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  1. #101
    While I think it's extremely likely that Lei Shin + Relic is better than Lei Shin + Vortex, try running both combinations in Simcraft to be sure.

  2. #102
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Could be wrong but i almost bet Vortex N> relic after the patch since a 2min wings and 105 vortex is basically the same scenario creche put us in. Even better since CD on wings is actually 1:55.
    It's certainly the best choice for on the pull cooldowns and anytime guardian is up because of his huge haste affects on his beefy autoswings.

  3. #103
    The Patient Phantoms's Avatar
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    I realize Blizzard really threw a wrench in the gears on this one, but is a 2x upgraded DMC going to beat an upgraded H Vortex? Obviously not everybody's going to get H Lei Shi loot in a heartbeat, just wanted to consider what upgrades do to jumble this list up.

  4. #104
    Relic of Xuen's proc doesn't seem to benefit from the upgrade. Ticketing blizzard now~

    EDIT: nevermind, it was client-side. I closed out WoW and re-opened it and it updated.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 06:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Could be wrong but i almost bet Vortex N> relic after the patch since a 2min wings and 105 vortex is basically the same scenario creche put us in. Even better since CD on wings is actually 1:55.
    It's certainly the best choice for on the pull cooldowns and anytime guardian is up because of his huge haste affects on his beefy autoswings.
    It's actually the exact same situation with Creche. Creche was at 1:50 and Wings was at 2 minutes. Darkmist Vortex is at 1:45 and Wings with 4-piece is 1:55. It's an equally crappy situation.
    Last edited by Reith; 2012-11-27 at 10:27 PM.

  5. #105
    So..
    I do have the same problem like the other ones -
    I've got at this moment all the three trinkets,
    Lei Shei's Normal
    Darkmist Vortex Normal
    Relic of Xuen

    As far as I know, Relic has received nerf in 5.1.

    @Zephur
    Can You do an upgrade?
    I am a menace to my own destiny.


    just roll a warrior. instead of crying about the imbalance - be the imbalance.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Thudin View Post
    So..
    I do have the same problem like the other ones -
    I've got at this moment all the three trinkets,
    Lei Shei's Normal
    Darkmist Vortex Normal
    Relic of Xuen

    As far as I know, Relic has received nerf in 5.1.
    That "nerf" was actually a data-mining error - and you should probably upgrade Lei Shin's Final Orders.

  7. #107
    I mean -
    I am not about to upgrade anything, but I was considering about which trinkets to use.
    I am a menace to my own destiny.


    just roll a warrior. instead of crying about the imbalance - be the imbalance.

  8. #108
    I'll be posting an updated list over the weekend with trinket values for the upgraded versions.

  9. #109
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    I upgraded my hc Lei Shen, on a 8min fight it procced 10 times and had a 41% uptime, really nice!
    9thorder.com | 14/14 Heroic 25-man | West 114 | Recruiting for Warlords of Draenor!

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  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephur View Post
    I'll be posting an updated list over the weekend with trinket values for the upgraded versions.
    Hmm... we're missing something?
    Nah, just jkin around, but I would be glad.
    I am a menace to my own destiny.


    just roll a warrior. instead of crying about the imbalance - be the imbalance.

  11. #111
    Looking forward to the updated list myself too.

    I only raid LFR, so I know that my Relic of Xuen is definitely BiS, but wanna be sure on my Darkmist Vortex vs the new Dominance Offensive Strength Trinket, before I commit any VP to upgrading it vs saving VP for the trinket.
    Games are not necessarily "easier" today. You are just a better player.
    It takes more now to impress many gamers than it did 2-5 years ago, because so much has already been seen and done.
    Many players expect to be wow'd with every release of a beloved franchise.
    These are generally NOT the fault of the developers, but the fault of many players over-hyping and/or setting expectations too high.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    I upgraded my hc Lei Shen, on a 8min fight it procced 10 times and had a 41% uptime, really nice!
    Upgrading doesnt change the ICD as far as i know, its still 45secs upgraded or not 8*60/45 = 10.66

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  13. #113
    Ok, have been working on the spreadsheet, but it wasn't playing really nice. Went about it a different way, and here are the results:

    Once upgraded, the absolute ranking of trinkets in the OP do not change, with two minor exceptions.

    1. It looks like I had an error in the value of the Zen Alch Stone, so it moved down one place, and LFR Vortex moved up one, even with the Stone being moved up to 458 baseline.

    2. Normal Vortex is a couple DPS ahead of Relic of Xuen, instead of the other way around. They are still, for all intents and purposes, equal.

    Here's what people are probably more interested in:

    H Lei Shin (2/2) >
    H Lei Shin (1/2) >
    H Vortex (2/2) >
    H Lei Shin (0/2) >
    H Vortex (1/2) >
    H Vortex (0/2) >= N Lei Shin (2/2) >
    N Lei Shin (1/2) >= N Vortex (2/2) >= Relic of Xuen (2/2) >
    N Lei Shin (0/2) >= Relic of Xuen (1/2) >= N Vortex (1/2) >
    Relic of Xuen (0/2) >= N Vortex (0/2) >= LFR Lei Shin (2/2) >
    LFR Lei Shin (1/2) >= LFR Vortex (2/2) >= Zen Alch Stone (1/1) >
    LFR Lei Shin (0/2) >= LFR Vortex (1/2) >= Lessons of the Darkmaster (1/1) >
    JCF/IBW (2/2) >= LFR Vortex (0/2) >
    Zen Alch Stone (0/1) >
    JCF/IBW (1/2) >
    Lessons of the Darkmaster (0/1) >
    JCF/IBW (0/2) >
    Skullrender Medallion >
    Daelo's Final Words >
    Carbonic Carbuncle (1/1) >
    Carbonic Carbuncle (0/1)

    Basically, nothing changes as far as BiS goes, but there's a lot of mishmash in the mid-range of trinkets where you won't find much difference at all. Everything on the same line as another trinket is within 100 dps. You will get a bigger overall boost from trinkets that naturally synergize (eg: Relic & Lei Shin).

    New spreadsheet and OP will be updated when I get home tonight.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 09:18 AM ----------

    Had to work overtime around the house (read: my wife made me clean), so never got to post updated spreadsheet.

    I will do it tonight! Work blocks Dropbox.

  14. #114
    OP has been updated! Complete rankings available and new spreadsheet link should work. I'll be doing another update in the near future with new weights from SimCraft.

  15. #115
    Any chance to add http://www.wowhead.com/item=93344 as well to the list? or its that bad?
    Armory links: Paladin Death Knight

  16. #116
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedjaland View Post
    Any chance to add http://www.wowhead.com/item=93344 as well to the list? or its that bad?
    At a glance, I'd say it's lower than anything on the list. I think the list only shows heroic 5 man trinkets and better.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    At a glance, I'd say it's lower than anything on the list. I think the list only shows heroic 5 man trinkets and better.
    Yup, it's about 600dps below unupgraded Carbuncle.

  18. #118
    Why is it that the 2x upgraded Vortex is better than the 2x upgraded Relic, while the non-upgraded counterparts of each are flipped in order? Because of the haste vs strength proc?

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    Why is it that the 2x upgraded Vortex is better than the 2x upgraded Relic, while the non-upgraded counterparts of each are flipped in order? Because of the haste vs strength proc?
    The DPS difference is less than 5, which is statistically equal in SimCraft. It's just a matter of the proc on Vortex scaling very slightly better. Enter your own weights in the spreadsheet to determine what is best for you. Last week, Relic was 650dps ahead of Vortex for me. After getting two upgrades and rereunning my weights, it's only 450 dps ahead.

    Always, always, always run your own weights to check your trinkets.

  20. #120
    So let me see if i did understand this correct.

    N Lei Shin (0/2) > Relic of Xuen (1/2) > Vortex (0/2) without the 4-Set, Yes?
    Last edited by TehNuub; 2012-12-10 at 12:01 PM.

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