic Arena battles, but it might just bump Frost up enough to be an actual progress choice for which nobody can tell you that you are wrong to play it.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    As far as I can tell, this might be exactly the buff Frost needed for PvE. They didn't change the numbers so it will practically remain at the same level in competitive and dynamic Arena battles, but it might just bump Frost up enough to be an actual progress choice for which nobody can tell you that you are wrong to play it.
    Keep in mind this is after they removed freeze from PVE so this is to make up those 2 fof charges. So (with no math what so ever) it feels about the same. not sure what that says for Frost PvP seeing as freeze is very useful there now. (also deep revert)

    But yes I am keen to give frost PvE a good crack as I enjoy its play style quite a bit.

  17. #277
    Hey, does anyone know a youtube channel of a good Frost Mage Player (PVE) or even a good raiding guild with some frost mage POVs?

  18. #278
    Item - Mage T15 2P Bonus (New) When Alter Time expires, you gain 5,100 Haste for 30 sec.
    Is it me or is this very Frost biased? Not that I am complaining.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by scuac View Post
    Is it me or is this very Frost biased? Not that I am complaining.
    Yes and no. Frost loves haste more than the other specs, but even now its not hard to get a ridiculous amount of haste. I imagine with full T15 gear (not even thinking about heroic gear), you'd be damn close to 1 second Frostbolts with that 2p buff, which would mean you passed the GCD haste cap a long time ago.

  20. #280
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insanefoo View Post
    Yes and no. Frost loves haste more than the other specs, but even now its not hard to get a ridiculous amount of haste. I imagine with full T15 gear (not even thinking about heroic gear), you'd be damn close to 1 second Frostbolts with that 2p buff, which would mean you passed the GCD haste cap a long time ago.
    Only under hero. There's no way 5.2 would have anywhere close to the haste needed to get to 100% haste with just the 5100 haste 2p.

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