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  1. #21
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecund View Post
    So I downloaded an addon called Proculas to do a quick test.

    Level: 86
    Attacking: Level 85 Test Dummy
    Time: 5 minutes

    Dual Wield
    Weapon Speed: 2.6/2.6
    Crit: 24.54
    Procs Total: 90
    PPM: 18.64

    2H
    Weapon Speed: 3.3
    Crit: 24.13
    Procs Total: 64
    PPM: 12.80

    Seems it was not imagination about getting procs faster with dual wield over 2H.
    But what are the stats on the different weapons? I think you'd need to find equal ilvl white items to compare whether DW or 2H generates stacks faster. If your DW weapons were both crit/haste and your 2Her was hit/mastery, of course the DW would generate more procs. (Not that I'm arguing 2Her is faster/equal/whatever--I also notice I get more with DW, but we want an accurate test).

    As for the difference in stats... I think we need to compare actual weapon setups to each other (including enchants). We're never going to have full flexibility of secondary stats in a given tier, so that can strongly influence the 2H vs DW choice.

    Speaking of enchants, do we know the cooldowns for the procs? If we had DW and colossus had a single cooldown (as opposed to a cooldown per weapon), we might want to have something like windsong on our OH (which seems to be 3 separate procs for each stat that can overlap).

  2. #22
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abysal View Post
    Have to consider the benefits of 2 weapon enchants vs 1 compared to the loss of stats.
    Well both weapons will use Dancing Steel and Blizz listed it as "Dancing Steel: 1PPM on melee attacks that land." found a note indicating a 12 second duration but can't confirm so removed note of average agility for now. Also, since you can't control when you proc it just adds another RNG element so your better off testing with un-enchanted weapons.

    Either way if someone could prove that DW or 2H (at X weapon speed) created significantly more stacks I would take that over anything. Uptime of +30% dodge is pretty hard to beat by anything else.
    Last edited by SurrealNight; 2012-10-03 at 04:16 PM.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  3. #23
    The iLvl should not matter for evaluating procs (it would matter for other things, but not for elusive brew). The speed of the weapons is what's important, since that's what keys to procs of elusive brew.

    I think I remember seeing something about the proc mechanics such that it's a smooth progression of procs/speed, rather than a tiered one. So, for example, a 2.0 speed 1-hander might be the 'baseline' 1 stack per crit, while 2.6 might be 1.5 stacks per crit. What we really need to know to evaluate this mechanic is the lowest and highest speeds that actually affect the number of stacks. If a 3.6 speed crit produces the same number of stacks on average as a 3.3 speed weapon, then we will prefer the 3.3 speed weapon in practice.

    So the project is this: Get many different speeds of weapons, reforge for the same crit and haste in all cases, and run parses on each of the setups. ignore ilvl (it's irrelevant for testing this mechanic), control for crit, haste, expertise, and hit, and judge total procs in even variable times. Only after someone does this for all realistic speeds of DW and 2H setups will we really be able to make comparisons, as elusive brew will remain an unknown otherwise.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by chibichibiko View Post
    The iLvl should not matter for evaluating procs (it would matter for other things, but not for elusive brew). The speed of the weapons is what's important, since that's what keys to procs of elusive brew.

    I think I remember seeing something about the proc mechanics such that it's a smooth progression of procs/speed, rather than a tiered one. So, for example, a 2.0 speed 1-hander might be the 'baseline' 1 stack per crit, while 2.6 might be 1.5 stacks per crit. What we really need to know to evaluate this mechanic is the lowest and highest speeds that actually affect the number of stacks. If a 3.6 speed crit produces the same number of stacks on average as a 3.3 speed weapon, then we will prefer the 3.3 speed weapon in practice.

    So the project is this: Get many different speeds of weapons, reforge for the same crit and haste in all cases, and run parses on each of the setups. ignore ilvl (it's irrelevant for testing this mechanic), control for crit, haste, expertise, and hit, and judge total procs in even variable times. Only after someone does this for all realistic speeds of DW and 2H setups will we really be able to make comparisons, as elusive brew will remain an unknown otherwise.

    Looks like it is time to start collecting weapons. I know it is not a scientific test or anything but really does seem like EB stacks faster with a DW setup over 1H when fighting a dungeon boss. That said, while leveling I use what ever setup gives me the highest iLevel weapons. Being human I prefer sword/mace for DW but it looks like top weapons for DW are going to be fist weapons, which makes me sad. I have yet to use a fist weapon, do you see them like you see DW weapons on your back? This is the one reason I prefer the look of 1H, looks stupid with two big huge clubs on my back.

  5. #25
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecund View Post
    I have yet to use a fist weapon, do you see them like you see DW weapons on your back? This is the one reason I prefer the look of 1H, looks stupid with two big huge clubs on my back.
    Fist weapons are big voids graphically which I think is a shame, not that you attack with them normally anyways but even un-glyph'd Jab won't display a fist weapon currently. They are the stealth fighters of the Monk class =P

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

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