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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    Managing the DoT isn't just using PB. It's managing PB usage with limited resources and balancing its use with BoK for shuffle. Throwing more stats into mastery will just make haste even BETTER, because with haste comes more chi per minute, which means more PB's without having to sacrifice shuffle uptime.
    This is the Key in the gearing/reforging side. Its great to prurify very often high mastery stagger but if you dont have chi to keep shuffle up and guard on cd/needed... then you will drain your healers or eventually die (remember we are a rng dmg tank). Actually we have to "learn" the real place a BM is, the way we handle damage is related to know each figth and prepare for it. Now we have dificult 2/3 weeks learning and gearing. We are "starved" of equipment and stats, so making the rigth choice is dificult so... its look like stam/mastery "feels" rigth but again: we are tanks in dps ratings, more than bears!

    Im in 457 ilvl... not best geared and enchanted (not many time to play), geared for exp hardcap with a exp/armor elixirs (nice choice to smooth 5% extra physical dmg and reach the cap, they are so cheap, took like 100/100 from AH for 12g).

    Armory

    We killed 2 bosses and the damage taken by me was almost the same than a warrior much better geared. Healers "cant" tell acurate tips about how difficult we are to heal coz they were a bit starved of mana for raid... still my dmg was noticeable.

    On par with the benefits of exp hard cap in the defensive side (steady chi and healing) we heave high dmg, in a low lvl raid gear for all raid members scenario we can help killing the boss. I was tanking stoneguard boss with 2 bosses moving arround and did 67K dmg... 2nd in dps to a Rogue with 77k and the rest near 60K, i think this is another thing to take into consideration, not to aim for, but its a colateral benefit of our tanking model and gearing.

    If i have to say a downside of BM is the "last" portion of life we have, the "ohh shit buttons" are more tricky and we need to time our rotational cd to keep alive, pray you got 2 chi and guard off CD!!

    P.D.: The symbiosis spell be get is a TOTAL CRAPPPPPP... it was said a 25% dmg reduction, Survival instincs symbiosis mode 25% down of 50% for 6 seconds, still was great... what happend to that??? ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh =(

    BB

  2. #22
    Somewhat related. How do we as BM's feel about Armour increases through trinkets/ consumables. We dont get inflated armour values like druids do through bear form/ mastery so while i'm not 90 on my BM yet, i imagine our armour value will be about the same as the average rogue pre enchant. Are armour procs/ consumables worth considering if there are other options?

  3. #23
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zymn View Post
    Somewhat related. How do we as BM's feel about Armour increases through trinkets/ consumables. We dont get inflated armour values like druids do through bear form/ mastery so while i'm not 90 on my BM yet, i imagine our armour value will be about the same as the average rogue pre enchant. Are armour procs/ consumables worth considering if there are other options?
    From my understanding we want to use agility pots over Armor pots and use On-use agility Trinkets over Armor. The main reason(s) being is that We gain more Absorption from Guard and we Gain more healing from Zen Sphere and not to mention GotOX will give us a crap ton more healing when needed. All of the previous scale with out Attack power. Agility= AP.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Zymn View Post
    Somewhat related. How do we as BM's feel about Armour increases through trinkets/ consumables. We dont get inflated armour values like druids do through bear form/ mastery so while i'm not 90 on my BM yet, i imagine our armour value will be about the same as the average rogue pre enchant. Are armour procs/ consumables worth considering if there are other options?
    at ilvl 457 i have 27k armor, 15k from items + BM stance.

    Agi is a "all-round stat" for us... but when you need something to reach caps.... its priority, over cap is just power gear...

  5. #25
    Although I hate to come back and say it, I (of course) was dead wrong in my post earlier... I said that, from a theoretical standpoint I would stack mastery to improve my overall effective health. Now that I've actually gotten my monk there and seen the endgame, Mastery is definitely the last thing I would stack. Sorry to have gone against the grain there

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Oppen View Post
    at ilvl 457 i have 27k armor, 15k from items + BM stance.
    I would really like to know where you're getting that extra 12k armor..... because my Stance of the Sturdy Ox definitely doesn't give me armor value.

    I'm sitting at 474 Ilvl and i have 17.2k armor.

  7. #27
    I hate to take this off topic at all, but I just wanted to say this is an amazing thread. It's really helping me understand stat priorities as well as early content priorities vs. ideal priorities. I'm entirely too excited for my Monk to get to 90 and really start to contribute and apply all the things we talk about here.
    杜氏清兵衛

  8. #28
    I've tried a few strategies for stats myself.

    Hit/Exp always to 7.5% first. I don't think there's any setup where that won't be desirable. After that:

    A) Exp to Hard Cap > Haste > Mastery (Aiming to optimize self-healing and chi generation for uptime of stagger).
    B) Mastery > Exp to Hard Cap > Haste (Aiming to reduce initial damage taken. Rest of the stats are prioritized as above).
    C) Exp to Hard Cap > Mastery > Haste (Striking a balance between the two. Optimize selfhealing/chi generation, but rather than use haste (the less effective stat for it), put more into Mastery to reduce initial damage).

    So far, all three have produced similar results.

    What I'm interested in is has anyone found any way for a Brewmaster to be remotely similar to any other tank in terms of damage taken (less effective self-healing)?

    Every log I've seen thus far has Druids/Paladins/Warriors taking nearly half the total damage of a Brewmaster in a similar role, and DKs taking ~50% less, but healing/shielding for roughly the same. I've yet to see anyone demonstrate an advantage to Brewmaster tanking. I would (believe me) love to be proven wrong on that one.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Oppen View Post
    On par with the benefits of exp hard cap in the defensive side (steady chi and healing) we heave high dmg, in a low lvl raid gear for all raid members scenario we can help killing the boss. I was tanking stoneguard boss with 2 bosses moving arround and did 67K dmg... 2nd in dps to a Rogue with 77k and the rest near 60K, i think this is another thing to take into consideration, not to aim for, but its a colateral benefit of our tanking model and gearing.

    BB
    Just FYI, as this seemed completely off to me considering your gear and my personal experience.

    Stagger is counted on World of Logs as a damaging spell applied by the Monk - this means that your DPS is vastly inflated depending on how bad you are at clearing it.

    Your actual dps is about 20% lower.

    Probably even more considering how much Stagger damage you're taking. Get drinking that brew as your DPS is inflated even more for Feng.
    Last edited by raurth; 2012-10-06 at 03:50 PM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamanberry View Post
    I've tried a few strategies for stats myself.

    Hit/Exp always to 7.5% first. I don't think there's any setup where that won't be desirable. After that:

    A) Exp to Hard Cap > Haste > Mastery (Aiming to optimize self-healing and chi generation for uptime of stagger).
    B) Mastery > Exp to Hard Cap > Haste (Aiming to reduce initial damage taken. Rest of the stats are prioritized as above).
    C) Exp to Hard Cap > Mastery > Haste (Striking a balance between the two. Optimize selfhealing/chi generation, but rather than use haste (the less effective stat for it), put more into Mastery to reduce initial damage).

    So far, all three have produced similar results.

    What I'm interested in is has anyone found any way for a Brewmaster to be remotely similar to any other tank in terms of damage taken (less effective self-healing)?

    Every log I've seen thus far has Druids/Paladins/Warriors taking nearly half the total damage of a Brewmaster in a similar role, and DKs taking ~50% less, but healing/shielding for roughly the same. I've yet to see anyone demonstrate an advantage to Brewmaster tanking. I would (believe me) love to be proven wrong on that one.
    Once again i do need to stress that mastery, per point, is the worst stat that brewmasters can have.

    And in terms of my experiences, I'm not sure if it's because the DK was being badish, but in terms of damage taken, we were fairly comparable, though I was taking slightly less.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    Once again i do need to stress that mastery, per point, is the worst stat that brewmasters can have.

    And in terms of my experiences, I'm not sure if it's because the DK was being badish, but in terms of damage taken, we were fairly comparable, though I was taking slightly less.
    Looking at our logs from our Feng attempts, I'm taking about 3% more than our Pally, which is manageable and most likely down to my relative unfamiliarity with the class and gear differences.

    Incoming damage seems about even across the board with a few differences in our attempts either side, depending on how badly we mess up. I'm also not stacking shuffle when not tanking, but instead using Zen Sphere and Torpedo to help the healers.
    Last edited by raurth; 2012-10-06 at 04:41 PM.

  12. #32
    I think top 50 guild tanks stack stamina because it's predictable when you are in bleeding edge progression. Dodge is not and thus harder to handle.

    You might take less damage when you follow the simulated, theorycrafted stat priority but that is probably not very usefull when you are 'undergeared' and it's not predictable/steady incoming damage.

    Monk's mastery is also predictable and reduces the initial damage which is ofcourse pretty awesome. It's funny someone here says mastery is the worst stat. It really depends on what you are doing I think.
    Last edited by Gilian; 2013-01-21 at 02:50 PM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    I think top 50 guild tanks stack stamina because it's predictable when you are in bleeding edge progression. Dodge is not and thus harder to handle.

    You might take less damage when you follow the simulated, theorycrafted stat priority but that is probably not very usefull when you are 'undergeared' and it's not predictable/steady incoming damage.

    Monk's mastery is also predictable and reduces the initial damage which is ofcourse pretty awesome. It's funny someone here says mastery is the worst stat. It really depends on what you are doing I think.
    This thread is 3.5 months old. We've learned quite a bit about this new class since then

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    I think top 50 guild tanks stack stamina because it's predictable when you are in bleeding edge progression. Dodge is not and thus harder to handle.

    You might take less damage when you follow the simulated, theorycrafted stat priority but that is probably not very usefull when you are 'undergeared' and it's not predictable/steady incoming damage.

    Monk's mastery is also predictable and reduces the initial damage which is ofcourse pretty awesome. It's funny someone here says mastery is the worst stat. It really depends on what you are doing I think.

    As the poster above me states, this really isn't true any more. People have had time to adjust to how our class works, and frankly, stacking stamina/mastery is rather silly in most cases. I have seen some interesting cases for a high mastery build at higher item levels, but I still think the majority consensus is that Haste/Crit is still the way to go

  15. #35
    Yeah, you'll never want to outright stack stamina or mastery at this point really. Sometimes more stamina is useful, but nothing beyond swapping to stam trinkets, using a helm with the stam meta, maybe swap a couple other items that are gemmed/enchanted for stamina at most.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    It's funny someone here says mastery is the worst stat. It really depends on what you are doing I think.
    It's not really the "worst", but less optimal. Largely because it takes around 1200 Mastery Rating to get 1% Mastery. So in order for your mastery to really shine, you'd have to give up a LOT of other beneficial stats.

  17. #37
    Brewmaster cyqu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proudjaena View Post
    I think you should really look into Stam > Agi > 15% Expertise = 7.5% Hit > Haste > Crit > Parry > Mastery > Dodge.

    You get enough Parry/Dodge from Activate Mitigation that the actual stat values of them decreases.

    Chi generation is vitally important for the way our mitigation works. If you miss with a keg smash or Jab, you litereally get gibbed, as well as pooling enough Chi for when guard comes up to keep it up. You have to be careful with your how you spend it. You may get some lucky dodge/parries stacking dodge/parry, but you go into a raid with low exp and you get parried 2-3 times in a row, you're going to die.
    While I myself am going 15% exp I would not suggest it till much higher levels of gear 500+ for sure. Missing a KS is annoying but if your getting gibbed because of you've messed up somewhere else already.
    Even in doing this myself I wouldn't suggest 15% exp if your looking to maximize survivabilty, I did it from a pure dps stand point though the diffence in going into crit after meeting haste points is so small I figured what the hell.

    Tippz - <divinity> vek'nilash US if any cares to check my stats out or whatever.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Lekiki View Post
    Ive been trying to search for this information for a while now but the more I look the more confused I get. So far I understand the stat weightings to be:

    Hit/Exp to 7.5% > Agility > Haste > Crit > Dodge/Parry > Stamina > Mastery.

    This means that I am equally confused about the Meta. Alot of sources say Agil/3% improved critical effects aswell as eating the 300 Agility food with an agility flask. Also all the reforges are supposed to go into Haste. Gemming is

    Red = 160 agil
    Yellow = 80 agil/160 haste
    Blue = 80 AGil/160 stam
    This all seems about right to me to be honest. Like most others have said though, it's more than likely just for the heroic progression long before they have the appropriate gear to do so. But hey, there's a reason they rank top! As for me, I mostly go haste and have no problems whatsoever. As for the meta socket? It would be ideal to have multiple helms with differen't ones. The 3% increased crit damage doesn't do anything for us other than add some dps. If you're in a fight taking a lot of spell damage the 324 stam -2% spell damage would be good, 324 stam +2% armor if you're getting hit like a truck. I've been rocking the +432 crit 1% spell reflect. Unfortunately not many have the option of 3 differen't helms for differen't fights. For red gems I do the the 80 AGI/160 haste, Blues 160 haste / 160 stam, and Yellows I've started going for 320 crit due to a bountiful amount of energy regen, however. Effective health seems trivial, at least if you're progressing MSV heroics.

    If you want to take a look Lumiair - Skywall
    Last edited by Lunasta; 2013-01-22 at 05:38 PM.

  19. #39
    Dreadlord Wayne25uk's Avatar
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    Try this,best source for it imo

    http://www.noxxic.com/wow/pve/monk/brewmaster

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne25uk View Post
    Try this,best source for it imo

    http://www.noxxic.com/wow/pve/monk/brewmaster
    Yeeah no it's not.

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