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  1. #1

    Mage 90 Talents are terrible

    Does anyone agree with me?

    Invocation:
    Do I really need to cast my 5-8 second evocate every 30-40 seconds. That means every pull in any instance or solo. It just seems like a chore. It does not give me any enjoyment....

    Rune of Power:
    This is mostly the same as Invocation.... every pull I have put it down.

    Basically, it just feels like a huge chore and really killed my enjoyment of mage dps for the past 6 years of having it as my main....

  2. #2
    An analogy here.

    When I cut a piece of wood with a saw, it seems such a chore to go and get the mitre, put the bit of wood in there and set up the angle.

    I don't have to, but it certainly gets the job done quicker and better.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    An analogy here.

    When I cut a piece of wood with a saw, it seems such a chore to go and get the mitre, put the bit of wood in there and set up the angle.

    I don't have to, but it certainly gets the job done quicker and better.
    Not quite sure where your going with that.

  4. #4
    Do you actually have to let the full cast for evocation finish to get the benefit from it?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Phobicpanda View Post
    Do you actually have to let the full cast for evocation finish to get the benefit from it?
    yep, at my current gear, its about a 5.4 cast with buffs

  6. #6
    Pandaren Monk Asmodias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sef24 View Post
    Does anyone agree with me?

    Invocation:
    Do I really need to cast my 5-8 second evocate every 30-40 seconds. That means every pull in any instance or solo. It just seems like a chore. It does not give me any enjoyment....

    Rune of Power:
    This is mostly the same as Invocation.... every pull I have put it down.

    Basically, it just feels like a huge chore and really killed my enjoyment of mage dps for the past 6 years of having it as my main....
    I noticed you didn't say anything about Incanter's Ward. Is that because that one feels less like a chore?

    Curious, what would you rather see? If you could redesign the lvl 90 Mage talents, how would you do it?

    As for your question: "Does anyone agree with me?" I am sure there are people that would agree with you. Haven't tried it on live, but I played with it in the beta. To me, it didn't seem all that bad. Though, I don't usually bother with CDs during 5 mans or Solo (Granted, that will change with Challenges and what not). I guess I would not agree with you, but I could see how using Invocation could become rather tedious in any of the rotations.


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  7. #7
    Maybe your burning through mana too quick and not efficiently?

  8. #8
    I've tried all three
    None are too bad for general dungeoning but it's foolishness to play with anything but the ward for questing

    So... use the ward
    It has a pain-free passive and both saves your neck and gives you bonus damage if someone is beating on you

    Easy

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodias View Post
    I noticed you didn't say anything about Incanter's Ward. Is that because that one feels less like a chore?

    Curious, what would you rather see? If you could redesign the lvl 90 Mage talents, how would you do it?

    As for your question: "Does anyone agree with me?" I am sure there are people that would agree with you. Haven't tried it on live, but I played with it in the beta. To me, it didn't seem all that bad. Though, I don't usually bother with CDs during 5 mans or Solo (Granted, that will change with Challenges and what not). I guess I would not agree with you, but I could see how using Invocation could become rather tedious in any of the rotations.
    I would rather see something that I can put in my rotation itself, and not something that I have to cast after every pack is dead. There can be many varations, I just won't put my mind into it right now

  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral Rinoa's Avatar
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    I agree, I feel like I either have to clip fires, CC myself or make movement super clunky in order to do decent damage. At the moment I just wish the level 90 tier was completely removed, maintenance buffs that take up so much time to keep going aren't fun at all for me

    Edit: For Asmodias;

    Personally I'd just like the whole tier to be reworked. In my opinion it's alright for arcane, but for fire and frost it just feels awful. I strongly dislike it. Though, if I could modify the talents a bit in order to make them less annoying I'd do this.

    Invocation - also reduces the cast time of Evocation by 50% and makes it castable on the move but gives it a 25 second cooldown instead of 10.

    Rune of Power - Instant cast, has no cooldown but only 2 can be on the floor at any given time. Also off the global cooldown.

    Incanter's Ward - I can't think of anything. The fact that this talent incentivices taking more damage than you have to is just... >_<
    Last edited by Rinoa; 2012-09-27 at 03:31 AM.

  11. #11
    2 solutions.

    Change Evocation to an instant cast spell which gives you mana over 6 seconds, after 6 seconds you get the 25% damage buff if you choose the talent or;

    Allow you to cast Evocation whilst moving so you can apply the buff and keep up with your group in 5 mans or keep up with teammates in PvP etc.

  12. #12
    totally agree, terrible boring to much downtime, 40 sec its just to little buff time, i can tell that fire in instances is terrible dps, i cant compete in aoe with any class, in single target its ok /medium but in trash is WAY low... blizzard need to change mage aoe pretty fast or ppl with get bored fast.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthThrall View Post
    2 solutions.

    Change Evocation to an instant cast spell which gives you mana over 6 seconds, after 6 seconds you get the 25% damage buff if you choose the talent or;

    Allow you to cast Evocation whilst moving so you can apply the buff and keep up with your group in 5 mans or keep up with teammates in PvP etc.
    That actually would be much better.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Rinoa View Post
    Incanter's Ward - I can't think of anything. The fact that this talent incentivices taking more damage than you have to is just... >_<
    IW has higher priority than Ice Barrier and such (meaning you can take a hit that breaks one but not the second, leaving you with 30% damage increase and no lost health) and many raid bosses (and several dungeon ones) have AOE aura effects or randomly targetted spells that are unavoidable
    You do not have to jump into fire to get the full benefit in many situations, you will still get your whole 30% boost a large amount of the time and a partial one even if it doesn't break fully

    If you are a very good player, then you can play it offensively like a mage version of the old Anti-Magic Barrier, adding an extra element of skill to what you are doing

    This is honestly only a good thing

  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans LocNess's Avatar
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    I was super pumped for them, then hit 90. Only at ilevel 444 right now, but my Evo cast is like 5.2 seconds which is embarrassing sitting there that long to get the buff. Haven't tried Rune of Power too much or the other. I wish we could just sacrifice our Water Elemental for extra damage or something, it is honestly not fun trying to stand in one place for a minute to get a damage buff (though I LOVE the idea of Rune of Power) or cast a long spell every 40 seconds.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by sef24 View Post
    Not quite sure where your going with that.
    The level 90 talents don't have to be used on EVERY trash pull, however when you are on a boss or a specific pull that needs something special - use what is appropriate.

  17. #17
    Bloodsail Admiral Rinoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    IW has higher priority than Ice Barrier and such (meaning you can take a hit that breaks one but not the second, leaving you with 30% damage increase and no lost health) and many raid bosses (and several dungeon ones) have AOE aura effects or randomly targetted spells that are unavoidable
    You do not have to jump into fire to get the full benefit in many situations, you will still get your whole 30% boost a large amount of the time and a partial one even if it doesn't break fully

    If you are a very good player, then you can play it offensively like a mage version of the old Anti-Magic Barrier, adding an extra element of skill to what you are doing

    This is honestly only a good thing
    Most bosses I've done so far (most heroic dungeons) all have a ton of mechanics that are completely avoidable. In a large majority of them I don't take any damage at all, making the talent rather bad.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    The level 90 talents don't have to be used on EVERY trash pull, however when you are on a boss or a specific pull that needs something special - use what is appropriate.
    so I should cripple myself while others do not need to? It matters for efficiency, it may not matter to you, but my group would appreciate it.
    I also like killing stuff faster for dailies for time consumption.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Rinoa View Post
    Most bosses I've done so far (most heroic dungeons) all have a ton of mechanics that are completely avoidable. In a large majority of them I don't take any damage at all, making the talent rather bad.
    Plus, IW's burst is completely dependent on taking damage JUST before the burst is needed. No damage at the right time means no burst at the critical moment.

    Though I'm kind of looking forward to taking Invocation as Arcane. By the sims I've seen it should be viable to just Bomb/AB/Missiles spam to 30% mana, Evocate, rinse and repeat.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Sattori View Post
    Plus, IW's burst is completely dependent on taking damage JUST before the burst is needed. No damage at the right time means no burst at the critical moment.

    Though I'm kind of looking forward to taking Invocation as Arcane. By the sims I've seen it should be viable to just Bomb/AB/Missiles spam to 30% mana, Evocate, rinse and repeat.
    As arcane, I was crazy psyched for Invocation. I can be lazy and just Spam mostly AB like I did in DS? Sign me up!

    I gave it a chance, I really did, I tried different rotations, different gear, everything, but it all came down to the same premise, Invocation is absolutely terrible as Arcane. Maybe its better for fire or frost, but I highly doubt it. When it comes to any pve content, Rune of Power is 90% of the time going to be your go to talent, with IW being the other 10% on fights that you can abuse it.

    As an aside, I'm very happy with how good Ice Floes is as Arcane. I was originally intending on just using scorch, but when you know the fights, Ice Floes is fantastic, don't ever have to stop casting.

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