Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    Rogue Talent Tiers need to be redesigned

    It must be done because they make no sense and it shows how little effort they put during this expansion with the rogue class.

    Look at Mages :

    Tier 1 : About moving when casting.
    Tier 2 : Survival.
    Tier 3 : Freezing Control.
    Tier 4 : Thematical Survival.
    Tier 5 : AoE
    Tier 6: Damage/Mana

    It's all clear and clean.

    Now look at ours :

    Tier 1 : Stealth (Good one, it's how it should be)
    Tier 2 : Two old skills as talents to reduce enemy damage plus...Deadly Throw? What is it doing here?
    Tier 3 : Survival(?) consisting in a poison (poisons should have own tier) and a spammable 30% damage reduction over Feint.
    Tier 4 : Some kind of an attempt to a mobility tier which consisted on stripping the subtlety spec of its grandeur in order to make all three specs equally immobile.
    Tier 5 : Control tier. Not so bad, but again a poison here which means that we're the only class, as far I know, that can negate a talent by picking another. Warlocks got a fix in regards to this.
    Tier 6 : Rule breaker (?). All this should be baseline somehow.


    It's way too random.

    I'd suggest something like :

    Tier 1 : Stealth.
    Tier 2 : Mobility.
    Tier 3 : Poisons.
    Tier 4 : Control.
    Tier 5 : Survivability.
    Tier 6 : Flavour cool stuff.
    Shadow Walk : Significantly increases Stealth effectiveness for 6 sec, but causes Stealth to be nerfed to justify its usage. In addition, it uses old Enveloping Shadows icon and has no sound, animation or spell effect to show that the skill is actually doing something.

  2. #2
    they need to give us some usefull passives -.-
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  3. #3
    i rlly think anticipation should be coupled with some other amazing talents and i mean really really amazing otherwise there is no choice no choice at all ...
    GEtting 2 CP isnt that easy usually its 4-6 so to be optimal and not waste such a important resource i think there is rlly think anticipation is a no brainer here :|

  4. #4
    Not to mention from what I've seen Anticipation doesn't work with Shadow Blades...a silly design.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Avengerx View Post
    Not to mention from what I've seen Anticipation doesn't work with Shadow Blades...a silly design.
    It definitely does, whether you get the extra combo point as Assassination on a crit (Seal Fate) is something I didn't quite figure out yet. What I do is pop Shadow Blades after I have some energy and got both Slice and Dice and Rupture rolling. After that I Mutilate till 5+ combo points, Envenom, and then continue generating combo points past 5 because I have everything rolling anyway. This allows me to use another 5 combo point Envenom and refresh Rupture the moment either runs out.

    tl;dr
    It definitely does work, and I've been engineering my 'rotation' to make use of that.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Predator and Aether.

  6. #6
    I'm pretty sure we were crying for changes during beta as well. Didn't help then, won't help now.

  7. #7
    The Patient Linneth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    326
    Since they released the lvl 90 tier talents, I couldn't figure why they didn't make Versatility something similar to "Passive. Combo Points stack on the Rouge instead of the target. Replaces Redirect". Anticipation should be a second set of Combo Points stacking on the rogue, without silly buffs (it should have no duration with a decay if out of combat) with duration or requiring an offensive finisher (it should proc from any). Think about Holy Power, they have 5 points of Holy Power but they can only use up to 3 of them on a "finisher".

    Of course, my suggestions would force Blizzard to spend more than 1 minute designing Rogue mechanics, so...

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Linneth View Post
    Of course, my suggestions would force Blizzard to spend more than 1 minute designing Rogue mechanics, so...
    We can't have that!

    But I agree, having prep and step in the same tier after they increased rogue cooldowns on its own is a terrible joke. There is no other class that has to make a decision like that.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Linneth View Post
    Since they released the lvl 90 tier talents, I couldn't figure why they didn't make Versatility something similar to "Passive. Combo Points stack on the Rouge instead of the target. Replaces Redirect". Anticipation should be a second set of Combo Points stacking on the rogue, without silly buffs (it should have no duration with a decay if out of combat) with duration or requiring an offensive finisher (it should proc from any). Think about Holy Power, they have 5 points of Holy Power but they can only use up to 3 of them on a "finisher".

    Of course, my suggestions would force Blizzard to spend more than 1 minute designing Rogue mechanics, so...
    I've been wondering about that myself. "Lazy design" is often considered a "cop-out"-argument, but it's just the only thing I can think of when I look at those talents.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    It definitely does, whether you get the extra combo point as Assassination on a crit (Seal Fate) is something I didn't quite figure out yet. What I do is pop Shadow Blades after I have some energy and got both Slice and Dice and Rupture rolling. After that I Mutilate till 5+ combo points, Envenom, and then continue generating combo points past 5 because I have everything rolling anyway. This allows me to use another 5 combo point Envenom and refresh Rupture the moment either runs out.

    tl;dr
    It definitely does work, and I've been engineering my 'rotation' to make use of that.
    Thanks for the reply, I'll check it out tonight then. Might have been that I jsut spammed ss too much under Ad+Sb and somehow messed up the cp count there

  11. #11
    The level 90 tier needs to be stuff that makes you go "wow I actually can't wait to level up to 90 and play rogue!" like every other class has. It couldn't be more obvious that blizzard spent 30minutes thinking of ways to nerf the class and then another 10 minutes thinking of dumb new talents.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    I'm pretty sure we were crying for changes during beta as well. Didn't help then, won't help now.
    Pretty much exactly this. Rogues made tons of suggestions, complaints, ideas, etc...some good, some bad. We got all but ignored. So I'm just going to assume that this is what we are til 5.2 at the earliest.

  13. #13
    Versatility should definitely be "combo points on the rogue". The issue is that this would require having two technical backends for combo points, and at that point they WOULD make it baseline :P

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Versatility should definitely be "combo points on the rogue". The issue is that this would require having two technical backends for combo points, and at that point they WOULD make it baseline :P
    isnt redirect with no cd basically this, but with a keypress?

    Not very exciting I grant you.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by malkatron View Post
    isnt redirect with no cd basically this, but with a keypress?

    Not very exciting I grant you.
    Yes, that is the intent design of the talent. However, it just doesn't line up with Anticipation as far as usefulness is concerned. Anticipation allows you to almost never waste any CPs, as well as increasing your burst damage substantially. Versatility only does one thing, and that thing is unfortunately nowhere nearly as useful as Anticipation. Hell Shuriken Toss is more useful than Versatility. There would have to be soooo much target switching on a fight to make it worth taking over Anticipation or even Shuriken Toss. PvE speaking this should be how things end up with you having to take Versatility for one fight in a patch. PvP is another matter as it does provide some decent utility, but Anticipation still wins out because of the large burst increase.

  16. #16
    The Patient Linneth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    326
    Quote Originally Posted by malkatron View Post
    isnt redirect with no cd basically this, but with a keypress?

    Not very exciting I grant you.
    Yeah, it's basically the same thing but done the easy and lazy way; it's clunky to use and almost impossible to do on fast-dying AoE targets (this brings another issue with FoK not giving combo points if there's any point on the previous target). The talent should make combo points like monk's Chi, where the only difference would be that combo points increase finisher damage/duration while Chi works at a fixed amount of points per skill.

  17. #17
    I might be talking out my ass here, but maybe the reason we don't get Combo points stacking on us is because Feral Druids will get pretty upset about them not having it too, forcing them to work on Cats as well?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Wynn View Post
    I might be talking out my ass here, but maybe the reason we don't get Combo points stacking on us is because Feral Druids will get pretty upset about them not having it too, forcing them to work on Cats as well?
    ...and why would that be a problem? Combo points on targets is a massive pain in the ass for us. I'd imagine it's no different for Cats. They don't even have Redirect, do they? That's sad enough.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    ...and why would that be a problem? Combo points on targets is a massive pain in the ass for us. I'd imagine it's no different for Cats. They don't even have Redirect, do they? That's sad enough.
    I might be wrong again (I've not played a druid since 5.0) but I'm fairly confident that Swipe doesn't generate combo points and is used for AoE situations. Maybe we need a move more like that?

  20. #20
    Dreadlord Jawless Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    The last place you look
    Posts
    963
    i wouldnt compare rogue talents to mage tier 6 ones, alot of mages hate the clunkiness of them just as much as you hate the rogue ones

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •