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  1. #1

    2H or Dual Wield Tanking

    So, which way are most of you BM's going? I finally got two decent weapons and have been playing around with dual wield tanking. When DK's first came out I wanted to dual wield tank (it was an option in the early days as a frost tank) but it was never really viable, it seems like it is viable as a monk. Have only run two dungeons dual wielding (have not done any serious data analysis yet) but I seem to generate stacks of elusive brew faster this way. I have 7.6 hit but the off-hand misses a lot, getting hit capped for off-hand does not seem to be a viable option. My DPS is higher with two weapons, just not sure if it makes sense from a tanking/survival standpoint.

  2. #2
    I've been trying to figure out the same thing. If DW isn't too far behind 2h I will be doing it just because of loot distribution (we don't have anyone in out raid that uses 1h ago weapons). Playing in heroics ATM and it seems like DW prods elusive brew faster for me and my healer doesn't notice a difference, but I am still not positive about the stat loss.

  3. #3
    Legendary! Gallahadd's Avatar
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    The difference between the two is something like 0.2%, really it's TOTALLY up to you which you use, you will be 100% viable either way.

    That said I'll be going DW tanking, because it looks boss
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  4. #4
    Are you sure you are actually getting stacks faster?

    There are currently only two classes that use AGI 2 handed weapons and I doubt Blizzard would really want to make it so druids are the only ones that use them because they are no good for the other. So if dual wield is way ahead of 2 handed I would expect them to adjust things so they are closer. Chances are they will never be exactly the same (see Titans Grip vs SMF) but I doubt they want monks ignoring any weapons they can use.

  5. #5
    As much as Blizzard said they want it to be a play style choice, I am skeptical about that. My raid group has a kitty druid and a rogue (never played a rogue so not sure what they prefer mace/dagger/axe/sword). Really want to go dual wield with sword or mace because of the human racial bonus for expertise, makes hitting cap just a little bit easier.

  6. #6
    Whatever weapon has higher ilvl, imo. Right now my choices are 440 ish 1hers vs a 463 staff. Going with the staff.

  7. #7
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    I use glyph of Jab so the weapons are just cloak accessories.

    really just use what ever looks prettiest on your back.

  8. #8
    prefer the looks of DW.

  9. #9
    I use a two hander personally. Mainly because I'm using the staff Chen Stormstout uses in the MoP cinematic.

    I just prefer a 2 hander anyways, don't really like dual wielding.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by HollerTH View Post
    Are you sure you are actually getting stacks faster?
    I have not parsed it out yet, will after I hit 90 and have some time, but logically you should. Elusive Brew stacks are created from melee crits. Swinging a faster weapon and swinging two of them will increase the number of chances to crit. With the same crit rate for either style the total number over time should be equal, will have to figure out the exact math sometime soon.

  11. #11
    Brewmaster Jess Day's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecund View Post
    I have not parsed it out yet, will after I hit 90 and have some time, but logically you should. Elusive Brew stacks are created from melee crits. Swinging a faster weapon and swinging two of them will increase the number of chances to crit. With the same crit rate for either style the total number over time should be equal, will have to figure out the exact math sometime soon.
    They've made it roughly equal at the moment by letting 1handers only stack 1 charge of brew at a time, and the slowest 2 hander stacking 3.

    I personally prefer the slow method due to less chance to miss from dual wield penalty and less attacks overall being parried causing parry haste.

  12. #12
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    Parry haste was removed a while back.

    I feel like DW will produce smoother EB stacks, although over time they should be about even. I do like the idea of fighting with a staff more than dual wield, though. I'd say go with what you can get the best weapon for. It'll probably change each tier depending on the stats available on weapons (i.e. is there a crit/haste staff but no crit/haste 1Hers?)

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    I've been preferring 2H but equipping what ever I have the best off at the time iLevel wise. I do think 2H looks better as you can't even see the DW weapons almost but maybe that's just me coming from a DK =P

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  14. #14
    So I downloaded an addon called Proculas to do a quick test.

    Level: 86
    Attacking: Level 85 Test Dummy
    Time: 5 minutes

    Dual Wield
    Weapon Speed: 2.6/2.6
    Crit: 24.54
    Procs Total: 90
    PPM: 18.64

    2H
    Weapon Speed: 3.3
    Crit: 24.13
    Procs Total: 64
    PPM: 12.80

    Seems it was not imagination about getting procs faster with dual wield over 2H.

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Were both weapons the same iLevel? Really best to redo at 90 as scaling of all kinds of things gets weird pre-max level the way they have to do ratings and itemization.

    I do plan to build an equal iLevel set of both if possible until there is so harder evidence.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Fecund View Post
    So, which way are most of you BM's going? I finally got two decent weapons and have been playing around with dual wield tanking. When DK's first came out I wanted to dual wield tank (it was an option in the early days as a frost tank) but it was never really viable, it seems like it is viable as a monk. Have only run two dungeons dual wielding (have not done any serious data analysis yet) but I seem to generate stacks of elusive brew faster this way. I have 7.6 hit but the off-hand misses a lot, getting hit capped for off-hand does not seem to be a viable option. My DPS is higher with two weapons, just not sure if it makes sense from a tanking/survival standpoint.
    anyway for your special you need 7.5 hit and 7.5 expertise so it doesnt matter the off hand missing is offset with the + dmg while DW
    ENGLISH ISNT MY MAIN SPEC
    YOU NOW BREATH CONSCIOUSLY

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by McFrotton View Post
    anyway for your special you need 7.5 hit and 7.5 expertise so it doesnt matter the off hand missing is offset with the + dmg while DW
    Hit was 8.1 and expertise was 15.35. Trying to keep expertise at hard cap.

    I plan to test every level or so and changes in weapons. My 2H is iLevel 204 and the two maces were iLevel 210 and 204, there may be a difference there because of iLevel. For now I will stick with the dual wield until I get a better 2H and then will retest to see how things have changed.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Fecund View Post
    Level: 86
    Attacking: Level 85 Test Dummy
    Time: 5 minutes

    Dual Wield
    Weapon Speed: 2.6/2.6
    Crit: 24.54
    Procs Total: 90
    PPM: 18.64

    2H
    Weapon Speed: 3.3
    Crit: 24.13
    Procs Total: 64
    PPM: 12.80

    Seems it was not imagination about getting procs faster with dual wield over 2H.
    All you managed to do is prove that two-handers will get more stacks.... Dual-wield gets 1 stack per crit which would be 90. Lets assume 3.3 speed on the two hander only gives 2 stacks for each crit. That is still 128 stacks of Elusive brew over that time, more if 3.3 is slow enough for 3 stacks.

  19. #19
    Have to consider the benefits of 2 weapon enchants vs 1 compared to the loss of stats.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by RoninX3ph View Post
    All you managed to do is prove that two-handers will get more stacks.... Dual-wield gets 1 stack per crit which would be 90. Lets assume 3.3 speed on the two hander only gives 2 stacks for each crit. That is still 128 stacks of Elusive brew over that time, more if 3.3 is slow enough for 3 stacks.
    No, that is the total number of stacks (guess I should have made that clear). The addon will count each stack generated as a separate proc. If I can get one more stupid axe to drop I will have same iLevel of all three weapons and will test it again.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-03 at 09:39 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Abysal View Post
    Have to consider the benefits of 2 weapon enchants vs 1 compared to the loss of stats.
    That is true, I am not up to that point of analysis yet. After I figure out the difference between 1H vs DW for EB stacks I will start looking at that difference.

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