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  1. #41
    They nerfed it.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephur View Post
    Hit (3.71) > Str (3.23) > Exp (2.58) > Haste (1.69) Crit (1.40) > Mastery (1.32)

    Daelo's Final Words > Lessons of the Darkmaster > N JCF / Iron Belly Wok
    Oh. That's unexpected. I was so looking forward to buying IBW instead of my Lessons.. guess I have to look for Daelo now. Are you sure of these weights? Shittiest luck pal with each week sha kill+amulet use, still 0 tier pieces.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    Dancing Steel

    I put Dancing Steel on my new wep last night and havent had a chance to test it yet, is the proc predictable? i know it has a 12sec buff, but trying to tell whether it can be predicted to align with cd's (thinking of having ICD button in clcinfo to monitor this ofc), or it truely is random

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6893549789 says
    "Dancing Steel: 1 PPM on melee attacks that land." - that would avg out at 20% uptime if it just proc'd of white melee hits
    your test is showing a lot more, but im guessing its proccing from other "melee" abilities, CS, etc

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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephur View Post
    I would guess that Daelo's and Lessons are ranked higher than they should be because of great static stats.
    After reading the above and checking your spreadsheet, I have a minor suggestion for trinkets with static hit or expertise.

    The only time a piece of gear with static hit and/or expertise is actually worth the full value of those stats is when someone is gearing up to hit/expertise cap for the first time and previously was not capped. For someone already hit/expertise capped, you have to assume they won't be utilizing the full amount of the hit/exp and would likely rejigger many pieces of gear in order to fit the new stats in.

    So basically I don't think you should compare trinkets with static hit or expertise to other trinkets without making an adjustment for hit/expertise. They will always look better than they are if left unadjusted.

    Its never perfect because of reforging ranges but probably the easiest assumption to make is that 40% of the static hit/expertise amount is reforged to the spec's best secondary non-cap stat, in our case haste.
    Last edited by tavistra; 2012-10-23 at 09:47 PM.

  5. #45
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firegalus View Post
    I put Dancing Steel on my new wep last night and havent had a chance to test it yet, is the proc predictable? i know it has a 12sec buff, but trying to tell whether it can be predicted to align with cd's (thinking of having ICD button in clcinfo to monitor this ofc), or it truely is random

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6893549789 says
    "Dancing Steel: 1 PPM on melee attacks that land." - that would avg out at 20% uptime if it just proc'd of white melee hits
    your test is showing a lot more, but im guessing its proccing from other "melee" abilities, CS, etc
    I Maintain about a 45% uptime on Dancing Steel and there are ways that you can setup addons to track ICD's from enchants based on time so you have a better idea of when they are going to proc.
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    I Maintain about a 45% uptime on Dancing Steel and there are ways that you can setup addons to track ICD's from enchants based on time so you have a better idea of when they are going to proc.
    45% uptime would give it an "average" icd of 27secs, i'll plug that in to a clcinfo ICD icon, and give it a run through tonights raid

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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Firegalus View Post
    45% uptime would give it an "average" icd of 27secs, i'll plug that in to a clcinfo ICD icon, and give it a run through tonights raid
    i don't think it has an actual ICD since it refreshed several times for me while the buff still had ~2-4 sec remaining

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by rydl View Post
    i don't think it has an actual ICD since it refreshed several times for me while the buff still had ~2-4 sec remaining
    This is correct. Dancing Steel follows the new PPM rules; overwrites are possible.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephur View Post
    This is correct. Dancing Steel follows the new PPM rules; overwrites are possible.
    Actually I believe that blues said only Windsong and Elemental Force are on the new real PPM rules. Dancing Steel/Jade Spirit are still on the old PPM system. You are correct that it still wouldn't have an ICD though.

  10. #50
    Ah, you're right. I thought it was all three.

  11. #51
    Dancing Steel is definitely RNG and unforcastable with ICD icon monitoring

    I was seeing uptimes slightly higher than requital tho
    - 52% uptime on Feng Hc
    - 42%->55% uptime on Gara'jal Hc (progress) tries

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  12. #52
    Anyone know what the spellid is for the Carbonic Carbuncle's proc?

    EDIT: Nevermind, found it; 126513
    Last edited by Grognard; 2012-10-25 at 07:31 PM.
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  13. #53
    I'll be getting Iron Belly Wok next week. My current trinkets are Carbonic Carbuncle, and daelo's. So I just wanna confirm if you can pop both IBW and Daelo's w/o conflict? or will I have to use Carbonic and IBW? Also does Daelo's rating Increase if I'm using all the hit from it? And finally, is it a good idea to macro IBW with ES for max uptime when waiting for CD's?

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Almond Royale View Post
    I'll be getting Iron Belly Wok next week. My current trinkets are Carbonic Carbuncle, and daelo's. So I just wanna confirm if you can pop both IBW and Daelo's w/o conflict? or will I have to use Carbonic and IBW? Also does Daelo's rating Increase if I'm using all the hit from it? And finally, is it a good idea to macro IBW with ES for max uptime when waiting for CD's?
    No, you can't use two "Use" trinkets at the same time. I'm currently stuck with Lessons, Daelo's, and Springs, and each of them incur a cooldown on the other. IBW will behave the same way. Macroing it to ES will make no difference, since (I'm pretty sure) ES is not affected by haste. However, you might as well macro it in to minimize accidental downtime.

    The value of Daelo's is actually artificially high because of its hit. It's really good, but don't stick with it once you have access to better trinkets. I'm not sure if it's better than Carbuncle when paired with IBW. Run a couple sims in your gear to check for yourself.

  15. #55
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Need to update list 4 set now gives us a 2 minute wings basically. with it's nerf from 65 sec from 85 sec reduction

    Need to test this with trinkets and with HA now that its a 100% uptime CD stack.

    Why do i get the feeling we only got nerfed to make the other talents not look so horrible with 4 set

  16. #56
    Considering that no one can even have 4 set yet, they definitely didn't nerf it because it was OP in practice. I'll get the sim updated and run tests.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Balhale View Post
    Considering that no one can even have 4 set yet, they definitely didn't nerf it because it was OP in practice. I'll get the sim updated and run tests.
    Probably got too close to warlocks and mages on their internal testing. Oh well.

  18. #58
    Doing a cleanup raid in 20 minutes, but I'll update the spreadsheet and get a new release out tonight.

  19. #59
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balhale View Post
    Considering that no one can even have 4 set yet, they definitely didn't nerf it because it was OP in practice. I'll get the sim updated and run tests.
    You don't have to have it to know the dps increaes it provides. People aren't retarded

    More likely tho it was nerfed to make other talents appealing and SW not so dominant since it's now in sync with HA.
    I'm thinking SW will still be better tho because u won't have to delay to make sure SW wings are up with procs. VP upgrade system is soon so the procs will be pumped with VP to be larger.

    I bet we have a good chance of wings going 2 mins baseline in T15 and this bonus being rolled into the class.

    This is also ANOTHER bonus to engineering 2min CD syncs vs 1:35
    and another reason to reroll to it. Plus the glider is awesome.

    I'm so tempted
    Last edited by anaxie; 2012-11-03 at 05:49 PM.

  20. #60
    I actually opted for two on-use trinkets (IBW and LotDM), and found a nice way to chain them, at least at start of pull/initial CD burst.

    IBW > 5sec in pop GoAK > 10sec in pop AW and LotDM. I'm not raiding more than LFR (just no drive and working evenings 4 nights a week), but this seems to be damn sound way to use em, if this is your choice of options. Gives you only 5sec of IBW with no other bonus, and the rest of it has GoAK, plus the other two have full coverage. Having the Haste at the start is nice, to help speed up the HP generation just slightly as you kick into starting out on a pull.
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