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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    it doesn't matter how many times it does them if they are all incorrect. if its not working right for the first iteration then the millionth one is still gonna be wrong.
    I like the proof here. Note: I've never done any work with sim craft I just know highly respected and contributing members of the WW and other communities support the work thatsimcraft can do, and I very much dislike how you constantly just slam it and call it wrong with absolutely no proof while also completely avoiding the information I was seeking just so you could attempt to get your un-backed point across. You've been completely off-topic to throw an unsupported argument at everyone.

  2. #22
    But aren't instant skills' damage only based off of the mainhand? So a slow 2h would give the highest damage on your skills. And the only thing DW would have better dps on, is white damage from auto-attacks.
    Winterblade 90 Worgen Death Knight
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Regen View Post
    I like the proof here. Note: I've never done any work with sim craft I just know highly respected and contributing members of the WW and other communities support the work thatsimcraft can do, and I very much dislike how you constantly just slam it and call it wrong with absolutely no proof while also completely avoiding the information I was seeking just so you could attempt to get your un-backed point across. You've been completely off-topic to throw an unsupported argument at everyone.
    Yeah, that guy is off his rocker. Ignore him.

    @Seref: Nope. Monks are different from every other class.
    http://www.disargeria.net/2012/08/14...es-weapon-dps/

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Seref View Post
    But aren't instant skills' damage only based off of the mainhand? So a slow 2h would give the highest damage on your skills. And the only thing DW would have better dps on, is white damage from auto-attacks.
    I do recall the damage calcs on the tooltips showing both main hand and offhand damage/speed in the calculations.

  5. #25
    Read the link I posted, it goes into great detail about how monk abilities actually work.

  6. #26
    Biggest difference is in how some procs or abilities are handled, due to increased attack speed from DW.

    But other than that, i do not know any perfectly reliable method for instantly determining what weapon combo is better - put Recount on and see how your DPS performs in 5man HC or LFR or wherever.

  7. #27
    I did that. It seemed that between two bosses that the one handers held up better.

  8. #28
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Use what you like not what is the "best".
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

    -Christopher Hitchens, 13 April 1949 – 15 December 2011

  9. #29
    Personally, I prefer the "use whatever looks cooler" philosophy. What's the point in having high deeps, if you don't have the e-peen to match it? ~.^
    Winterblade 90 Worgen Death Knight
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Use what you like not what is the "best".
    Hi there.

    It's awesome that you're a casual player and don't care about your performance. That is perfectly valid. You pay your fifteen bucks a month just like the rest of us and deserve to play the game as you see fit.

    However, coming into a thread that is explicitly about performance and saying "you should ignore performance" is a pretty textbook example of trolling. I'm sure you didn't mean to troll, so I wanted to give a heads-up.

  11. #31
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Hi there.

    It's awesome that you're a casual player and don't care about your performance. That is perfectly valid. You pay your fifteen bucks a month just like the rest of us and deserve to play the game as you see fit.

    However, coming into a thread that is explicitly about performance and saying "you should ignore performance" is a pretty textbook example of trolling. I'm sure you didn't mean to troll, so I wanted to give a heads-up.
    I should elaborate more, I just mean, from the posts I was reading it is not more that a 4% discrepancy in current max level gear between DW and 2H, in the scheme of things that 4% is from the same dps spec and would not be extremely noticeable in a raiding environment if your skill level was at the highest level for your spec. I have chosen DW frost on my DK in the past because of performance as well, and even when it was behind 2H frost I still had it because I found it looked cooler. In reality it seems like most classes/specs that can DW for DPS tend to come ahead in higher tiers of gear. So DW probably is the way to go if you want a slight increase.
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

    -Christopher Hitchens, 13 April 1949 – 15 December 2011

  12. #32
    The thread is even more explicitly about the math behind determining which would be a Better choice, too. It's more of a fact seeking thing rather than "tell me what to use I suck"

  13. #33
    It's a 4.8% difference at T14H gear level, yes. Of course it's subjective, but most players would say that a near 5% difference is pretty darn significant. 1-2%, maybe not. I skip FoF myself. But 5%?

    And remember it plays identically. You don't hit different buttons or anything, you just use 1H weapons and do more damage.

  14. #34
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    It's a 4.8% difference at T14H gear level, yes. Of course it's subjective, but most players would say that a near 5% difference is pretty darn significant. 1-2%, maybe not. I skip FoF myself. But 5%?

    And remember it plays identically. You don't hit different buttons or anything, you just use 1H weapons and do more damage.
    I just wonder if Blizzard will ever be able to fix the discrepancies? It seems so simple but its probably ridiculously tedious adjustments to get them to be the same or even close. To me the culprit is the passive that gives the 40% DW damage or the 40% 2H attack speed, adjusting those numbers may help, or hurt. I can definitely see them adjusting those numbers or adding to the passive in the future to make 2H on par, maybe have like a 2% damage increase when using 2H.
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

    -Christopher Hitchens, 13 April 1949 – 15 December 2011

  15. #35
    The problem is that the gap increases as your gear improves, because dual-wielding scales better with attackpower and monks have very strong autoattacks with way of the monk and tiger strikes. It should be fixed in the Way of the Monk passive, yeah.

  16. #36
    Im not sure if its true with Monks, but 've seen in the past when DW or 2H is a determining factor, stat priority changes as well.
    I don't have any of the equations to determine it...but perhaps with 2H Crit is better than say Haste and vice versa...


    And then of course there is the determining if different iLevel options are better than others.
    IE a iLevel 100 2H vs say a 125 MH and 90 OH? (I made up those iLevel for example)


    not even factoring in any racial that may or may not get associated with the 1Hs.


    I'd love to see a template where you just plug in weapon A vs Weapon B1+B2 but I think the entire toon will have to be involved in the equation.

  17. #37
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayinjersey View Post
    Im not sure if its true with Monks, but 've seen in the past when DW or 2H is a determining factor, stat priority changes as well.
    I don't have any of the equations to determine it...but perhaps with 2H Crit is better than say Haste and vice versa...


    And then of course there is the determining if different iLevel options are better than others.
    IE a iLevel 100 2H vs say a 125 MH and 90 OH? (I made up those iLevel for example)


    not even factoring in any racial that may or may not get associated with the 1Hs.


    I'd love to see a template where you just plug in weapon A vs Weapon B1+B2 but I think the entire toon will have to be involved in the equation.
    Actually ya you are right stat priority can change too like DK 2H is haste, DW is mastery. For monks is that the case too?
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

    -Christopher Hitchens, 13 April 1949 – 15 December 2011

  18. #38
    Herald of the Titans Christan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    honestly from my in game exepraince there is little to no difference in heroic gear using DW vs a 2h. If one becomes better then the other blizz will prolly fix it seeing out they stated specifically they wanted it to be a flavor option not something that was better then one or the other
    i remember that post..

    thing is, i can't help but think about the hit penalties you get for going DW...all those missed attacks hurt procs, going 2h on my brewmaster(64 atm) because of that, and well, unless it isn't sub-par to use two str tanking 1h's???
    was thinking so but the possibility isn't there,

    atm working off what feels right rather than looking up specific rotations, doing pretty well, 3 manned with a hunter and WW first boss on in BF, self healing and whatnot is pretty awesome -i had to use more blackout kicks and less aoe /sigh, but no deaths and i healed the hunter a bit as well lol
    Still I cry, tears like pouring rain, Innocent is my lurid pain.

  19. #39
    Even though you miss more, BrM gets more elusive brew procs with DW than 2H and WW does more damage with DW than 2H. Stat priorities shouldn't change. DKs play differently with 2H vs DW; monks don't.

    There are no 1H weapons with tank stats in MoP over ilvl 450, so effectively nothing usable. Except for mastery of course, but that's also a DPS stat.

  20. #40
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Even though you miss more, BrM gets more elusive brew procs with DW than 2H and WW does more damage with DW than 2H. Stat priorities shouldn't change. DKs play differently with 2H vs DW; monks don't.

    There are no 1H weapons with tank stats in MoP over ilvl 450, so effectively nothing usable. Except for mastery of course, but that's also a DPS stat.
    I guess WoW's engine is just finally showing its age in a bad way with stuff like this, but its always been a balancing act from start to finish.
    Last edited by Unholyground; 2012-10-05 at 07:16 PM.
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

    -Christopher Hitchens, 13 April 1949 – 15 December 2011

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