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  1. #1

    New Ret Trinkets Rating Estimation Thread - Seeing through the Mists [WIP]

    Back in 4.3, Kisko put an excellent thread together that ranked expected trinket DPS. It looks like Kisko has retired, and though Anaxie has continued his thread, no one has picked up this one. In an effort to cut down on the number of threads asking what trinkets are BiS as we move from 5.0 to 5.1 and beyond, I'll be working to keep this thread up to date.

    Excel tool

    Available here. Try it out and, if you're handy with Excel, critique my methodology. Nothing is locked down, so play around.


    Stat Weights

    I have a set of T14H weights generated in SimulationCraft, using the most up to date profiles available. Everyone should generate their own weights to get the most accurate trinket ranking for their gearset. (Please note that with the nerf to our 4pc T14, these will change slightly....we're just waiting on an updated release to run the numbers again.)

    T14H: Hit (3.73) > Str (3.61) > Exp (2.59) > Haste (2.02) > Mastery (1.64) > AP (1.57) > Crit (1.56)


    Trinket DPS (in BiS T14H)

    H Lei Shen's Final Orders (2/2) ------ 10528 dps | ICD 45s (Source: H Mogushan Vaults - Will of the Emperor)
    H Lei Shen's Final Orders (1/2) ------ 10118 dps | ICD 45s (Source: H Mogushan Vaults - Will of the Emperor)
    H Darkmist Vortex (2/2) ------------ 10036 dps | ICD 105s (Source: H Terrace of Endless Spring - Lei Shi)
    H Lei Shen's Final Orders (0/2) ------- 9717 dps | ICD 45s (Source: H Mogushan Vaults - Will of the Emperor)
    H Darkmist Vortex (1/2) -------------- 9649 dps | ICD 105s (Source: H Terrace of Endless Spring - Lei Shi)
    H Darkmist Vortex (0/2) -------------- 9279 dps | ICD 105s (Source: H Terrace of Endless Spring - Lei Shi)
    Lei Shen's Final Orders (2/2) ---------- 9240 dps | ICD 45s (Source: Mogushan Vaults - Will of the Emperor)
    Lei Shen's Final Orders (1/2) ---------- 8877 dps | ICD 45s (Source: Mogushan Vaults - Will of the Emperor)
    Darkmist Vortex (2/2) ----------------- 8836 dps | ICD 105s (Source: Terrace of Endless Spring - Lei Shi)
    Relic of Xuen (2/2) --------------------- 8834 dps | ICD 45s (Source: Darkmoon Faire - Darkmoon Tiger Deck)
    Lei Shen's Final Orders (0/2) ---------- 8534 dps | ICD 45s (Source: Mogushan Vaults - Will of the Emperor)
    Relic of Xuen (1/2) -------------------- 8498 dps | ICD 45s (Source: Darkmoon Faire - Darkmoon Tiger Deck)
    Darkmist Vortex (1/2) ---------------- 8494 dps | ICD 105s (Source: Terrace of Endless Spring - Lei Shi)
    Relic of Xuen (0/2) -------------------- 8175 dps | ICD 45s (Source: Darkmoon Faire - Darkmoon Tiger Deck)
    Darkmist Vortex (0/2) ---------------- 8172 dps | ICD 105s (Source: Terrace of Endless Spring - Lei Shi)
    LFR Lei Shen's Final Orders (2/2) ----- 8115 dps | ICD 45s (Source: LFR Mogushan Vaults - Will of the Emperor)
    LFR Lei Shen's Final Orders (1/2) ----- 7801 dps | ICD 45s (Source: LFR Mogushan Vaults - Will of the Emperor)
    LFR Darkmist Vortex (2/2) ------------ 7781 dps | ICD 105s (Source: LFR Terrace of Endless Spring - Lei Shi)
    Zen Alchemist Stone (1/1) ------------ 7728 dps | ICD 55s (Source: Alchemy BoP)
    LFR Lei Shen's Final Orders (0/2) ----- 7501 dps | ICD 45s (Source: LFR Mogushan Vaults - Will of the Emperor)
    LFR Darkmist Vortex (1/2) ------------ 7484 dps | ICD 105s (Source: LFR Terrace of Endless Spring - Lei Shi)
    Lessons of the Darkmaster (1/1) ----- 7446 dps | Use 120s (Source: Scholomance - Darkmaster Gandling)
    Zen Alchemist Stone (0/1) ------------ 7322 dps | ICD 55s (Source: Alchemy BoP)
    Jade Charioteer Figurine (2/2) -------- 7266 dps | Use 60s (Source: Mogu'Shan Vaults - Trash Drop)
    Iron Belly Wok (2/2) ------------------ 7266 dps | Use 60s (Source: Shado-Pan Revered - 1650 VP)
    LFR Darkmist Vortex (0/2) ------------ 7202 dps | ICD 105s (Source: LFR Terrace of Endless Spring - Lei Shi)
    Jade Charioteer Figurine (1/2) -------- 6993 dps | Use 60s (Source: Mogu'Shan Vaults - Trash Drop)
    Iron Belly Wok (1/2) ------------------ 6993 dps | Use 60s (Source: Shado-Pan Revered - 1650 VP)
    Lessons of the Darkmaster (0/1) ----- 6870 dps | Use 120s (Source: Scholomance - Darkmaster Gandling)
    Jade Charioteer Figurine (0/2) ------- 6735 dps | Use 60s (Source: Mogu'Shan Vaults - Trash Drop)
    Iron Belly Wok (0/2) ----------------- 6735 dps | Use 60s (Source: Shado-Pan Revered - 1650 VP)
    Skullrender Medallion ---------------- 6575 dps | Use 60s (Source: Dominance Offensive Revered - 1650 VP)
    Daelo's Final Words ------------------ 6421 dps | Use 90s (Source: World Drop BoE)
    Carbonic Carbuncle (1/1) ------------- 5688 dps | ICD 105s (Source: Stormstout Brewery - Yan-Zhu)
    Carbonic Carbuncle (0/1) ------------- 5275 dps | ICD 105s (Source: Stormstout Brewery - Yan-Zhu)


    Calculation & Logic

    DPS Calculation is: (StaticStat * StatWeight * StaticCoeff) + (ProcStat * StatWeight * ProcUptime [ProcDuration / ProcICD] * ProcCoeff)


    • Coefficients are based on a seven minute fight.
    • You will be able to get slightly better value out of any trinket by lining it up better with AW/GoAK/ES.
    • Prepot is used, and a second pot during second GoAK.
    • ES is used 5 secs into the fight to allow Inq, then on cooldown.
    • AW is used on the pull and on cooldown.
    • GoAK used on the pull and on cooldown.
    • Inq takes 5 secs to get up, then never falls off for more than 2.5 secs.
    • Proc trinkets take an average of 5 seconds to proc every time.
    • Use trinkets are used at 5 seconds (for Inq), then on cooldown.



    • All coefficients are based on your stat weights and SimCraft calculated dps.
    • Base proc value is the average DPS it would provide as a static stat, or ((ProcStat * StatWeight) + DPS)/DPS.
    • If a potion is up, you are getting a % dps increase of ((4000str * StrWeight) + DPS)/DPS. Multiply Base proc by this amount.
    • If ES is up during a proc, multiply the proc value by 1.05
    • If AW is up during a proc, multiply the proc value by 1.20
    • If GoAK is up during a proc, multiply the proc value by 1.17 (average gain from GoAK)
    • If Inq is not up (only on the pull), multiply the value by 0.8

    Changelog:

    3/10/12: First run at coefficients. Updated Ranking. WTF Daelo & Coren.
    3/10/12: Fixed up some calculation errors. Daelo & Lessons do not get a bonus to their static stats. (Hit / Exp)
    4/10/12: Fixed Daelo's, JCF, Inq uptime, 4pc lineup, minor bugfixes.
    5/10/12: Coren's Cold Chromium Coaster is garbage. With 25% crit chance, you have a 2.5% chance to proc it per attack, leading to poor uptime.
    10/10/12: Added link to Excel spreadsheet. Added proc trinket ICDs.
    16/10/12: Updated JCF and Iron Belly Wok procs. Fixed a couple minor calculation errors.
    4/11/12: New numbers for the 4pc nerf. Removed H & LFR JCF. Removed pre-raid DPS numbers. New spreadsheet release.
    7/12/12: New spreadsheet release with upgrade capabilities. Complete rankings for all trinket upgrade levels. Lei Shin's is now Lei Shen's!
    Last edited by Zephur; 2012-12-07 at 02:06 PM.

  2. #2
    While I cant help in the theory-crafting department, I do appreciate your work here. Thank you.

  3. #3
    My first run at coefficients. Daelo's Final Words and Coren's Cold Chromium Coaster look extremely good because of how often they line up with ES/AW in pre-raid gear.

    Dragonling does about 200dps on a boss level target, according to EJ, putting it way below everything else from MoP. Use it to level up, but replace it as soon as possible.

    Excel Sheet should be ready tomorrow. Have at it, theorycrafters!
    Last edited by Zephur; 2012-10-03 at 06:06 PM.

  4. #4
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    Can you add Eye of Unmaking HC, Creche of the Final Dragon HC and Bone Link Fetish HC? Would like to see how they stack up against Direbrew trinket, which I've been holding off from using because of the loss of static STR

  5. #5
    Added H Eye and H Creche, but BLF is a lot more complex because of its scaling. As Anaxie said in his thread, it's probably going to be excellent for trash and AoE.

  6. #6
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    Jade Charioteer Figurine(N) give 3595 haste on proc. Tooltip in game show it.
    And before use i have 4238(9.97%), after use i have 7833(18.43%).
    Restated please
    P.S. I cant post any kind of links or image. View my profile. Links to images there

    add Daelo's Final Words increases Strength only on by 5633
    Last edited by Seph1roth; 2012-10-03 at 10:14 PM.

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    I'll need to verify but I'm pretty sure the coaster being our lowest secondary stat is not that good, However it would require a little more testing to be sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  8. #8
    You should also do another Darkmist Vortex number set with the T14 4-set in mind because every good ret paladin is going to line Avenging Wrath up with Darkmist Vortex if at all possible. Also, Inq takes me like 4 seconds to have active. and I'm pretty sure there is no heroic Jade Charioteer Figurine because I saw people on beta doing 25-man heroics get the normal version off trash.
    Last edited by Reith; 2012-10-04 at 05:30 AM.

  9. #9
    Zen alchemist is really that high?

  10. #10
    OP will be updated shortly after this post.


    • Caught some minor errors
    • Fixed Daelo's proc (it's still really good)
    • Fixed JCF proc (proc scaling was exactly double my estimate)
    • Started Inq @ 5sec, and use trinkets as well

    Delaying AW for Vortex proc was an overall loss at seven minutes. It's a bit more bang for the buck to delay it only for Lei Shin's, which also tends to line up with ES.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-04 at 11:41 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    I'll need to verify but I'm pretty sure the coaster being our lowest secondary stat is not that good, However it would require a little more testing to be sure.
    Even though AP is our lowest stat, it's only barely behind crit. Since the proc is over 10k AP and has a pretty good uptime, it's looking pretty darn good.

  11. #11
    The 390 ilvl proc pvp trinket averages out to 956 strength by itself because it has the 429 strength main stat on top of the 1452 strength for 20 seconds with a 50 second ICD and assuming 5 seconds to activate, so it should be better than Creche.

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Even though AP is our lowest stat, it's only barely behind crit. Since the proc is over 10k AP and has a pretty good uptime, it's looking pretty darn good.
    Trinket appears to be about 67.8 seconds ICD with .38 PPM and a 6.28% uptime for a 20 min DPS test.

    It's practically impossible to line the trinket up with CD's due to the time difference and it's crit based not hit based, While we do have better crit than cata but it's still lower than most other classes. So if it was hit the trinket would be great but with it being crit not so great.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    Trinket appears to be about 67.8 seconds ICD with .38 PPM and a 6.28% uptime for a 20 min DPS test.

    It's practically impossible to line the trinket up with CD's due to the time difference and it's crit based not hit based, While we do have better crit than cata but it's still lower than most other classes. So if it was hit the trinket would be great but with it being crit not so great.
    Though when it comes to this one and the Carbonic Carbuncle isn't Coren's better ?
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Floross/simple

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  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floross View Post
    Though when it comes to this one and the Carbonic Carbuncle isn't Coren's better ?

    IMO No it's not, CC is the Carbonic buff. I'm testing Corens and Lessons of the Darkmaster as they are the 3 trinkets I have access to I'll post the results.

    If this was a hit trinket instead of crit yes it would be glorious but it's crit so it's meh but I did notice the ICD dropping to 50 seconds where the previous test it was around 70 so who knows.
    Last edited by Requital; 2012-10-05 at 03:51 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  15. #15
    Today's updates:

    • Ran 500k iterations in T14H BiS gear to get more exact weights; currently doing the same for Pre-Raid
    • Updated Coren's to 50s ICD, set it take 10s to proc on average (10% chance on crit), and increased its AP buff (10164 -> 10848). Big decrease in value, but still looking slightly better than Carbuncle.
    • Rearranging the list to order by Pre-Raid DPS instead of T14H, as that will be the most beneficial for now.

    List will be updated periodically today.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephur View Post
    Today's updates:

    • Ran 500k iterations in T14H BiS gear to get more exact weights; currently doing the same for Pre-Raid
    • Updated Coren's to 50s ICD, set it take 10s to proc on average (10% chance on crit), and increased its AP buff (10164 -> 10848). Big decrease in value, but still looking slightly better than Carbuncle.
    • Rearranging the list to order by Pre-Raid DPS instead of T14H, as that will be the most beneficial for now.

    List will be updated periodically today.
    What is the uptime you have the Coaster simming at according to SC.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  17. #17
    SC sims the coaster at 10.10% uptime, which is pretty bad. Average interval is 95.8s, which is also horrendous for a 50s ICD. That's reasonable close to your testing for now. Value drops pretty far down if they don't change it to work on hit instead (which is unlikely).

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephur View Post
    SC sims the coaster at 10.10% uptime, which is pretty bad. Average interval is 95.8s, which is also horrendous for a 50s ICD. That's reasonable close to your testing for now. Value drops pretty far down if they don't change it to work on hit instead (which is unlikely).
    Ya I was just curious how close sc was to my testing, thanks for the reply.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  19. #19
    Some calculations are really misleading. Did some 2 boss attempts ina new raid, and coren's is really weak. In raid-live proc rate is once per 2-3minutes. Usually went to second phase to see first proc or later.

    Only chance to get dps from coren's to match trinket list number, is to use Hor&Dstorm on 3x lvl 60 dummies.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Pawelek View Post
    Some calculations are really misleading. Did some 2 boss attempts ina new raid, and coren's is really weak. In raid-live proc rate is once per 2-3minutes. Usually went to second phase to see first proc or later.

    Only chance to get dps from coren's to match trinket list number, is to use Hor&Dstorm on 3x lvl 60 dummies.
    Yup, CCCC is garbage because it procs on crit only 10% of the time. Even Carbuncle is better.

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