Windwalker Raiding Experience

**Byronyk** · 2012-10-09, 05:33 PM

@ Kyuubi - Fredz came back later in the post to discuss that and the discussion (on that) is over. I do appreciate your input though. I think Elegon is a great fight for WW monks to learn proper use of CD's and pooling energy/chi all because of the sparks. Getting 6~ stacks each time is key, and staggering your personal CD's, saving RSK, pooling energy, and so forth for that is critical.

**Sengura** · 2012-10-09, 05:44 PM

Weren't DKs the same way when they were released? They were GCD capped with weak hitting abilities (like Blood Strike, Deathcoil, Icy Touch, Plague Strike, etc). Players labeled them the "knights of 1000 papercuts" because instead of using 1 moderate to high damage ability they used many low damage abilities.

Much like the Monk now.

**Araya** · 2012-10-09, 05:54 PM

No when DK's were first release and for several months after they were OP in both tanking and DPSing.

**Kyuubi87** · 2012-10-09, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by Byronyk

@ Kyuubi - Fredz came back later in the post to discuss that and the discussion (on that) is over. I do appreciate your input though. I think Elegon is a great fight for WW monks to learn proper use of CD's and pooling energy/chi all because of the sparks. Getting 6~ stacks each time is key, and staggering your personal CD's, saving RSK, pooling energy, and so forth for that is critical.

Wasn't just particularly directing it at him more than that he was wrong. The rest of it was just for Elegon in general, so let the discussions continue.

**Vormav** · 2012-10-10, 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by Sengura

Weren't DKs the same way when they were released? They were GCD capped with weak hitting abilities (like Blood Strike, Deathcoil, Icy Touch, Plague Strike, etc). Players labeled them the "knights of 1000 papercuts" because instead of using 1 moderate to high damage ability they used many low damage abilities.

Much like the Monk now.

I have no idea where you got the idea DKs were bad when released. Blizzard even said they listened to player feedback how DKs were 'bad' all throughout the beta and the end result on live was the strongest class ever built. Season 5 is regarded as the worst PVP season partly due to the strength of DKs.

And I speak from experience, I raided as a DK from day 1 of WotLK's launch up until the end of Ulduar. We were machines. Hell even when Ulduar came out we were stupidly strong. Anyone remember that one sigil from Ulduar that increased the damage of Frost Strike and Death Coil by like 700 or something? I remember a DK spec that revolved all around having that stupidly godly sigil. It was a retard spec too. You spammed icy touch until full RP then spammed frost strike and repeat. That was it.

But yeah this threads about monks so apologies for derailing it. I'm really disappointed by what I'm hearing of monks at 90. I just came back to WoW a couple days ago and was planning to make a monk my main but now I'm worried :/

**Byronyk** · 2012-10-11, 02:11 AM

Our guild just downed Heroic Guardians.

My first tip for WW monks is when you're doing tiles, momentum makes it a LOT easier. That and FSK spreads it quickly as well, but skips over a few on the flight path. There really isn't many "WW monk specific" things to talk about except those talents. All I will say is watch your screen for cobalt mines and void zones. Mines will hit you for over 300k but it's not a one shot if you're @ 100% life. You CAN use touch of karma and take zero damage though from a mine.

The biggest frustration for me on this fight are chains. You will get chained with ranged and healers who don't understand the need for a melee to be in melee range. I will always cater to a healer, but even when the raid is fine they can still be unable to move. This is a huge reason why ranged chained with healers gives ranged a dps advantage, but either way it's your job to not let your healers die.

Here is my guilds parse for our kill. I ranked #10. I found out after though wowprogress's normal and heroic listings are the same, so our rankings are based on normal and heroic combined. If you check my armory you can see the heroic kill.

**Blackfoo** · 2012-10-11, 10:32 AM

im just a bit annoyed at it near perfect rotation for sub opt dps also how long it take ramp up wise happy with the class its new its fun could just use a little ghostcrawler love

**Tombard** · 2012-10-11, 11:59 AM

not sure if anyone wrote this because i did not read the entire thread...

but you can kill feng without getting damage of epicenter. the tank with the bubble needs to get hit by lightning fist, so the other tank can steal the stun. the next epicenter, use lightnign fist to stun feng. works every 2nd time cd wise, the other times stack up and use the tank bubble. win

**Schaden** · 2012-10-11, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Byronyk

It's perfectly fine man, lol. I'm glad you're enjoying your monk and I agree 100%!

We literally JUST killed Elegon, and here's the meters. http://imgur.com/RvVPJ

I ranked 5th on WoL xD

Confirms my suspicions upon seeing your original post: your dps wasn't spectacular, your ranged was doing bad dps. Note that nearly all of the ranged (except that hunter...) are in the 100k dps range, where they should be. When they were doing the damage they should be, your ranking bottomed out.

**Drathos** · 2012-10-11, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by sethg

Hey yall Rab here (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...n/Rab/advanced) from us #21 guild TM

A few things to note is that WW monk does not scale incredibly well with gear which means we will fall off more and more as the tier progresses. That being said, our spot within a raid is in jeopardy because WW monks have to work twice as hard to be half as good. What I mean by this is that with Perfect or near perfect play, a windwalker monk's "dps ceiling" is very low compared to others. It was a concern of mine and other top guild's ww monks in beta that Blizzard had no real model or plan for the way windwalker would play within a raid. These fears have now come to light as we do not have the utility to be "shamanesque" nor the dps to be a pure damage dealer. Where does this leave us? Well for most non exceptional players, you will be riding a lot of pine in the coming months. I have no doubt that blizzard will continue to tune and refine the WW monk but as of now, perfect play may not even cut it. This is apparent in PvP as well where our stuns are basically "skill shots" and the rampup time to get damage rolling is far too much.

By gear scaling and not enough reward for playing well, do you mean similar to T11 Feral? Because that hardly scaled with anything other than weapon, and while the DPS was okay, it was still quite hard to pull off perfectly in raid encounters.

**Byronyk** · 2012-10-11, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Schaden

Confirms my suspicions upon seeing your original post: your dps wasn't spectacular, your ranged was doing bad dps. Note that nearly all of the ranged (except that hunter...) are in the 100k dps range, where they should be. When they were doing the damage they should be, your ranking bottomed out.

You're making quiet the assumptions on what is considered "proper" damage for ranged. Our logs have many ranged ranking in the top 50 for last week and this week (We got a US 60th kill on Elegon). Last night I ranked 7th, and 10th on two fights. I'm not saying our ranged our perfect, but saying our ranged are just "bad" without any information to backup your claim is erroneous.

Either way, that is all besides the point. The purpose of this thread is to discuss raiding tactics for windwalker monks.

**ClimacticGaming** · 2012-10-11, 03:26 PM

Alright guys, so if you refer back to my earlier post I spoke about getting ready to go raiding etc;

Well...I joined a guild last week and was signed up for a shot at the 10man of MV. We went last night and...well...it was a disaster. I don't want to derail the thread as far as why everyone kept dying on the first boss, but I placed 3rd in DPS every single time. The DK I would ALWAYS beat in a guild 5man run...so I was sort of confused how he beat me by a considerable margin, but then I realized a few things I'll note below. A DK who was #1 beat my by almost 8% and the #2 a warrior, beat my by about 2%.

Most of the differences in DPS comes from 1) I didn't know the fights so I didn't DPS as hard as I should have, 2) I would get chained to a healer who ran the other way and killed me (this happened 2 times and I was the first to die in the entire raid), so the DK and Warrior would continue to DPS (thus increasing their percentage of damage) and 3) The fights lasted not even 2 minutes lmao...

So I know this post doesn't really contribute to the overall thread, I just wanted to throw out what happened to me.

I am really well geared (464 ilvl) with all enchants, gems, reforging, fur lining (low ranking of it cause my leatherworking is in the 400's) and leg armor out there.

I just think it's our LOW LOW LOW overall DPS, undergeared people, ignorance of the fight, and overall stupidty, unfortunately.

We are trying again tonight.

Thanks for all you guy's input, minus some of the random off-topic responses.

**Byronyk** · 2012-10-11, 04:07 PM

Climactic, what you posted is what the thread is about; talking about your WW raiding experiences. As I said a few posts up, that issue on being linked on Guardians is a pain. While it will be necessary to not dps the boss if a chained healer needs to heal, even when they don't need to heal they might not consider your welfare. I'd recommend speaking to your raid before you start on a priority system when chains come out and how to maximize melee up-time. Good luck tonight!

**Daine** · 2012-10-11, 04:39 PM

Warriors and DKs can cleave for a non-trivial amount of extra damage, which we just can't. They should beat you on those lions fairly comfortably.

**promdate** · 2012-10-11, 06:59 PM

We shouldn't ever beat classes that have ez-cleaves (Rogues/DK/War).

**Stuffs** · 2012-10-11, 07:29 PM

Touch of Karma is lulzy for Cobalt Mines. Also, Tiger's Lust is pretty good for that, especially with the dispel CD. I only would soak one then lust out of it on our kill, on our next kill I'll try to get multiple with them and organize dispels probably.

On Feng-
Make sure you know your guilds Bubble order for velocity. You can always Touch of Karma cheese it. You can also diffuse magic if needed.
AE stun is pretty hot, even if you already have one for Shield. AE deathgrip, kick stun, Knockback, Shockwave is our rough order.

Not much to say about fist phase, also Touch of Karma for Draw Flame on polearm.

Fort Brew isn't the most amazing cooldown, but Touch of Karma and Diffuse let us cheese some cheeky shit.

**Alviarin** · 2012-10-11, 07:33 PM

Our guild just downed Heroic Guardians.

My first tip for WW monks is when you're doing tiles, momentum makes it a LOT easier.

I find Tiger's Lust to be immensely helpful on this fight. Being able to clear yourself from slows AND gain a sprint when necessary at the cost of only 1 chi is a blessing (of Freedom, olololol).

**Byronyk** · 2012-10-11, 08:31 PM

Yeah, I picked up Tiger's Lust last night just for what Stuffs said. Us two WW monks would just ToK mines that were in the way of our tanks path and it was easy dmg + raid utility.

**Stuffs** · 2012-10-12, 05:55 AM

To reiterate after our H Feng kill
-Touch of Karma is beautiful on Feng
-Roundhouse Kick is also beautiful when the adds spawn
-Very easy to use FoF on that fight in general.

**Eggowaffles** · 2012-10-12, 06:39 AM

Just got H Stoneguard down tonight myself, didn't do to bad.

Only complaints I have about WW is ramp up time, fights like Elegon are a PITA for me, find myself focusing on adds more than I should, but they need to die. Also almost always have to spend the last 20% spamming Chi Burst to help the healers, because it has Def been needed (Got myself healed at 1% up to a livable threshold).

All in all, love WW for raids, we'll see once I get more heroic down, but concidering how well I did on dogs without the ability to cleave/multidot, I'm looking forward to more raiding.

Armory for those interested:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ffles/advanced

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