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  1. #41
    I can't comment on PvE, but they're in a pretty poor spot in PvP. Yes, a good one will still poop on inferior players, but that goes for any class. The problem is, rogues were fine in Cataclysm (yes, fine; they didn't start dominating until the legendaries and OP raid trinkets came into play) but all the whiners and Blizzard themselves were too ignorant to know it was the PvE gear, not the class mechanics, that made them too good. Now, rogues essentially either have to choose between mobility (which really isn't all that mobile compared to some other melee, such as warriors) or having CDs up a decent amount of time. In this day, you can't PvP without mobility. You just can't. So nobody takes prep, so not only do rogues lose the double set of CDs (which, other than smoke bomb, was completely reasonable) but base CDs were also nerfed to be even longer by default. It's just too many nerfs at one time, while other classes have only gained tools. It's frustrating, slow, and not fun to be so CD dependent when they've got such poor uptime. Even if warriors weren't so good, I wouldn't blame people for switching.

  2. #42
    After watching Vanguards and Reckful's stream (At my gf's place, so can't play, just watch streams) I can say about rogues that :



    I actually haven't seen a single rogue in this high rating 3v3 playing, but I can say that warrior and retribution paladin mobility is miles ahead from ours. Warriors are in a quite good spot right now.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 08:20 AM ----------

    A blue on the rogue forums!

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...0559?page=2#38
    Shadow Walk : Significantly increases Stealth effectiveness for 6 sec, but causes Stealth to be nerfed to justify its usage. In addition, it uses old Enveloping Shadows icon and has no sound, animation or spell effect to show that the skill is actually doing something.

  3. #43
    Much better than people make them out to be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Then the [MMORPG] genre started attracting more players. These players wanted more of a "game" and less of a "world" [...]

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfsage View Post
    Much better than people make them out to be.
    PVE wise, granted. PVP wise, I have no idea what you're talking about.
    I've yet to come across ONE person who doesn't think rogues are a joke in PVP at the moment.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    - PVP demands precise, hard burst. We do not have that.
    No it does NOT demand hard burst, steady damage is just as good if not better in some situation / comps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    - PVP demands great mobility. We do not have that.
    We get to choose between double sprint (with prep), shadow step and burst of speed.
    Burst of speed = 0 cd. Shadow step = 24 sec cd. Sprint = 60 sec cd.
    Fleet footed adds 15% speed passively.
    Plus, besides these we SLOW the opponent which is almost just as good.
    Shiv to apply 70% slow or just normal cripl. for 50% slow which is passively done.
    Glyph of deliberation adds a 50% slow on evi / env passively again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    - PVP demands great survivability. We do not have that.
    Immune to spells for 5 sec on a 2 min cd.
    Vanish on a 3 min cd which also breaks movement impairing effects.
    Smoke bomb on a 3 min cd.
    Sprint / Shadow step / Burst of speed (running = surviving).
    Evasion on a 3 min cd.
    Stuns / disorients to lock down enemy then run / reset.

    Now, if you use all of these abilities at once and put them on CD, sure, you're screwed. But if you roll through them one at a time (as much as possible) you have CDs ready all the time.

  6. #46
    Herald of the Titans Christan's Avatar
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    1. pvp power?
    2. did you stack expose armor? (takes a HUGE chunk off plate defense)
    3. wound poison?
    4. ???
    Still I cry, tears like pouring rain, Innocent is my lurid pain.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Degradation View Post
    No it does NOT demand hard burst, steady damage is just as good if not better in some situation / comps.
    Indeed, assuming your enemy is a target dummy and will stand still, with his back turned towards you, for the full duration of an Adrenaline Rush.

    We get to choose between double sprint (with prep), shadow step and burst of speed.
    Burst of speed = 0 cd. Shadow step = 24 sec cd. Sprint = 60 sec cd.
    Fleet footed adds 15% speed passively.
    Plus, besides these we SLOW the opponent which is almost just as good.
    Shiv to apply 70% slow or just normal cripl. for 50% slow which is passively done.
    Glyph of deliberation adds a 50% slow on evi / env passively again.
    - Prep won't be used to reset the cooldown on Sprint. It's far too valuable. Nevermind the fact that having two uses of a very mediocre mobility spell isn't that great anyway.
    - Burst of Speed, at current gear levels, has such an immensely high cost that you go from being neutralized by the enemy, to have been neutralized by yourself.
    - Are you seriously using Fleet Footed as an argument for mobility...?
    - Running Crippling is going to be sub-optimal due to the 4-piece bonus of the PVP set. Passively reducing movement speed by 50% is also done by several other classes. Wasting a major glyph to slow people is also not a viable choice.

    Immune to spells for 5 sec on a 2 min cd.
    Vanish on a 3 min cd which also breaks movement impairing effects.
    Smoke bomb on a 3 min cd.
    Sprint / Shadow step / Burst of speed (running = surviving).
    Evasion on a 3 min cd.
    Stuns / disorients to lock down enemy then run / reset.
    I see a bunch of incredibly long cooldowns, that might save you once, upon which you'll die.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Degradation View Post
    No it does NOT demand hard burst, steady damage is just as good if not better in some situation / comps.



    We get to choose between double sprint (with prep), shadow step and burst of speed.
    Burst of speed = 0 cd. Shadow step = 24 sec cd. Sprint = 60 sec cd.
    Fleet footed adds 15% speed passively.
    Plus, besides these we SLOW the opponent which is almost just as good.
    Shiv to apply 70% slow or just normal cripl. for 50% slow which is passively done.
    Glyph of deliberation adds a 50% slow on evi / env passively again.



    Immune to spells for 5 sec on a 2 min cd.
    Vanish on a 3 min cd which also breaks movement impairing effects.
    Smoke bomb on a 3 min cd.
    Sprint / Shadow step / Burst of speed (running = surviving).
    Evasion on a 3 min cd.
    Stuns / disorients to lock down enemy then run / reset.

    Now, if you use all of these abilities at once and put them on CD, sure, you're screwed. But if you roll through them one at a time (as much as possible) you have CDs ready all the time.
    Yeah try rotating CDs on you, im sure you are going to be fine. Oh wait you clearly dont arena in 3s. Players worse than me are doing better, players better than me say rogues are LOL and dont even want to include one in their team.

  9. #49
    so 4.3 reign of the rogue wasn't enough? I know plenty of rogues doing well atm
    Bane

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by roostah View Post
    i should have leveled my warr first =)
    haha my thoughts exactly, got my lock to 90, not impressed. got my kitty/bear to 90 and loving it. gonna stop levling my DK and hop on my warrior

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    Indeed, assuming your enemy is a target dummy and will stand still, with his back turned towards you, for the full duration of an Adrenaline Rush.
    Shadowplay says haii
    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Yak View Post
    Life Lesson #1 - People are terrible.

    Don't let it get to you. It'll only spoil your own personal enjoyment if you do.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by ironfists View Post
    so 4.3 reign of the rogue wasn't enough? I know plenty of rogues doing well atm
    Besides Ecliptium, can you show me those please?
    Shadow Walk : Significantly increases Stealth effectiveness for 6 sec, but causes Stealth to be nerfed to justify its usage. In addition, it uses old Enveloping Shadows icon and has no sound, animation or spell effect to show that the skill is actually doing something.

  13. #53
    So, after a week of raiding, and topping every meter (as combat) I have to say, PvEwise we are okay... once we get gear.

    But, oh lord, I don't wanna start about PvP.... but then again, if you are still doing PvP in WoW its your own fault. Try GW2 if you want a good experience.

  14. #54
    Have you some WoL and armory? Just to check my performances in comparison to yours and my gear vs your gear. Could be really useful for me.

    EDIT: i don't know if it's my fault, but armory updates take soooo long.
    Last edited by Coldkil; 2012-10-08 at 01:22 PM.

  15. #55
    Rogues are not bad I guess if your doing pve, but Iv hear that you will be lucky if you can out dps a tank.. Pvp just dont go there, every class will eat you and do /lol at the end

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Have you some WoL and armory? Just to check my performances in comparison to yours and my gear vs your gear. Could be really useful for me.

    EDIT: i don't know if it's my fault, but armory updates take soooo long.
    we didn't make a log, sadly and compared to the WoL stats I'm only in the top 100 rogues I guess. Our raid hasn't got the strongest DPS and we are even missing a buff or two sometimes. :/ Tried Elegon today, and there I had to struggle to keep place 1-2 as combat. Also we are 10m raid.

    But here's my armory

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lendris/simple

    I'm going for Assa if I get a dagger... :x never had luck with that. But on the other side, Elegon seems to favour combat because of the strong burst skills.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vespera View Post
    Rogues are not bad I guess if your doing pve, but Iv hear that you will be lucky if you can out dps a tank.. Pvp just dont go there, every class will eat you and do /lol at the end
    Tanks don't do much damage in raids. Only in 5mans. But only on 4+ mob pulls where they can AoE. If you got an AR or KS ready for that, you will outperform them still easily.
    Last edited by Bluegirl91; 2012-10-09 at 04:08 AM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegirl91 View Post
    Tanks don't do much damage in raids. Only in 5mans. But only on 4+ mob pulls where they can AoE. If you got an AR or KS ready for that, you will outperform them still easily.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...an_Vaults/dps/

    They do lots of dmg everywhere now.

  18. #58
    I think combat is better for 1v1 but don't quote that. If you can find that warrior again see if he'll do that bet again, go combat then get him down to second wind and pop all cools with killing spree, should destroy him.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegirl91 View Post

    But here's my armory

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lendris/simple

    I'm going for Assa if I get a dagger... :x never had luck with that. But on the other side, Elegon seems to favour combat because of the strong burst skills.
    LOL, you've a lot of epics :P I didn't have luck, i never dropped a weapon apart the fist i have - no daggers and only yesterday evening i dropped a trinket (i had too run with a green one). No wonder you're doing much better than me

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...an_Vaults/dps/

    They do lots of dmg everywhere now.
    Only because of broken Vengeance mechanics when they are allowed to take too much damage. On "normal" fights they don't. Dunno why blizzard did this, but it seems really broken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    LOL, you've a lot of epics :P I didn't have luck, i never dropped a weapon apart the fist i have - no daggers and only yesterday evening i dropped a trinket (i had too run with a green one). No wonder you're doing much better than me
    Yeah its more than ever a question of gear. I've got the second best gear on the realm or so :X but was just lucky with drops.
    Only saw the first 5 bosses this far, and I think Combat or Assa is the way to go. First, third and fifth boss has some cleave opportunities and you can utilize the strong and short CDs of combat very good on every boss. Of course assa will do a bit more on singletarget overall.
    Didn't check sub, but as far as I'm concerned the spec is more or less dead

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