1. #1

    Veteran wow player needs major help before raid tonight.

    Doing random 5 man heroics as frost, i was crushing pugs on the meters. My dps was around 40-50k with peak over 110k. However last night I ran a guild raid on a world boss, then ran a couple heroics with guildies. I was getting crushed, guild warrior and druid were pulling almost 70k in 5 man boss fights. Hell the DK tank even beat me on a couple fights. I've never been this low on meters compared to others. I was under the impression that frost was better then fire nowadays, however I'm starting to doubt it. Currently at ilvl461 so my gear could use improvements.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...tumilly/simple

    My rotation is as follows:
    Frost Orb
    Frost Bomb
    pet freeze
    Frostbolt
    Brain Freeze
    Ice Lance

    I pop mirrors, berserking, icy veins, trinket, potion, presence of mind, and Alter time whenever i notice some passive procs up with 2 FF & BF. (kinda like arcane, 1 giant pop everything macro). Also keep Evo buff up or ward if there is incoming dmg.

    Going to use int flask and food tonight, along with int potions.
    Deep freeze does not do damage to bosses anymore (so i think, keep seeing "immune" but i might be wrong)

    Stat priority im using is: Hit cap, haste, crit, mastery

    Is fire sim'ed higher then frost? Are mages just poor dps in lower end gear at the moment compared to other classes? I would look it up over on EJ, but I'm not great navigating that site, the 100 page forum post are daunting. Also Rawr doesnt seem to be 100% updated yet. Any help or advice is higher appreciated.

  2. #2
    Mechagnome Vinni's Avatar
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    Veteran that needs help before raid? If you were a veteran then I'm sure you wouldn't need help to figure this out. Veteran he/she says.....
    ''The only true failure is when you stop trying''.

  3. #3
    Dude i played since vanilla, since before there were even honor kills. However after firelands i quit to play star wars and diablo. Been away for a while, first week back in about 9 months, missed some patches and game changes. Asking politely for help, why waste your time with negative responses.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinni View Post
    Veteran that needs help before raid? If you were a veteran then I'm sure you wouldn't need help to figure this out. Veteran he/she says.....
    Constructive contribution.

  5. #5
    The Patient Mizzow's Avatar
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    I recommend this

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...de-MoP-Edition

    Please use search features before making new threads, saves mods/users time

    Have a nice day now!

  6. #6
    I'd put down the keyboard and go for a jog.

  7. #7
    Scarab Lord Anjerith's Avatar
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    Death Knight tanks, at least at *this point* in the gearing cycle, and especially on dungeons, far surpass many classes ability to do damage in many situations.

    This is partly because Death Knights have always had a core focus on the stats they use now, while many classes had several changes to their resources or stat systems that they must now come to grips with. Many of the mechanics in Dungeons (and the raid, really) also tend to force ranged to move a lot. The tank pretty much stands still in many of the dungeon encounters, giving them a huge reason to not suck at dps.
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Gold and the 'need' for it in-game is easily one of the most overblown mindsets in this community.

  8. #8
    Brewmaster ridish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuztum View Post
    My rotation is as follows:
    Frost Orb
    Frost Bomb
    pet freeze
    Frostbolt
    Brain Freeze
    Ice Lance
    Your not wasting your icy fingers i hope, it kinda seems like you do popping frozen orb and pet freeze both before even using ice lance.
    Also you cast frost bolt while having 2 stacks of icy fingers, thats a wasted proc if the IF procs.
    Also you should stack your frost bolt up to 3 stacks for the 15% increase of IL dmg.
    Also you should open with FB and then the orb, imo it's better to wait with the orb until you reach 3 stacks of frost bolt.

    I guess you are using your alter time in a good way aswell. You should use it in combination with your cds and procs to reproc and rewind your cd's.

    You don't realy seem like a veteran if you can't even figure out a decent rotation...

  9. #9
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinni View Post
    Veteran that needs help before raid? If you were a veteran then I'm sure you wouldn't need help to figure this out. Veteran he/she says.....
    vet·er·an/ˈvetərən/
    Noun:
    A person who has had long experience in a particular field

    Playing WoW for a while doesn't mean that you're exempt from making mistakes/not knowing where you went/are going wrong.


    Is the Druid Feral? If so, could just be a lack of caster buffs, and in turn a lot of melee buffs. In 5mans with my guild (I do my utmost best NOT to go with PuGs), if it's a caster group (SPriest, Lock/Sham, Myself) my dps on 5man bosses has been 85K as frost without too much trouble. Non caster groups it suffers depending on which buffs are missing (not having 5% stats and 5% Spell Haste can hurt a fair bit, for example).
    I do find that DPS a little low, especially if the Warrior and the Druid are pulling so much. The only 'annoying' thing about frost that I've found is our Cooldowns are quite long, and so our front-end burst is very strong but if the fight ends around the 2.5 minute mark our dps is quite low at that point, whereas if your group's DPS is high and it finishes around the 1 minute mark (so ideal length in raids would be ~4 mins, ~6.5-7 mins) it's much higher.

    Both Brain Freeze and FoF take precedence over Frostbolt unless you don't have 3 stacks for your pet, in which case FoF falls behind, but Brain Freeze procs are very important to use as soon as possible.
    As well as this, if you CAN try and time your Pet Freezes/Frost Novas (if you're within range) with your Frost Bomb ticks so that it benefits from Shatter (and mastery too, I believe). Maximizing Shatters/Mastery usage is a nice way of gaining extra dps. That said, not sure if Nova even freezes the boss, so that could well be wasted.

  10. #10
    Think my biggest problem has been FoF usage, im so use to fire where i mindlessly spam fireball. Im not use to so many things taking priority over my filler. And yes i have notice cooldowns and fight length being an issue. Need to hammer out a rotation, just hope all goes well, first real raid with new guild and want to make a good impression. Thanks for the tips everyone.

    edit: also aren't FoF and frozen targets the same thing? Do u always use BF with FoF or whenever its available? And deep freeze is pointless on boss fights?

  11. #11
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuztum View Post
    Think my biggest problem has been FoF usage, im so use to fire where i mindlessly spam fireball. Im not use to so many things taking priority over my filler. And yes i have notice cooldowns and fight length being an issue. Need to hammer out a rotation, just hope all goes well, first real raid with new guild and want to make a good impression. Thanks for the tips everyone.

    edit: also aren't FoF and frozen targets the same thing? Do u always use BF with FoF or whenever its available? And deep freeze is pointless on boss fights?
    BF and FoF procs automatically take into account crit% (Shatter) and Mastery, but Frost Bomb doesn't, hence why you should try to allow it to benefit from them when possible, as Bomb hits like a truck.
    If you have one FoF proc, you don't *have* to use it immediately (though it's still a DPS increase if it's the highest priority spell available), but if BF is up, it takes priority over almost everything (Orb and Bomb still take precedence), and 2 FoF comes after. Kuni's Frost Mage guide explains this ^^.

    Deep Freeze is only useful in PvP or in situations where stunning an add is required.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    Deep Freeze is only useful in PvP or in situations where stunning an add is required.
    Obviously this doesnt apply to bosses, but for reg mobs/trash deep freeze is pretty sick, most reliable way to get a shatter combo with frost bomb, plus 2 IL and a FFB, sick burst.


    trash aoe, frost bomb one, pet nova>deep, massive explosion + frost orb and blizzard, is pretty good dps.
    ALL DAY SON ALLLLLLLLLLLLL DAY.

  13. #13
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pnad View Post
    Obviously this doesnt apply to bosses, but for reg mobs/trash deep freeze is pretty sick, most reliable way to get a shatter combo with frost bomb, plus 2 IL and a FFB, sick burst.


    trash aoe, frost bomb one, pet nova>deep, massive explosion + frost orb and blizzard, is pretty good dps.
    I've found that Frost Bomb -> Pet Nova into Frozen Orb, Personal Nova and CoC (glyphed) into Blizzard, rinse repeat is disgusting, but that's just me ^^. Considering the thread was about raiding I decided not to talk about trash, etc :P

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