Thread: Elegon...

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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    Isn't that the standard now, if you don't kill it in 5 pulls it's hard?

    I also wonder if the people that say it's too hard even have the best gear they can get. Is it really that horrible it takes a little longer to clear because of a gear (dps) check?

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-04 at 07:36 AM ----------



    Wow 40 min, I see you really tried.

    I guess expectations are only going up. First everyone can clear normal in a month and now people complain when they can't clear it in one day.
    What do you mean 'the best gear you can get'? You can't even get all of that gear yet. It should be balanced around 463 since it's an entry level raid. I'm fine with a hard fight if it's based on mechanics but making it hard because 'derp u need moar geer, go farmz first bosses for three weeks' is just bad design (see Diablo 3 Inferno on release). Now, I will say it loud and make it clear, I have not done the fight, this is based off of what I am hearing from people who have done the fight. So, the word around is that the fight feels like it is tuned a bit too high right now, especially for 463 gear.

    As for your sarcastic remark to the second person: would you really want to keep the raid going if your raid was wiping on trash for almost an hour? There's obviously a gear issue or a player attention issue going on there, there would be no point in pushing it any longer when you realize that you're not getting anywhere. Doesn't help that the pulls before Stone Guards make no real sense (talking about the two large ones that petrify, our guess was pull one and burn but that doesn't make much sense considering how it's laid out).

  2. #42
    We can't kill a boss on first night we enter a raid instance, must be overtuned!!!! Guess you never did M'uru.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Cairhiin View Post
    We can't kill a boss on first night we enter a raid instance, must be overtuned!!!! Guess you never did M'uru.
    90% of the playerbase never even cleared Sunwell

    EDIT: Let me rephrase that. 90% of the playerbase never even tried Sunwell
    Last edited by Theprejudice; 2012-10-04 at 08:14 AM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Pengalor View Post
    What do you mean 'the best gear you can get'? You can't even get all of that gear yet. It should be balanced around 463 since it's an entry level raid. I'm fine with a hard fight if it's based on mechanics but making it hard because 'derp u need moar geer, go farmz first bosses for three weeks' is just bad design (see Diablo 3 Inferno on release). Now, I will say it loud and make it clear, I have not done the fight, this is based off of what I am hearing from people who have done the fight. So, the word around is that the fight feels like it is tuned a bit too high right now, especially for 463 gear.

    As for your sarcastic remark to the second person: would you really want to keep the raid going if your raid was wiping on trash for almost an hour? There's obviously a gear issue or a player attention issue going on there, there would be no point in pushing it any longer when you realize that you're not getting anywhere. Doesn't help that the pulls before Stone Guards make no real sense (talking about the two large ones that petrify, our guess was pull one and burn but that doesn't make much sense considering how it's laid out).
    I don't mean you have to farm the first three bosses. I mean I bet there are still people out there who are not bothered to get all the heroic gear and enchants and buffs because they are "casual" players.
    From my experience there are more than enough players in this community who are not bothered to really work for it. If you are not bothered to do a few more heroics to get one or two pieces of gear then you shouldn't complain about a dps check on the first evening the raid gets released.

    So, you are going to quit? And then what, you are going to wipe again the next time? You have to learn sometime. If you give up after half an hour then you will never learn.
    If the problem is gear issues (which I really doubt on trash) or player attention or not enough experience then why come here to complain about it without telling the reason why you are wiping? If he doesn't say why they are wiping then I assume he is just complaining about the mobs being too strong.

    It's just really sad that people complain after one evening because they can't kill something. Just improve you gear or tactics and try it again the next day or is that already too much to ask for? I guess everyone has to clear whole raids in one day now. Just wait for LFR is this is already too much for you.

    p.s. I haven't tried the boss but I wouldn't start complaining after one evening of wipes on him. It's really pathetic.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-04 at 08:46 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Theprejudice View Post
    90% of the playerbase never even cleared Sunwell

    EDIT: Let me rephrase that. 90% of the playerbase never even tried Sunwell
    90% of the playerbase hasn't tried Elegon.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    90% of the playerbase hasn't tried Elegon.
    806 guilds have cleared up to him already and he's not even the end boss of the raid, so this is about as dumb as the difficulty for heroic council in tier11 compared to the end wing bosses.
    Sunwell was a high entry raid aimed at the highest raiding of guilds and there were so many barriers in terms of gear acquirement and attunements for new raiders.
    Palace is an entry raid in a completely new expansion and is aimed and should be tuned for dungeon heroic gear, and allow a dps check without having a flawless rotation and having to favor certain setups. Why? because it's normal mode.

    Why is having a steep dps check laughable this early in the content? Because there's hardly any gear to grab your hands on

  6. #46
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    I was watching scrubbusters down him on their alts last night. seemed pretty easy.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Theprejudice View Post
    806 guilds have cleared up to him already and he's not even the end boss of the raid, so this is about as dumb as the difficulty for heroic council in tier11 compared to the end wing bosses.
    Sunwell was a high entry raid aimed at the highest raiding of guilds and there were so many barriers in terms of gear acquirement and attunements for new raiders.
    Palace is an entry raid in a completely new expansion and is aimed and should be tuned for dungeon heroic gear, and allow a dps check without having a flawless rotation and having to favor certain setups. Why? because it's normal mode.

    Why is having a steep dps check laughable this early in the content? Because there's hardly any gear to grab your hands on
    Cho'gal on both difficulties was harder than Council, however, you didn't need to kill Council on heroic which only dropped subpar loot to progress to HC Cho'gal whose heroic mode was required to enter Sinestra, the hard-mode only boss that everyone aimed for who was also easier than Cho'gal HC

  8. #48
    Can't kill a boss after 5 pulls on the first day it's released wearing gear 15 ilvls lower than intended

    TOO HARD, CRY ON ALL THE FORUMS FOR A NERF


    Sad how far this game's community has fallen...
    Quote Originally Posted by Seahippo View Post
    We are gunna use some dust brown to paint some happy little tornados here, and one more here. Then we are going to use some white to paint happy little wind blasts here. Just dab the brush along the base of al akir, and there you have it. THE GAYEST FIGHT EVER

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciah View Post
    Can't kill a boss after 5 pulls on the first day it's released wearing gear 15 ilvls lower than intended

    TOO HARD, CRY ON ALL THE FORUMS FOR A NERF


    Sad how far this game's community has fallen...
    It's intended for 464 so i don't know why you think it's tuned for ilvl that is 15 higher because it isn't. It's perfectly fine to kill a boss after 5 attempts when you know how the fight works, why? It's freaking normal.

    Want steep requirements and hard challenges that requires coordinated awesomeness and outstanding gameplay? I'd love to and that is why we have heroic modes.

  10. #50
    Do I really see people whinning about content that is 1-2 days old? Be glad you actually have something to do, if you still find raiding worth it.

    Get 1-2 valor items, full 5 man (Especially the trinkets from 5 mans are pretty nice, are for me as a feral druid anyway) gear, and enchant/gem it all up, and then come back on Monday/Sunday, if you didnt make it before.

    Edit: all LW in you're guild should be getting BOE's aswell, and kill Sha abit easy gearing. Can fast be Ilvl 470 now.
    One reason for WoW decline I often hear is that its an old game and naturally people get bored with it. But TV is much older and people still watch that. Surely if a thing you once enjoyed keept staying fun, you would still use it?

  11. #51
    Holy shit, I'm usually the last person to bash on the "it's too hard" crowd, but seriously? No. Seriously?! It's too hard if my guild can't kill it the first night in there?

    I'd like to make this post constructive, but seriously?

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Theprejudice View Post
    It's intended for 464 so i don't know why you think it's tuned for ilvl that is 15 higher because it isn't. It's perfectly fine to kill a boss after 5 attempts when you know how the fight works, why? It's freaking normal.

    Want steep requirements and hard challenges that requires coordinated awesomeness and outstanding gameplay? I'd love to and that is why we have heroic modes.
    It's doable in 464. Guilds have already killed this boss with a bunch of ALTS in the raid. Most players will need more than 1 night to learn the execution, that's all. Not to mention you probably still have some raiders in slacker 440 itemlevel or without proper enchants and gems.

    Want low requirements and zero challenges that require just turning up with underprepared characters and killing everything with a minimal amount of wiping? That is why we have LFR difficulty. Apart from Dragon Soul (and Naxx10!), normal mode raids have always been this difficulty or harder at launch.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by laserguns View Post
    It's doable in 464. Guilds have already killed this boss with a bunch of ALTS in the raid. Most players will need more than 1 night to learn the execution, that's all. Not to mention you probably still have some raiders in slacker 440 itemlevel or without proper enchants and gems.

    Want low requirements and zero challenges that require just turning up with underprepared characters and killing everything with a minimal amount of wiping? That is why we have LFR difficulty. Apart from Dragon Soul (and Naxx10!), normal mode raids have always been this difficulty or harder at launch.
    Again, this is normal mode. We have to bench people in my guild to do it proper and you know why? Because the requirement is brutal and it's a horrible fight for melee.
    That's not raiding, that's not how normal mode is. This is the definition of heroic where you need to cover every aspect and often have to class stack for favorable classes.

    I guarantee you that they're gonna nerf the HP and it's because they will simply look at their data and see that practically everyone is at a halt
    Last edited by Theprejudice; 2012-10-04 at 10:28 AM.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Theprejudice View Post
    Again, this is normal mode. We have to bench people in my guild to do it proper and you know why? Because the requirement is brutal and it's a horrible fight for melee.
    That's not raiding, that's not how normal mode is. This is the definition of heroic where you need to cover every aspect and often have to class stack for favorable classes.

    I guarantee you that they're gonna nerf the HP and it's because they will simply look at their data and see that practically everyone is at a halt
    One night. The raid has been open for one night in Europe, and two nights in the US. The amount of time guilds have spent on this boss is incredibly low.

    Your "It's perfectly fine to kill a boss after 5 attempts when you know how the fight works" attitude is kind of arrogant. Just because you have read the mechanics on dungeon journal it doesn't mean you have the perfect strategy for the boss nailed. It's a fight where your dps is split across different targets and it's obviously going take trial and error for most guilds to find which approach gives them the best DPS output. More than 1 night.

    Normals *are* usually hard. At the start of Cataclysm most guilds couldn't kill Nefarian for ages. Even Icecrown Citadel, which is not regarded as a difficult raid, and was gated so gave people time to gear up, had a few brutal fights on normal with 0% debuff and rubbish gear. Ulduar was proper hard, I remember XT got nerfed about 7 times.
    Last edited by laserguns; 2012-10-04 at 10:46 AM.

  15. #55
    people who reached Elegon first night, failed on him and asking for nerfs :
    Does that mean that the previous 4 bosses you one shot were under tuned ? Should Blizz buff those ones then?

    Seriously guys, learn to spend 2 weeks wiping, THEN make a post.

  16. #56
    I look forward to wiping for hours on this boss
    Feels much better to kill him after that.
    Trylb / Galesin
    Winners never quit, Quitters never win
    Nobody Said It Was Easy

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by laserguns View Post
    Ultraxion normal had a dps check when it was first launched, so did Maloriak and a few others. You can 1) Play better 2) Gear up more 3) Wait for the inevitable nerf

    I think the quality of the playerbase has declined, half the guilds probably haven't realised you're supposed to face the boss away from the raid yet.
    maybe you missed the part where I said we beat the enrage by 19 seconds and killed it?

    Ultraxion dps requirment was non existant on normal, you could probably easily beat it in tier 11 gear.

    I am just saying Elegon is not tuned properly for a NORMAL mode.

  18. #58
    I think people definitely keep forgeting the gear scaling when looking at the fight and also (other thread in here) how those fights are compared to T11.

    T11 went from 346 to 359, a gear difference of about 10% in terms of stats, weapon dps and so on.
    T14 however DOES indeed have the LFR as that step, the normal raids are yet another 10% higher.
    463 -> 476 -> 489.

    Blizzard said they don't want to make LFR mandatory for progression, hence why T14 is PROBABLY easier tuned than T11 BUT indeed has LFR as the stepping stone from 5man hc to normal mode raids.
    That's also exactly what they said, that LFR is now a stepping stone into raiding, that LFR will be harder in MoP than it was in cata.

    So actually beating the normal modes now, will give you gear 10% more powerful than what you normaly would have gotten (compared to older raids), thus nerfing the encounters pretty quickly.
    Once LFR is available and the gear comes in they will be significantly easier.

    People got it down already, some even beating the enrage by quite a bit, while actually missing up to 10% raid DPS.
    Now think of a 10% nerf to Elegon and the other bosses, already sounds much more feasible right?

    LFR is not supposed to be mandatory (which it ain't obviously) but is where you should look at for having an idea about what item lvl the normals are tuned for.

  19. #59
    Yep, good point Yoshitsuna. I was like "wtf'" when looking over Ilvl from the HM in a HM boss (Think Sinestra, but Council boss I think?) and seing Ilvl 516 drop from it...first tier, and already Ilvl 516 from the hardest.

    Big jump in Ilvl.
    One reason for WoW decline I often hear is that its an old game and naturally people get bored with it. But TV is much older and people still watch that. Surely if a thing you once enjoyed keept staying fun, you would still use it?

  20. #60
    Most of serious guilds are farming trash and are simulating their Hard mode strats...

    So much people who don't even understand what Hardcore means.... Who cares about normal mode... ?
    GC : We try very hard not to monkey around with things just for the sake of changing, but it's easy to play the "I didn't see feedback on X, therefore there wasn't feedback on X" card.

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