Poll: What do you think of heroic dungeon difficulty?

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  1. #621
    Well we got in to our first LFD heroic guild group thanks to our random direbrew trinkets that we werent using but had to equip to get in (I had 1 tank and 1 intelect on my dps warr), then we cleared it without issue in half questing/lvl85 gear. Too easy yes, easier than wrath heroics definitely. But since there are challenge modes I dont think it really matters all that much.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  2. #622
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Read their blog about rep they mention the dungeons at one point.

    we feel dungeons are already rewarding
    You've got to be fucking kidding me. REWARDING? This has been by far the least rewarding dungeon experience I've ever had in the game. It's not rewarding from a challenge aspect. It's not even rewarding from a gear aspect. You've got to be kidding me.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  3. #623
    Titan Arbs's Avatar
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    Blizzard said they would be easy, the real challenge is Challenge modes. Which they stated in many blue posts.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 03:21 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Skizo View Post
    So the only content meant to be even remotely challenging is the absolute top-end content?
    That's embarassing
    No it isn't cause WoW is always been about end-game.
    I don't always hunt things, But when I do, It's because they're things & I'm a Bear.


  4. #624
    Blizzard said they would be easy, the real challenge is Challenge modes. Which they stated in many blue posts.
    I am not asking for challenge. I am asking them not to be so easy that Tanks job is to DPS and healers job is to AFK.

  5. #625
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    It's probably been said but: Heroics never had the same intention they had in Cataclysm and BC. They are basically slightly more difficult then the 90 Dungeons would be if they existed. (Normal Shattered Halls equiv)

  6. #626
    Pandaren Monk Darkis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollerTH View Post
    Vanilla was tedious.
    TBC release heroics where crazy hard. Some of them where worse than raids before they got nerfed. After nerfs they ranged from /faceroll to /wrist.
    Wotlk heroics where a joke but I never felt the need to punch any terrible players in the face. I just laughed at them.
    Cata heroics where ease if and only if everyone understood each boss and did their job. Far to many bosses had one hit mechanics.

    Mop going back to something similar to Wotlk is great. Also love the challenge modes for those of us that might actually want to run a 5 man that is hard.
    This. While difficulty is laughable, it allows to carry the most exceptional mouthbreathers without wanting to bash their heads in.

  7. #627
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Archdruid Dehydrate View Post
    Blizzard said they would be easy, the real challenge is Challenge modes. Which they stated in many blue posts.
    Why can't we have a challenge and progression at 5-man? Wooo challenge mode, where I get the appropriate challenge I want, but then all i get is a new colour armour that I have to PAY to transmog onto something else. Doesn't help me gain better gear for anything else, improve my ilvl, or anything. So if I don't have the time to invest in playing the game like "hardcore players" I get abused on forums for doing "easy mode" LFR, or I get to sit in my heroic blues, but maybe, just maybe.. I can be good enough to have a different colour skin on them.
    Not all of us care about waving our epeen around SW. We just want to feel that we are improving our characters.
    Gear reskins, is not a good reward for anything but epeen waving.

  8. #628
    Quote Originally Posted by gingersenshi View Post
    Why can't we have a challenge and progression at 5-man?
    Because when Blizzard tried that, it cost them hundreds of millions of dollars. This is a dead simple proposition; try to understand it.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  9. #629
    Quote Originally Posted by gingersenshi View Post
    Why can't we have a challenge and progression at 5-man? Wooo challenge mode, where I get the appropriate challenge I want, but then all i get is a new colour armour that I have to PAY to transmog onto something else. Doesn't help me gain better gear for anything else, improve my ilvl, or anything. So if I don't have the time to invest in playing the game like "hardcore players" I get abused on forums for doing "easy mode" LFR, or I get to sit in my heroic blues, but maybe, just maybe.. I can be good enough to have a different colour skin on them.
    Not all of us care about waving our epeen around SW. We just want to feel that we are improving our characters.
    Gear reskins, is not a good reward for anything but epeen waving.
    100% Agree!

    This whole system where progression dungeons are easy , and dungeons where you can't get upgrades and which cannot be outgeared are challenging. It makes me wonder : Don't people actually like upgrading their characters anymore?
    I don't feel like it's any fun to upgrade my character if I don't have any need of doing that. There is no "Hey you remember when it took forever for us to kill these mobs? " or.. "you remember when these mobs used to 2shot the tank , haha? " .. It feels like you are simply raising the stat numbers. Has the need of having really powerful character gone over the true feeling of getting improvements that you actually need ?

    And also this Challenge mode system. I don't really get it at all. Is the epeen raising so fun? To show others: "Look at my gear noobs, I have done some challenging content " . I don't care how others see my gear. I just want to feel myself how my character is getting upgraded. WoW had always been game like this. But to get that I have to be in a part of raiding guild these days.

    When I was last time arguing with someone about challenge mode system someone just answered " So it's just about gear! I knew it" .. I mean, he was right. But what is the bad thing in it? Why shouldn't I want to get better gear?

  10. #630
    Deleted
    why do you whiners even fucking care about 5-mans dungeons?
    its known that almost everyone runs HC with the LFD tool and its proven that random groups collapse when facing hard content.
    thats just how shit goes random group of strangers + hard content = NOT OK
    Heroics are PERFECT like they are,want some hard content?go challenge modes

  11. #631
    Deleted
    Try Scarlet halls challenge modes. The damage on some of those trash packs man.... my god...

  12. #632
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by ZRebellion View Post
    why do you whiners even fucking care about 5-mans dungeons?
    its known that almost everyone runs HC with the LFD tool and its proven that random groups collapse when facing hard content.
    thats just how shit goes random group of strangers + hard content = NOT OK
    Heroics are PERFECT like they are,want some hard content?go challenge modes
    Just didn't bother reading the last page did you.
    Yes challenge modes are fine, but why can we not get upgrades from it?
    are we not allowed challenging content and character progression for those of use who can't commit to a raid schedule?

    oh it's ok, you're in yellow armour.. mines red cos im 1337 haxor pro.
    not going to help me kill daily quests mobs any quicker.

    Cosmetic rewards mean nothing, they do not help my character improve in any way.

  13. #633
    Quote Originally Posted by gingersenshi View Post
    Just didn't bother reading the last page did you.
    Yes challenge modes are fine, but why can we not get upgrades from it?
    Because that would either make raids be too easy, or it would place raids out of reach of too many people.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  14. #634
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Matson View Post
    100% Agree!

    This whole system where progression dungeons are easy , and dungeons where you can't get upgrades and which cannot be outgeared are challenging. It makes me wonder : Don't people actually like upgrading their characters anymore?
    I don't feel like it's any fun to upgrade my character if I don't have any need of doing that. There is no "Hey you remember when it took forever for us to kill these mobs? " or.. "you remember when these mobs used to 2shot the tank , haha? " .. It feels like you are simply raising the stat numbers. Has the need of having really powerful character gone over the true feeling of getting improvements that you actually need ?

    And also this Challenge mode system. I don't really get it at all. Is the epeen raising so fun? To show others: "Look at my gear noobs, I have done some challenging content " . I don't care how others see my gear. I just want to feel myself how my character is getting upgraded. WoW had always been game like this. But to get that I have to be in a part of raiding guild these days.

    When I was last time arguing with someone about challenge mode system someone just answered " So it's just about gear! I knew it" .. I mean, he was right. But what is the bad thing in it? Why shouldn't I want to get better gear?
    wow what an absolute hypocrite,stop mirroring your terrible morals onto other people,its not because you think gear is important so you can act like ''oh look at my big numbers noobs'' that everyone only thinks of the rewards like you.
    It's not because challenge modes reward transmog gear that everyone only runs them for that sole purpose.
    Do you even have any idea why Blizz bothered to put up leaderboards?It's so players can show off their times,not their shiny gear.
    Anyway good job for not understanding a thing about competitive content and acting like a hypocritical fuck,its ok for you to attach importance to your characters dps numbers but not for someone else to attach importance to their gear?well learn how to respect others and maybe then one day you'll look for challenging content somewhere else then a fucking 5-man heroic dungeon

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 11:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by gingersenshi View Post
    Just didn't bother reading the last page did you.
    Yes challenge modes are fine, but why can we not get upgrades from it?
    are we not allowed challenging content and character progression for those of use who can't commit to a raid schedule?

    oh it's ok, you're in yellow armour.. mines red cos im 1337 haxor pro.
    not going to help me kill daily quests mobs any quicker.

    Cosmetic rewards mean nothing, they do not help my character improve in any way.
    Why?Why?Why?...Because.
    Why can't questing be super hard for people who only do leveling and no max level content,so they can do challenging content and at the same progress their character?
    Why doesn't level 10-14 PvP reward PvP gear for those who do not have time for high level PvP?
    Because,you want gear and hard content?go raid or too bad.
    It's not like you can progress your characters' times and actually take a chance at making world rank 1 times but oh no if its not gear its nothing.....
    Last edited by mmocba4f7a59a4; 2012-10-06 at 11:23 PM.

  15. #635
    Why not yes or no? You're limiting our choices with something too specific. Of course it's not perfect, but it was a lot better than the previous expansion. Doing something hard with complete strangers that tend to derp around wasn't really fun.
    My General Gaming Blog *Latest Updated: 9/25/14*

  16. #636
    wow what an absolute hypocrite,stop mirroring your terrible morals onto other people,its not because you think gear is important so you can act like ''oh look at my big numbers noobs'' that everyone only thinks of the rewards like you.
    It's not because challenge modes reward transmog gear that everyone only runs them for that sole purpose.
    Do you even have any idea why Blizz bothered to put up leaderboards?It's so players can show off their times,not their shiny gear.
    Anyway good job for not understanding a thing about competitive content and acting like a hypocritical fuck,its ok for you to attach importance to your characters dps numbers but not for someone else to attach importance to their gear?well learn how to respect others and maybe then one day you'll look for challenging content somewhere else then a fucking 5-man heroic dungeon
    Wow. I really didn't mean to make anyone THIS angry :O Sorry bout that. But yeah. While I don't get this sentence: " so you can act like ''oh look at my big numbers noobs'' that everyone only thinks of the rewards like you." I do admit gearing is important for me. I find it much funnier to gear up my tank when the mobs actually deal damage. What's the point of improving your character when the character is already overpowered against the mobs? I was just wondering if anyone else feels the same.

    I like the idea of challenge modes as an extra content because of the leaderboards But I just don't like the idea of them being solution for 5 man dungeons being too easy overall.
    About the challenge mode gear drops. I remember Blizzard saying: "Challenge modes reward you with transmog gear so other players can see you having succesfully completed them. " or something. This made me think that it's so important for players nowadays to raise their epeen with gear that others can't get.

    I do respect other players and I do understand it's frustrating for some players to have situations that they find as a roadblock that they cannot overcome. But I honestly don't believe I am the only player who finds it frustrating that all the cool new zones, whole leveling and all the new dungeons have their atmosphere ruined by the same second you step into them because you notice how things feel bugged easy. The feeling is something you cannot erase from your memory. If I want to have something that has difficulty in it as a casual player, my WHOLE content is challenge modes. This feels pretty god damn wrong.
    Last edited by Matson; 2012-10-07 at 12:32 AM.

  17. #637
    Quote Originally Posted by gingersenshi View Post
    Just didn't bother reading the last page did you.
    Yes challenge modes are fine, but why can we not get upgrades from it?
    are we not allowed challenging content and character progression for those of use who can't commit to a raid schedule?

    oh it's ok, you're in yellow armour.. mines red cos im 1337 haxor pro.
    not going to help me kill daily quests mobs any quicker.

    Cosmetic rewards mean nothing, they do not help my character improve in any way.
    Because it's probably a false fantasy that ultimately won't happen. And the relatively select few people who would utilize would be few and far between. It is a wonderful fantasy, but it just isn't worth it. While they could just throw the loot tables on to challenge modes as they are now (I think it'd be an interesting experiement though Blizzard might've tried this out already internally during beta) I think the design is to not clutter the experience where the stopwatch is the real enemy.

    People usually lean towards getting X the quickest, most efficient route. When all you get are some blues to help you get in to raiding, most people will just do random heroics. Between doing dailies, profession grinding and all the other stuff the expansion has, I think less people are interested in spending 3 hours in a dungeon where they might not even get anything but repair bills.
    Again, it is a wonderful fantasy. But after a couple of days of doing dungeons, fond memories aside, you will want to just get your shit done and at that point gearing through challenge modes will become extremely unappealing.

    And then you'll have the people who realize this and then demand a special Challenge Mode ilvl of blues.

  18. #638
    I am Murloc! Conscious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halaberiel View Post
    Try Scarlet halls challenge modes. The damage on some of those trash packs man.... my god...
    Reminds of TBC.

    Still, it's not too bad. Just got to actually give a shit, that's a 1/3rd of the battle right there.

  19. #639
    Quote Originally Posted by Shon237 View Post
    [...]What is normal then?[...]
    Leveling content. There are no 90 normals.

  20. #640
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by ZRebellion View Post
    wow what an absolute hypocrite,stop mirroring your terrible morals onto other people,its not because you think gear is important so you can act like ''oh look at my big numbers noobs'' that everyone only thinks of the rewards like you.
    It's not because challenge modes reward transmog gear that everyone only runs them for that sole purpose.
    Do you even have any idea why Blizz bothered to put up leaderboards?It's so players can show off their times,not their shiny gear.
    Anyway good job for not understanding a thing about competitive content and acting like a hypocritical fuck,its ok for you to attach importance to your characters dps numbers but not for someone else to attach importance to their gear?well learn how to respect others and maybe then one day you'll look for challenging content somewhere else then a fucking 5-man heroic dungeon

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 11:22 PM ----------



    Why?Why?Why?...Because.
    Why can't questing be super hard for people who only do leveling and no max level content,so they can do challenging content and at the same progress their character?
    Why doesn't level 10-14 PvP reward PvP gear for those who do not have time for high level PvP?
    Because,you want gear and hard content?go raid or too bad.
    It's not like you can progress your characters' times and actually take a chance at making world rank 1 times but oh no if its not gear its nothing.....
    How does being number 1 on a leaderboard I've never looked at help my character in anyway?
    Does it allow me to kill stuff quicker? no
    Does it allow me to survive longer? no

    Some of us don't play the game for the epeen waving around the mailbox in ironforge.
    Challenge modes are going to come down to cookie cutter classes and setups once they're all figured out anyway, and since gear doesn't play a part in it,
    if you're not a lvl 90 *insert class here* go home.

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