Windwalker Raiding Experience

**ClimacticGaming** · 2012-10-12, 04:19 PM

Ok so some exciting news, not the greatest, but...an update none the less. Last night was our second attempt at MV...it took us a few tries to get in a groove of understanding everything (we had a few new people this time), but...we managed to get to 8% on our 2nd to last attempt and 13% on the last. We are so close to downing the first boss (I know, I know...we suck lol, but we are trying).

For the most part we got it, we are averaging around 7 minutes 11 seconds or so for times we got less than 10% (raid leader said 8 minutes is about right for a 10man group).

So we are there.

I am ALWAYS trying to improve myself, my dps, my knowledge etc; which is why I love you guys here.

My question is, my DPS is around 38k-44k (the 38k comes from being chained to a healer and moving slower etc

44k comes from a really on the ball fight where the chained person knows to move with me quickly etc;

I have an ilvl of 465 (I know that doesnt really mean anything)...but I am hearing some of you guys talk about 70k for a WW...I must REALLY suck...

Here is my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...dermonk/simple

What do you suggest? I have all enchants, gemmed, reforged for hit/exp 7.5, my haste is at 56% unbuffed...I have fur lining due to being a LW...leg armor etc; I am stunned on what else to do other than 1) Try DW, 2) Perhaps I am missing something skill wise I should be doing (like I learned about using Touch of Karma etc; from another post) or 3) I still need better gear.

I am still #3 dps...but dropped a few times to #4, got beat by a dk, warrior and a warlock. I want to do well, I'm trying to feel it's my 2H...

I can't get any gear for crap really, and the only heroic piece I am missing in the fizzy shoulders from the brewery. Otherwise I have 463 pieces or above.

**kirby9113** · 2012-10-12, 04:45 PM

What do you suggest? I have all enchants, gemmed, reforged for hit/exp 7.5, my haste is at 56% unbuffed...I have fur lining due to being a LW...leg armor etc; I am stunned on what else to do other than 1) Try DW, 2) Perhaps I am missing something skill wise I should be doing (like I learned about using Touch of Karma etc; from another post) or 3) I still need better gear.

looking over your gear, evereything seems allright ( what i can see on the first view). As is read in a threat a few days ago, someone wrote : " monk is very easy to learn the basic mechanics / priority list, but relatively difficult" i think hes right. At a certain point you have to play very properly to geht even higher in dmg. e.g. doing fists of fury while the dot of blackoutkick is on the target. Or for example i deal over 1mio. dmg with touch of karma by feng .

(as comparison: my ilvl is 371 atm. during my mainraid i have normally 65-75k dps, elegon i was at 115-130k, will of emperor always around 80k yesterday, if i dont fail the combo,what doesnt happen normally)
my armory link if youre interested : http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...kbird/advanced

**ClimacticGaming** · 2012-10-12, 04:51 PM

Well yeah I get that it's easy to understand but relatively difficult, but the TOP DPS in our 10man was the DK and his was 56k....the war was 46-47k and I was next with around 44k...

So I guess I am wondering how people are getting 65k-75k minimum...are you DW? I seriously doubt there is a lot I am doing wrong that would justify over a 20-30k difference per second other than gear or something.

And I guess you meant your ilvl is 471. And if the gear seems 'alright' ...what is wrong? Please provide some assistance. I did take note on using FoF during BOK so thanks for that piece.

**kirby9113** · 2012-10-12, 04:54 PM

are you DW

yes, as long as i dont get a second epic weapon, i trying to get the speed axe out of shado-pan monastry, but no luck -.-^^

seems 'alright'

i meant that you have caps and the speed /crit/mastery stats seems normal ( near to mine). the only little bigger difference is the attack power ( mine 25,5k, yours 21,5k) which is maybe one of the reasons :/

wait i found something. in your talents in tier 3, the left one ( forgot the english name , im german) is a must have talent (the one where you generate one additional chi everey 20secs )

**ClimacticGaming** · 2012-10-12, 04:56 PM

Can you link armory?

And you mean the fist wep? That's the epic that drops from there.

**Byronyk** · 2012-10-12, 05:01 PM

Hey Climactic, I wanted to see if I can give you some pointers based on your armory.

First, you'll get a dps boost by picking up Power Strikes over Acenssion. The extra chi will always help.

Second, your hit/exp is perfectly fine and at this level of gear, DW/2h has little to no difference in DPS. Pick which one is better. I'm using the 2h polearm from the Spirit Kings because it's what I got. Last night I won the 1h fist weapon from my bonus roll, but I'm not going to pair it with a blue lol.

I think your gear is overall fine. The only ways to improve your dps are to fine-tune your rotation and have as close to 100% uptime on the boss as possible (which can be hard on Guardians). I don't use FoF at all tbh. It's a marginal dps increase, and if RSK, energizing brew, or your energy caps, it's a dps lose. If you have to move mid cast for fire, it's a dps lose. It's benefits do not out way the negatives.

**Side note** Zen Sphere is terrible (imo). Chi Wave does more dmg and burst healing (which is much better in heroic fights which have lots of dmg upfront).

**ClimacticGaming** · 2012-10-12, 05:05 PM

Thank you for that information!

Yeah almost 2-3 times I had to drop midway through FoF due to a crystal shard or ice shard or whatever planting and had to move before the aoe went off and locked me there for 6 seconds.

I really guess I need to learn a lot and I am truly amazed that it could be my rotation/skill choices resulting in a 20-30k per second drop.

Is there a training dummy that is raid mob level or something I could try some stuff on? I'm new to getting this serious with a toon and never messed with training dummies before. I am on a mission to figure this out. I want to keep the Monk name clean and proud.

Yeah TBH I never changed my talents from leveling...so I guess I screwed up there and forgot to change it up. I figured Zen Sphere was a good choice to provide some healing over time for everyone as in some threads they spoke highly of it, but I have wanted to change it and do see others with chi wave.

Oh and grats on your fist wep!

I can't wait to get a new wep.

**Felade** · 2012-10-12, 05:14 PM

I find that our DPS starts out relatively low (because we have no real CDs) and we tend to pick up a little bit once we've got everything set up, and our consistent damage tends to catch us up with other DPS specs. I think part of that too is that we get past the initial craziness in the rotation where it is really hard to dump our resources effectively and can start working FoF in a bit more easily.

I wonder if the slight power strikes nerf means we'll actually be able to choose chi brew more often, meaning we'll have a bit more burst at the start of a fight?

**ClimacticGaming** · 2012-10-12, 11:03 PM

Ok so if anyone is looking there are training dummies and raiding dummies right outside the Shrine of Two Moons for Horde and I'm guessing the same for Alliance. As you exit the shrine they are on the right, around the corner.

I switched my talents to Chi Wave and Power strikes from what they were (Zen Sphere and the 5th chi spot talent)....

So after trying a few things (just to see) reforging from Haste to Crit (just to see...lol) I noticed a drop.

I went to DW (no enchants on either) and saw a drop...

I went back to 2H with my original forging (hit/exp capped etc

and I can do a solid 38k-40k (no flasks or any other buff other than my will of the emperor buff), when using Xuen, when I don't have my tiger out I hover around 38k.

I begin with expel harm, immediately pop energizing brew, my agility trinket that I have and xuen, then jab/jab/blackout jab/tiger palm, jab/FoF and rinse and repeat pretty much, ensuring I use my tiger brew and energizing brew as they become available and my agility trinket as well as Xuen.

Still...only 38k (on the raiding dummy)

**Araya** · 2012-10-13, 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by ClimacticGaming

I begin with expel harm, immediately pop energizing brew, my agility trinket that I have and xuen, then jab/jab/blackout jab/tiger palm, jab/FoF and rinse and repeat pretty much, ensuring I use my tiger brew and energizing brew as they become available and my agility trinket as well as Xuen.

Don't start like that its terrible. Start with something more like:
Jab-RSK-Jab-Tiger's Palm x3, then pop you're brew and whatever trinkets you have. Then just keep RSK on CD and TP up and spam BoK. Use Brew at 10 stacks unless Xuen is about to come off CD or Lust is close to being used. On the majority of fights currently FoF will be a DPS lose as you can't get the full effect of it due to having to move

**Kyuubi87** · 2012-10-13, 03:02 AM

Originally Posted by Araya

Don't start like that its terrible. Start with something more like:
Jab-RSK-Jab-Tiger's Palm x3, then pop you're brew and whatever trinkets you have. Then just keep RSK on CD and TP up and spam BoK. Use Brew at 10 stacks unless Xuen is about to come off CD or Lust is close to being used. On the majority of fights currently FoF will be a DPS lose as you can't get the full effect of it due to having to move

No no, use Expel Harm and build up your Chi pre-fight, make sure you go in with at least 4 (5 if you got the talent) - use RSK and stack up Tiger Palm to 3 asap, with possibly a Jab before you get the 3.

**ClimacticGaming** · 2012-10-13, 05:08 AM

Well I dont see how you can go in at 4, but yeah I've heard time and time again to start with expel harm to get it all started. Then go from there. Either way, other than that...I understand what you're saying and seem to be doing that for the most part. Still curious how I am down 20-30k dps in a raid...(unless those numbers are from people who are seriously geared)...even in 5man heroics I am top dps usually or close to...so it stuns me I only go around 44k or so in raid. Especially if I use the same rotation as others.

---------- Post added 2012-10-13 at 01:27 AM ----------

Well after looking at some logs, with my ilvl, on that boss alone...it seems I am in or around the dps range that others are. Those that are bragging about 70k are crazy because for Windwalker in general, top 10 kills for MV include one person who is at 105k and number 10 is 64k...and they are at like 468 ilvl with revered gear from lotus etc; and purps all day.

I'm not close to that. So...there is that anyway..

**Kyuubi87** · 2012-10-13, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by ClimacticGaming

Well I dont see how you can go in at 4

Chi doesn't disappear straight away

even though its gradually you still have time to get 4/5 Chi before/on pull. I end up with full energy as I'm at the boss anyway.

Edit: Time Expel Harm with your tanks pulls, even if it goes down to 3 Chi, make sure you can use EH just before he/she pulls so you end up with max amount.

**ClimacticGaming** · 2012-10-13, 06:46 AM

I'm saying...expel harm gives you 2 chi...that's it...so how can you start with 4. I know it doesn't disappear right away.

and we're talking raids so chances are you aren't clearing trash and running straight for the boss. So you won't have any residual chi leftover.

**Kyuubi87** · 2012-10-13, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by ClimacticGaming

I'm saying...expel harm gives you 2 chi...that's it...so how can you start with 4. I know it doesn't disappear right away.

and we're talking raids so chances are you aren't clearing trash and running straight for the boss. So you won't have any residual chi leftover.

Use it off CD? Have you not tried doing that? Since you don't seem to be grasping what I'm suggesting

Your Chi stays with you when you enter combat, it doesn't reset so you can build it up before a fight starts. This has nothing to do with trash whatsoever.

Edit: So.... do this: Expel Harm - you have now 2 Chi - wait 15 seconds and use Expel Harm again - you should now have 4 Chi but if you weren't clicking it fast enough you have 3 Chi - wait 15 seconds and use Expel Harm again - you definitely have 4/5 Chi at this point so keep using it every 15 seconds to keep the max Chi till the tank pulls.

Understand?

**ClimacticGaming** · 2012-10-13, 07:15 AM

Ah ok...that seems like a lot of timing and stuff cause who knows when the tank will pull...by the time we all know he does a 5 second countdown so yeah...I'll give it a shot.

**Faids** · 2012-10-13, 08:31 AM

That is #13 overall for that fight. Sad part is about 10 of the people ranking higher are tanks.

Spirit Kings Strategy:

Maintain 100% uptime by using karma and other personal cds to stay in during parts of the fight you would normally need to move out of (guy is spinning, etc). If you are separated from the boss for any reason use serpent kick to get back in, even if you are only slightly out of melee range, I believe the crash is a dps increase*. Do not use FoF on this fight, way too much movement and results in failure if not timed properly. SCK once per MC phase and go back to regular rotation. Spamming SCK during this phase will end up with not enough targets as 1 channel should be good enough to hit max amount of targets. Prestack chi with expel harm / chain blossom. Prepots.......

I mostly used tiger's brew @ 10 stacks.

**Daine** · 2012-10-13, 08:57 AM

DW is an increase if all weapons are the same ilvl by a few percent I think. Are you pre-potting/potting again later? On my phone so can't check logs. Our first raid (25), I couldn't break 40k on that boss. After going away and really tightening up my use of TEB and energising brew, managing energy and not wasting chi, I finished up over 50k in 450ish gear with a 2h and really dodgy trinkets. Seeing as we don't have a zillion cooldowns to look amazing at the pull, our rotation needs to be constantly solid. Use RSK on cooldown, keep 3x TP and then BOK as said, worry about FoF when everything else is solid. Use energising brew at low energy so you don't risk capping, and try to use TEB with it with a high amount of stacks. As you get more comfortable, line up TEB when you have a lot of resources to burn and when you aren't having to run off obviously. IMO don't sit on mastery procs unless RSK is coming off CD or you're about to cap energy.

It's tough, because we don't have any big cooldowns or much passive damage to mask our seemingly small faults. However, once you nail it your damage will be solid and consistent.

**Zeoni** · 2012-10-13, 09:26 AM

After seeing the Ret 4 pc, made me wonder why our set bonus' are so underwhelming compared to other classes'. Once all these classes start getting their 4pc and more gear, I see us falling a bit behind. Seems like everyone elses bonus' are increases X skill by X%. WTB our 4 piece bonus being increases Tigerseye Brew damage bonus by X%!

**ClimacticGaming** · 2012-10-13, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Daine

DW is an increase if all weapons are the same ilvl by a few percent I think. Are you pre-potting/potting again later? On my phone so can't check logs. Our first raid (25), I couldn't break 40k on that boss. After going away and really tightening up my use of TEB and energising brew, managing energy and not wasting chi, I finished up over 50k in 450ish gear with a 2h and really dodgy trinkets. Seeing as we don't have a zillion cooldowns to look amazing at the pull, our rotation needs to be constantly solid. Use RSK on cooldown, keep 3x TP and then BOK as said, worry about FoF when everything else is solid. Use energising brew at low energy so you don't risk capping, and try to use TEB with it with a high amount of stacks. As you get more comfortable, line up TEB when you have a lot of resources to burn and when you aren't having to run off obviously. IMO don't sit on mastery procs unless RSK is coming off CD or you're about to cap energy.

It's tough, because we don't have any big cooldowns or much passive damage to mask our seemingly small faults. However, once you nail it your damage will be solid and consistent.

Good post!

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