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  1. #1

    So confused about Brewmaster Stats

    Ive been trying to search for this information for a while now but the more I look the more confused I get. So far I understand the stat weightings to be:

    Hit/Exp to 7.5% > Agility > Haste > Crit > Dodge/Parry > Stamina > Mastery.

    This means that I am equally confused about the Meta. Alot of sources say Agil/3% improved critical effects aswell as eating the 300 Agility food with an agility flask. Also all the reforges are supposed to go into Haste. Gemming is

    Red = 160 agil
    Yellow = 80 agil/160 haste
    Blue = 80 AGil/160 stam

    I then look to armories of a few Brewmasters in world top 50 guilds and they are fully reforging into mastery. Have stamina/armour meta and actively reforging into dodge. Im new to tanking so this is a completely new style of play for me and I apologize if I have came accross as someone who cant be bothered to look for themselves as I've tried my best to collate the info but getting conflicting ideas constantly. What I gues I want from you guys is the general agreed stat prorities and what meta/food/flask I am supposed to be aiming for. Id really appreciate the help.

  2. #2
    My guess is these guys are going to try Heroic Raids right off the bat to get world/realm first. During the beginning of last expansion the top guild's tanks were staking Stamina, to be able to survive tackling content that was beyond their gear level. It lead to many debates on the forums because Stat Weights indicated that Bears for example should stack Agility over Stamina, and that Stamina stacking was obsolete. People always referred to these top guild tanks as evidence that Stamina stacking was still the way to go. Turned out they were trying to reach a particular Health level and as they began getting gear whose Stamin yielded said health level without having to Gem and Enchant for it, they began leveling out their offensive stats.

  3. #3
    It's a hotly debated topic among tanks, but I've always felt that the way to go at the beginning of a new tier is to prioritize effective health.

    I've not gotten my monk to 90 yet (76 and a half) but I do have a 460+ ilevel Blood DK, and threat is no issue for me even with 1% hit/expertise. What I choose to prioritize is anything that can increase my theoretical time between max health and death without a single heal (aka effective health). This maximizes your theoretical uptime and gives your healers a bit of wiggle room as response time goes.

    The downside to this is that, as you're avoiding less (since you're prioritizing effective health over avoidance), the overall damage you take is actually more (which is rough on healer mana), even though it takes you theoretically longer to die. Your Threat/DPS will also suffer, which is why you see big guilds stacking for effective health early on, and then going into avoidance/threat as the tier progresses.

    Bringing this back to brewmaster, mastery (which increases your staggered amount) affects your effective health (albeit in such a complicated way that it's almost impossible to calculate), and is thus what I would likely stack. The ability to shrug off more damage, then purify the stagger at times when it is most convenient, cannot be overstated, I think. This requires more attentiveness than other tanks have to exhibit, but has a pretty big upside if you can pull it off effectively.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Lekiki View Post
    Ive been trying to search for this information for a while now but the more I look the more confused I get. So far I understand the stat weightings to be:

    Hit/Exp to 7.5% > Agility > Haste > Crit > Dodge/Parry > Stamina > Mastery.

    This means that I am equally confused about the Meta. Alot of sources say Agil/3% improved critical effects aswell as eating the 300 Agility food with an agility flask. Also all the reforges are supposed to go into Haste. Gemming is

    Red = 160 agil
    Yellow = 80 agil/160 haste
    Blue = 80 AGil/160 stam

    I then look to armories of a few Brewmasters in world top 50 guilds and they are fully reforging into mastery. Have stamina/armour meta and actively reforging into dodge. Im new to tanking so this is a completely new style of play for me and I apologize if I have came accross as someone who cant be bothered to look for themselves as I've tried my best to collate the info but getting conflicting ideas constantly. What I gues I want from you guys is the general agreed stat prorities and what meta/food/flask I am supposed to be aiming for. Id really appreciate the help.
    As far as here and Elitistjerks are concerned, that isn't the priority, nor is that what you want to gem in or food buff with. You can check my guide for what we found to be the best stats to go into.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    As far as here and Elitistjerks are concerned, that isn't the priority, nor is that what you want to gem in or food buff with. You can check my guide for what we found to be the best stats to go into.

    Correct me if im wrong, but isnt the stat weights i posted exactly what you say in your guide? Also your guide also said to take agil potions and agil/armour pots.

  6. #6
    I gotta add in @ OP

    " Im new to tanking so this is a completely new style of play for me"
    Diving into Brewmaster is going to be even more confusing, cause we do not gear like any other tank out there. As a long time tank, Im loving the change of pace but its still hard to drop the old mindsets and go "oh sweet crit haste secondary stats? TANK PIECE!" And you will get a lot of conflicting reports about what works, what doesnt, and what we're 'supposed' to do. I have gotten a kick outta a few people in randoms that try and yell at me for queuing as tank without tank gear. Only to be singing monk praises (or calling us OP cause we whomped em on trash dps, our AoE is amazing) by the end of the run.

    As said earlier in the thread tho, what the top 50 guilds are gearing now, is likely going to be a "hey we're doing something drastically beyond out gear level, so we have to do things weirdly" they'll run setups that expect to have 2 healers spam healing their pants off to see how much incoming damage the bosses do etc, and they'll often completely regem / reforge after 1-2 attempts at a boss.

    As for the meta question, Im using the crit/1% spell reflect one, I may swap to the agi/crit% but Im just not quite sure (also its like 8k on my server atm)
    Last edited by Affectionate; 2012-10-01 at 05:40 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Lekiki View Post
    Correct me if im wrong, but isnt the stat weights i posted exactly what you say in your guide? Also your guide also said to take agil potions and agil/armour pots.
    Nope. Well kinda. Expertise is going to whatever cap you feel is good for your style, which is dependent on whether or not you use GotO healing orbs. If you do, you want hard cap (15%). And I say gem expertise till cap, elsewise just go for straight up haste. And as for the flask, you technically should get the elixirs. The armor potion is more effective for melee fights, while the agi one is better for self-healing fights.

  8. #8
    Well thank you all for your help. I understand that brewmaster is a hard tank to dive into but I have previous experience raiding at a very competitive level so I believe I have the skills to give it a damn good go. For now I think I am going to go for the agil/3% crit meta and stick all my reforges into haste.Affectionate, that makes sense about stamina stacking when going for world firsts. Thanks all. P.s Its a great guide madgod, ill be using it from now on. Good Luck in moP

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Affectionate View Post
    I gotta add in @ OP



    Diving into Brewmaster is going to be even more confusing, cause we do not gear like any other tank out there. As a long time tank, Im loving the change of pace but its still hard to drop the old mindsets and go "oh sweet crit haste secondary stats? TANK PIECE!"
    Bears have been gearing like this for two expansions now.

    monks are basicly Bear clones.
    Till water is gone, Till shade is gone. Into the shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath. To spit in Sightblinders eye on the last day.

  10. #10
    Those guilds tend to do weird things with their gear but it is to get around the fact their gear is not at the level the content was made for.

  11. #11
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazlehoff View Post
    Bears have been gearing like this for two expansions now.

    monks are basicly Bear clones.
    Kinda. Yes bears wore dps leather....but they also reforged secondary stats to dodge. We will actually be reforging dps stats to another dps stat (haste).

    I'm anxious to see at what point that will change.

  12. #12
    The Patient Valient's Avatar
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    Very top end guild tanks flirt with death alot. They will gear to the very edge of what is healable on the understanding that 3 out of 10 attempts they will die to unavoidable RNG as long as 1 of the 10 attempts will generate them a kill opportunity, even if they have to rely on good RNG to do it, that often means that they will stack stamina allowing them to layer external CD's to soak damage that normal tanks can't, knowing that even if they and the healers play perfectly they are still at risk of wiping, sometimes more so than surviving.

    The normal-high end raiders generally lean towards what will make you predictable to heal and ultimately what will prevent random gibs, as repeated wipes due to tank deaths are pretty demoralising to the average player.

    There is quite alot of discussion on the brewmaster thread about when mastery stacking is suitable and it certainly has a time and a place, it's just a niche gearing option. You also need to consider what monk tanks are being used for in top end guilds, as that heavily influences gearing choices. Top guilds don't just decide to take a monk cos they fancy it, they compare them to other tanks and decide which is best for each specific role. For me monks excel in spike damage tanking and a mastery setup is ideal for that type of fight. In a fight that requires a steady or consistent damage tank the monk may well spec WW or mistweaver or even be benched.

    Armory checking people is all well and good but you need to take what the top end tanks do with a pinch of salt, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that they will deliberately log out with shit reforges just to throw other top guilds off the scent of what they are planning too.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lekiki View Post
    Ive been trying to search for this information for a while now but the more I look the more confused I get. So far I understand the stat weightings to be:

    Hit/Exp to 7.5% > Agility > Haste > Crit > Dodge/Parry > Stamina > Mastery.

    This means that I am equally confused about the Meta. Alot of sources say Agil/3% improved critical effects aswell as eating the 300 Agility food with an agility flask. Also all the reforges are supposed to go into Haste. Gemming is

    Red = 160 agil
    Yellow = 80 agil/160 haste
    Blue = 80 AGil/160 stam

    I then look to armories of a few Brewmasters in world top 50 guilds and they are fully reforging into mastery. Have stamina/armour meta and actively reforging into dodge. Im new to tanking so this is a completely new style of play for me and I apologize if I have came accross as someone who cant be bothered to look for themselves as I've tried my best to collate the info but getting conflicting ideas constantly. What I gues I want from you guys is the general agreed stat prorities and what meta/food/flask I am supposed to be aiming for. Id really appreciate the help.
    I think you should really look into Stam > Agi > 15% Expertise = 7.5% Hit > Haste > Crit > Parry > Mastery > Dodge.

    You get enough Parry/Dodge from Activate Mitigation that the actual stat values of them decreases.

    Chi generation is vitally important for the way our mitigation works. If you miss with a keg smash or Jab, you litereally get gibbed, as well as pooling enough Chi for when guard comes up to keep it up. You have to be careful with your how you spend it. You may get some lucky dodge/parries stacking dodge/parry, but you go into a raid with low exp and you get parried 2-3 times in a row, you're going to die.
    Last edited by Proudjaena; 2012-10-03 at 06:38 PM.

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    I think the odd gemming in MoP is confusing some people as well since depending on the stat weights you are using gemming for secondary stats is > Agil if it's not 2x the value.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Lekiki View Post
    Hit/Exp to 7.5% > Agility > Haste > Crit > Dodge/Parry > Stamina > Mastery.
    Can anyone explain why this is? I'd assume that Mastery would be the best stat for Brewmasters because it directly reduces the damage we take. The higher our Mastery, the less upfront physical damage we take. Why is that last?

    Also, why is Agi and haste so good for Brewmasters? I'm guessing Crit is so high because it procs Elusive Brew stacks? Also, wouldn't Parry be a bit ahead of Dodge because of our Swift Reflexes passive?
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~Jesus Christ

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Sengura View Post
    Can anyone explain why this is? I'd assume that Mastery would be the best stat for Brewmasters because it directly reduces the damage we take. The higher our Mastery, the less upfront physical damage we take. Why is that last?

    Also, why is Agi and haste so good for Brewmasters? I'm guessing Crit is so high because it procs Elusive Brew stacks? Also, wouldn't Parry be a bit ahead of Dodge because of our Swift Reflexes passive?
    Mastery does not directly reduce the damage we take. It reduces the UPFRONT damage we take. We still have to manage the DoT.

    Because haste and crit help with our active mitigation, which is extremely powerful, they easily outshine mastery, dodge, and parry.

    Haste is good because it provides more energy regeneration, which means more chi to spend, which means more active mitigation and healing. It also reduces our attack speed, which means more hits per minute, and therefore, more stacks of elusive brew per minute.

    Agility is good because it provides attack power (for self healing), crit (for elusive brew), and dodge.

    Crit is good because it provides elusive brew stacks, as you guessed.

    And yes, the priority is parry over dodge. If you want the correct stat priority, you can check my guide.

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Mastery: This is a big central point of the debate but I agree it looks to be a good choice for hard progression raiders due to helping negate the massive damage they will endure while pushing content under geared. For the average raider you will find a smother tanking experience with Haste>Crit setup.

    Agi = Dodge, AP(Guard Absorb, Self Heals), Crit (Elusive Brew)
    Also, wouldn't Parry be a bit ahead of Dodge because of our Swift Reflexes passive?
    The main benefit is the flat +5% parry. This works similar to the Swordshattering rune for DK's and is a straight buff to the % and not to the rating. Because of Diminishing Returns(DR) you will still want to keep Dodge Rating and Parry Rating relatively balanced (taking into account the Parry having less DR) to get the most total avoidance out of your stats. You are balancing the DR not trying to maximize Swift Reflexes.

    The effect when you parry an attack is just a DPS increase and doesn't provide any additional survival mechanic so again you'd prefer Haste>Crit and it doesn't look like you'll have any rating left over to put into Parry or Dodge anyways in most cases considering our gear won't naturally have it.
    * Side note, can the attack that parry's proc an EB stack or generate a GotO orb? That would mean a marginal benefit to Parry preference but still not above other stats.
    Last edited by SurrealNight; 2012-10-03 at 08:13 PM. Reason: All kinds of typos

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  18. #18
    I've personally been thinking about putting more emphasis on mastery and keeping a bit of a balance between mastery and crit. Because with the more haste we have the more chi we will generate meaning the more stagger we can purify off quicker. So if we can reach a certain point where our haste means that we get enough chi flow to use purifying brew more we can then take even less damage with mastery. This, I hope, would help smooth out damage even more instead of more RNG "spikes" (due to dodge increase).
    Last edited by Noviskers; 2012-10-03 at 09:15 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    Mastery does not directly reduce the damage we take. It reduces the UPFRONT damage we take. We still have to manage the DoT.
    That may be true, but Purifying Brew doesn't have a cooldown, so technically you can stagger more damage and use PB more often instead of using the Chi on something else like Chi Wave.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~Jesus Christ

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Sengura View Post
    That may be true, but Purifying Brew doesn't have a cooldown, so technically you can stagger more damage and use PB more often instead of using the Chi on something else like Chi Wave.
    Managing the DoT isn't just using PB. It's managing PB usage with limited resources and balancing its use with BoK for shuffle. Throwing more stats into mastery will just make haste even BETTER, because with haste comes more chi per minute, which means more PB's without having to sacrifice shuffle uptime.

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