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  1. #1681
    Dreadlord
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    yeah bug is fixed, our warrior reported it

  2. #1682
    I see now, I just surmised if damage doesnt 'add up', then it snapshots.. Every day a new startling discovery

  3. #1683
    Quote Originally Posted by IsrafaelMage View Post
    I see now, I just surmised if damage doesnt 'add up', then it snapshots.. Every day a new startling discovery
    Your transmog is frightening.

  4. #1684
    Field Marshal Sombrelune's Avatar
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    From Lhivera on wow official forums :
    "The difference is that when people test such things, they generally don't do 25,000 iterations per stat with all raid buffs active.

    After further optimization:

    Hit @ 14.99%
    Int @ 26,841: 7.81
    Crit @ 24.05%: 3.77
    Haste @ 46.95%: 4.34
    Mastery @ 57.82%: 3.88

    That's obviously pushed the value of Mastery down some, but since it's been stacked up even higher, that's not a surprise. The profile might do a bit better if one or two hit/crit or hit/mastery pieces are replaced with hit/haste pieces, but with values of hit this high it's not easy to get it to land so close to 15% (because reforges result in large numerical shifts), so it might do more harm than good."


    So back to hast till " FB + BL" cap and then go Intel gem.
    It's funny to notice that mastery ( which don't have any cap), is nearly equal to crit ( near the soft crit cap). And don't forget that this sim is in patchwerk fights where icicles is at his best ( or nearly considering 2 target cleave).
    At the contraty, hast is at his worst but is still king.

    However be carefull. SimC numbers are not exact numbers. Each new " optimization " changes the relative value of scale factors.

  5. #1685
    Dreadlord
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    Just toyed around with Arcane and Frost on PTR after the raid tests - together with Nathyiel. As usual Arcane with T15 4p, AMP and Toxic Totem was a lot stronger than Arcane with T16. Then I switched to Forst and Nathyiel suggested Haste around 40% and rest into Mastery. T16 Set has a lot of crit so I ended up with

    39.41% Haste, 45.49% Mastery and 25.97% Crit (Ilvl 554)

    It was a short test with 4 - 5 minutes, but Frost was not far away from arcane with T15

    The PTR 25m heroic test tonight and yesterday were a little bit better with Frost than pervious heroic tests, but Arcane scaling is just too amazing and therefore ruled on most encounters (a big differece are dots, but with high ping and lags on ptr, this is the most difficult to do).
    But I have to admit, that I get more and more used to new frost mastery and its really a little bit more fun than 5.3 (thanks to target switch without debuff). I think Blizzard could bring frost up to the other two specs with an achievable and realistic tuning:

    buff T16 2p to 25/30% (up from 20%)
    buff Brain Freeze with a damage multiplier (1.1 - 1.15)
    revert recent ice lance nerf and/or buff legendary cloak a bit


    After all my tests on PTR (nearly did all 10m nhc/hc 25m nhc/hc) as Frost and Arcane, Frost should be able to compete even in heroic raids (progression) with my suggested changes (just a baind-aid). It´s my humble opinion of course, but I think nothing is lost. Frost still lacks scaling and output, but Blizzard can compensate till patchday September 10th/11th *Knock on wood!*
    Last edited by citizenpete; 2013-09-05 at 08:02 AM.

  6. #1686
    Field Marshal Sombrelune's Avatar
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    I don't think we will see number changes before the release but maybe 1 or 2 week after with luck ( or pvp whines ). I cross my fingers.

    However It's possible that the 4P T15 for arcane will be nerf like for combat rogues.

    I don't know Iif they tried it with T15 or only T16 but Method mages keep saying that Fire is superior to arcane in all heroic encounter except Galakras and Spoil.

  7. #1687
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    Tests are over, bugs reported, concerns and suggestions are told, now it is Blizzards turn. A funny thing happend: I reported a bug regarding arcane and the cleave trinket on wednesday and the next day (yesterday) bug was fixed! But it took them over 2 weeks to fix frost bug without any response. I just think Frost PvE is not on their radar and/or its priority is pretty low.

    Regarding Arcane T15 and T16: All my tests with Arcane T15 were pretty decent. I watched streams from others to compare my own result e.g. Cycobi, he really wiped the floor with garrosh in T15 gear. If you then watch streams from method or midwinter with their fire specs or T16 arcane mages, it looked like they played a different tier

    I do not want to discredit any players from method or midwinter, because getting impressions and suggestions from mages with their playing workload is not a bad thing, but playing a lot doesn`t give you a better cognition. I can just speak for myself, I´m not in a bad guild at the moment, but giving feedback is not as important to me than getting feedback . There are so many clever minds out there who are not playing 16 - 18hrs a day during progression...
    Last edited by citizenpete; 2013-09-05 at 11:02 AM.

  8. #1688
    Field Marshal Sombrelune's Avatar
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    I agree. I take others opinions into consideration, but nothing come before my own testings. If I changes my mind on something it's because I read it AND test it. Like I used to say, I'm a mage who create sheep but I'm not a Sheep (of Panurge ).

  9. #1689
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    Yesterday was fun.
    Just tweet me when you want to do another one.

    Actually what are the fight you think Frost could be good ?

    For you're suggestion :
    Ok with all but I should add: increase 4pT16 proc rate by 5%/10%. It's just ridicule on some fight : 0.5% of the total damage with a lot of add).
    Instead of increasing IL damage back, they can increase Splitting_ice cleave to 60% (up from 50%).

    For the value I proposed Yesterday (40% haste), my idea was that it should do better result in cleave situation.
    But with a lot of stuff, 53.85% (~15700) is the limit minus amp bonus.
    The answers is 42
    -------------------------
    Nathyiel, TempteÐ (sargeras-EU) - @Nathyiel

  10. #1690
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    Tests are over, bugs reported, concerns and suggestions are told, now it is Blizzards turn. A funny thing happend: I reported a bug regarding arcane and the cleave trinket on wednesday and the next day (yesterday) bug was fixed! But it took them over 2 weeks to fix frost bug without any response. I just think Frost PvE is not on their radar and/or its priority is pretty low.

    Regarding Arcane T15 and T16: All my tests with Arcane T15 were pretty decent. I watched streams from others to compare my own result e.g. Cycobi, he really wiped the floor with garrosh in T15 gear. If you then watch streams from method or midwinter with their fire specs or T16 arcane mages, it looked like they played a different tier

    I do not want to discredit any players from method or midwinter, because getting impressions and suggestions from mages with their playing workload is not a bad thing, but playing a lot doesn`t give you a better cognition. I can just speak for myself, I´m not in a bad guild at the moment, but giving feedback is not as important to me than getting feedback . There are so many clever minds out there who are not playing 16 - 18hrs a day during progression...
    Clever does not translate to good as some clever people believe they should play a substandard spec while trying to push progression, a fact that went all of this tier. Also as Slooty mentions in his streams they try different strats and even went as far as to tell the mages playing Fire to not hold back because he knew they normally pulled a lot more but said they are afraid of getting nerfed again. He mentioned it several times during the stream that some people seem to be really holding back for some reason.

  11. #1691
    In regards to Midwinter, they're a really cool group of guys, and I'm really thankful that they've allowed me to play with them through yet another ptr round, albeit I wasn't able to be on as much as I'd have liked due to my current job, but they were a lot of fun and didn't discourage me from experimenting with specs. For the most part, I played arcane, but there were a couple fights that I went frost for, those being Thok, Nazgrim, and Siegecrafter. From what I can tell, and in regards to single-target damage, frost seemed to do pretty well. However, if there were a lot of little adds, arcane seemed to do a whole lot better, which was something that perturbed me because I've usually equated frost with strong aoe. Nevertheless, I think that the issue in this regard is due to the mastery change, which makes aoe shatter combos a lot less rewarding.

    I'll likely play as frost and arcane next tier, and my choice will depend on whichever I deem better for my role in he encounter. Also gonna try to make some more vids this tier, since all I filmed last tier was a belated Raden kill.

  12. #1692
    Was just wondering if anyone on PTR is actually sending Blizzard logs to prove Frost is being outperformed? I'm happy to do it as soon as we start next week on live if not. What's the best mechanism to get logs to them?

  13. #1693
    Upload to World of Logs and send the link as a tweet to Ghostcrawler with a few words explaining where the log is from and what to watch for. Or you could start a topic on the PTR forum and post the link to the log there, I suppose?

  14. #1694
    aster
    Quote Originally Posted by Cabrian View Post
    Was just wondering if anyone on PTR is actually sending Blizzard logs to prove Frost is being outperformed? I'm happy to do it as soon as we start next week on live if not. What's the best mechanism to get logs to them?
    Weeks and weeks ago Fire and Arcane were shown to be the strongest dps of the mages specs and hundreds of posts saying that possibly Frost will stay the Pvp spec which makes sense. The mastery change has changed burst some while still being able to control when to get a kill in arena, so to me none of these numbers are a surprise.

    Blatty went as far as to show numerous logs where even as Arcane on single target he was getting destroyed by Fire and stated he will only play Arcane on two fights. I like the different playstyle of Fire myself with no haste break points and having much more haste to cast more fireballs,proccing cloak more often and more !Pyro's.

    I have watched numerous players from progression guilds try Frost then go back to Arcane and Fire in the same stream but they the new mastery interested people but after playing went back to the better dps specs.

    I think Frost won't change and will hold its traditional mark as the chosen Pvp spec.

  15. #1695
    So, I have a potentially dumb question. It may be answered directly by the priority list, but I am not certain and can't find info on it anywhere.

    At what point, if ever, is interrupting a FB to fire off a proc'd FFB or IL a DPS loss? Lets assume no other priority is in the way, i.e., Invocation is up, FB stacks are at 3 (and won't fall off), bomb is up, etc.

    I have been letting my FB go off if it is ~70% cast already. Otherwise I interrupt with my proc'd FFB or IL. I'm not certain this is the right thing to do though.

  16. #1696
    Never interrupt a cast. Never.

  17. #1697

  18. #1698
    Field Marshal Sombrelune's Avatar
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    Looking at Rppm table on MMO, it seemps that the only proc that benefits from hast modifier is the legendary cloak. I thought that legendary meta would still benefit from hast, but I was wrong.

    So it looks like all specs/Class which favored hast will see a proc reduction, and those which didn't will see a proc rise.

    I didn't see any compensation like Blizzard promised. Or maybe the legendary cloak is the compensation, but I don't believe so.

    So number tuning is done and the last changes for frost pve was a little nerf ( - 10% frosbolt, -10% Icelance, +14% icicles). As if with only an mastery increase we would be overpowered T_T.
    I don't think Frost will be non competitive. I tested it and I Was ahead from some other classe. But I was behind Fire and Arcane.
    So If we ask for buff, they will say it's not Frost that is low it's the others specs that is too high but they will change nothing.

    Plz plz, old Golds of Azeroth, make that Frost pvp mage will whine loud.

  19. #1699
    Quote Originally Posted by Sombrelune View Post
    I don't know Iif they tried it with T15 or only T16 but Method mages keep saying that Fire is superior to arcane in all heroic encounter except Galakras and Spoil.
    Can you provide a link or smth?
    Thats not because I dont believe you, it is because things for, say, 540 and 560 geared mages can be very different.

  20. #1700
    Field Marshal Sombrelune's Avatar
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    It's on method forums. Fire mage guide by Vykina http://www.methodwow.com/board/showt...-Guide/page182

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