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  1. #61
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephlim View Post
    Cosmetic appearance in GW2 IS the end game.
    I think you missed the part where the whole game is end game
    Morpheus: Do you believe that my being stronger or faster has anything to do with my muscles in this place? Do you think that's air you're breathing now?

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Remilia View Post
    It doesn't matter if it's AAA, it's still an MMO.
    EQ2 changes model via an appearance slot. Have the item? Put it into the appearance slot. Quick change, no cost, no anything. Dyes come in one type, RBG if I remember correctly, pick whatever color, minimal and one time cost I believe. Believe it's two part, can't remember exactly.
    If you don't need to attune the item (example of an common / uncommon item), then you can transfer that among all characters. Believe it doesn't have an item type requirement other than weapon, though I may be wrong on that. I just remember my bard (chain) wearing some cloth and leather at points. Don't think I wore a plate though.

    To stat transfer is exactly the same as taking one item's look and slap it onto another's appearance.
    Also reskin is not remodel. To replace an appearance is to take a completely different model set from a gear and use that as the appearance. A reskin is to take the same model and apply a different texture.

    Plus, why keep saying inferior when it is exactly the same thing.

    EQ2
    http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Appearance
    If you don't know by the description. Attune = soul binding it.
    LOTRO
    http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Outfitting
    It's the same as any appearance slots in other games. It is a much better method as it wastes nothing, costs nothing.
    It is the exact same result and costs nothing other than some clicking, overrides any appearance that you have yet keeps the same stats. Gives you customizations that are easy to flip around and make you look like a clown if you wish or make you look like whatever just as long as you have the item in the inventory. No gold cost, no real money cost, no npc, etc.

    SWTOR's system is just taking an already item that you can shell out it's mods and such and stick it into another 'orange' item (another item with sockets), and it'd receive the same stats and will retain the appearance of the orange item. However, costs credits.

    GW2's appearance change is no different than WoW's with the exception of adding a dye and pretty much the same as Tera's, except Tera also allows you a choice of RBG dyes. It is just taking another item, then destroying (not in WoW for this case) and transferring that appearance to another piece of gear.

    Type google - Rift Dye. Receive nice article
    http://riftwardrobe.wikia.com/wiki/Dyes

    Saying you can't find anything is a bit of a cop out.
    Did you even read what I wrote or just had a reflexive reaction....?
    "Bill Nye: So Todd I got an offer for you. You and me. Any time. Any place. Debating science mano- a-mano. I'll bring the facts, and you bring the Vaseline. Because your ass is gonna fucking need it when I'm done whipping."

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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Karizee View Post
    I think you missed the part where the whole game is end game

    I think you missed the part where I have 100% map completion . Unless you think grinding random mobs is end game...

  4. #64
    Moderator Remilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtgizmo View Post
    Did you even read what I wrote or just had a reflexive reaction....?
    You're saying things about other games and how they do appearance slot.
    You lazily googled and didn't even acquired the most basic of articles.
    You're saying some of the other game's appearance methods are inferior when in fact they aren't any different.
    All I did was provide information and my own opinion, how you inferred that was up to you, apparently negatively though.
    Last edited by Remilia; 2012-10-04 at 02:55 AM.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Nephlim View Post
    Here's the problem I have with the gear Transmutation in GW2 and comparing it to other MMOs. Cosmetic appearance in GW2 IS the end game.
    Just because end game to you means getting blocked by some sort of artificially grindy doesn't mean that the end game is cosmetic. There are people out there who enjoy a longer journey with all the dynamic events (not just the ones that pop up on your screen while you are trying to complete a zone) while reading and listening to everything, roleplaying, pvp, etc. All those are valid "end game", your point is invalid no matter how you twist the meaning of end game.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Nephlim View Post
    I think you missed the part where I have 100% map completion . Unless you think grinding random mobs is end game...
    Then you have completed the game to your satisfaction level. Nothing more to do, and if you are bored I suggest you look elsewhere since nothing new is going to suddenly appear that will keep you interested. hopefully you don't think you were cheated out of $60 and got your money's worth of entertainment.

    When I finally have 100% of the map complete, have finished my storyline and completed all the dungeons then I will probably just log in to play Spvp and WvW for a while. Since I'm a long way off on any of those things my $60 would of stretched out over 500hrs perhaps even more by then.

    Some people will burn through the content and then complain there is nothing to do. When I finished other games like say metal gear solid I don't feel the need to log on to their forums and complain there is nothing to do after the credits roll. There is a limit and sounds like you've hit it.
    "you can't be serious!!" - yes actually I am.

  7. #67
    Mechagnome Snakehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSerious View Post
    Then you have completed the game to your satisfaction level. Nothing more to do, and if you are bored I suggest you look elsewhere since nothing new is going to suddenly appear that will keep you interested. hopefully you don't think you were cheated out of $60 and got your money's worth of entertainment.

    When I finally have 100% of the map complete, have finished my storyline and completed all the dungeons then I will probably just log in to play Spvp and WvW for a while. Since I'm a long way off on any of those things my $60 would of stretched out over 500hrs perhaps even more by then.

    Some people will burn through the content and then complain there is nothing to do. When I finished other games like say metal gear solid I don't feel the need to log on to their forums and complain there is nothing to do after the credits roll. There is a limit and sounds like you've hit it.
    My sentiments exactly. Far too many expect anet to cave in to their demands and make this guild wars 2: wow edition. I for one find enough to do just leveling and can appreciate a game that doesn't force players to quickly rush through the leveling content just so they can jump on the gear hamster wheel.

  8. #68
    The Lightbringer Rukh's Avatar
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    By definition you can't be doing end game the whole way.


    What people mean is what you do at max level doesn't drastically change from what you do while leveling. That's all fine and well, but in most games you can do what you did leveling when you are at max level. Its just then they have other things like raids at the end also.
    Last edited by Rukh; 2012-10-04 at 07:35 AM.

  9. #69
    I agree 100% with this review. Good read

  10. #70
    Herald of the Titans Jigain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukh View Post
    By definition you can't be doing end game the whole way.

    What people mean is what you do at max level doesn't drastically change from what you do while leveling. That's all fine and well, but in most games you can do what you did leveling when you are at max level. Its just then they have other things like raids at the end also.
    The key difference is that most other MMOs change the way the game is played by design once you reach max level, whereas GW2 by design does not. Sure you can argue that you could play, say, WoW at max level by only doing every quest you didn't do while leveling up, but that's not how the game was designed. It was designed to be a questing experience up to max level, then instanced co-operative gameplay, leading into instanced co-operative gameplay on a larger scale than is reasonable while doing the pre-max level gameplay. I'm not saying this is a bad way of doing it, I'm simply saying that's how it's designed. GW2 on the other hand was designed to let you do everything there's to do at max level while you're leveling. In other words, if by some reasoning ArenaNet were to implement, say, 25-man instanced PvE content in GW2... there'd be plenty of occasions where you could do it long before you reached max level, following their game design.

    So you can't really say "but you could do anything in X game as well", because the way the games were designed are vastly different.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Karizee View Post
    I think you missed the part where the whole game is end game
    That's just a marketing line Arena.net made up. It's not even logical.

    However, the spirit of what you are saying; that GW2 isn't some other game at l80 apart from what it was at l9 or l52 is accurate to the franchise.

    edit: Or what Jigain basically said above this post. Essentially, not a bimodal endgame. Take a drink.

  12. #72
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephlim View Post
    I think you missed the part where I have 100% map completion . Unless you think grinding random mobs is end game...
    Why would you do that when there is so much else to do?

    Unless you're talking about the game not having raids. The running of one instance over and over for months on end.
    The reality is that is an old concept, it's tired, it's boring and not very many people are looking for that from a MMO.
    Just look at WoW for instance. For their last tier with 10 million subscribers, only ~670,000 were raiders. GW2 is not going for that tiny sliver of a market.

    But that doesn't mean there isn't a ton of stuff to do once you reach max level
    Morpheus: Do you believe that my being stronger or faster has anything to do with my muscles in this place? Do you think that's air you're breathing now?

  13. #73
    How do you know there were only 670k raiders in World of Warcraft?

    Also, technically. GW2's design style is older than instance based raiding. Most MMOs were more like GW2 back in the day than like WOW/TOR/whatever.

  14. #74
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    Morpheus: Do you believe that my being stronger or faster has anything to do with my muscles in this place? Do you think that's air you're breathing now?

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Karizee View Post
    You are taking into consideration only those who actually succeded.
    How many tried and failed? The wannabe raiders?
    Many, many more. The backbone of WoW.
    The same guys that say "GW2 has no endgame", but never went past 2nd boss in FL.
    Imho, the carrot & stick system still works. It's easy and it works.
    I am a leaf on the wind; watch how I soar.

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  16. #76
    Erm. There are literally thousands of guilds for that tier listed. I stopped looking after 4 thousand or so guilds that were just 8/8. I think your "evidence" is a bit flimsy.

    Edit: I kept looking. At over +6k deep in the guild listings for 8/8(H) alone.

    Edit: Unless I am reading this incorrectly. Does not WOW have like multi-mode raids of the same tier? I don't play WoW. Many things about WoW seem strange/nonsensical to me. But if wiki is correct that seems like a good deal more than 670k players. Which is massive enough to dwarf like the entire sub base of other MMOs. Like just Blizz's raid population if so.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2012-10-04 at 02:34 PM.

  17. #77
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    For the first boss, 54,842 10m guilds + 4,832 25m guilds.
    No need to count, multiplication is your friend.
    Morpheus: Do you believe that my being stronger or faster has anything to do with my muscles in this place? Do you think that's air you're breathing now?

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Karizee View Post
    For the first boss, 54,842 10m guilds + 4,832 25m guilds.
    No need to count, multiplication is your friend.
    And that includes these multi mode raids? Incomplete progress and so on?

    I honestly am not sure how their multi mode raids work. I assume it is like TOR.

  19. #79
    That's not even counting people that raided in LFR, which was very popular. And not counting the fact that there's typically way more than 10 raiders in a 10-man raid guild and WAY more than 25 raiders in a 25-man raiding guild. WoWprogress also tends to not see pugs at all because of how it tracks the achivements, so that's totally out of the picture, too.

    In other words, your stats are way way way off. WoWprogress is just that...for tracking guild progess. It's not meant to be a census tool at all.

  20. #80
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    Not sure what you mean by multi-mode raids.
    The first boss on normal mode went down if you sneezed. Obviously if people were working on that for 9+ months and didn't get it, they weren't a raider.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-04 at 07:47 AM ----------

    For just as many people that are sitting on a bench, you have people that are running alts in another guild.

    Really, raiding isn't the end all be all to MMOs. GW2 is fine without raids
    Morpheus: Do you believe that my being stronger or faster has anything to do with my muscles in this place? Do you think that's air you're breathing now?

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