Exactly why I dont PvE.

[LuminousAether]

actually just leave those ppls that tell you how you should tank! whoever tells this never played a tank or healer. its almost only DDs that demand aoe tanking an then focus ONE aof those targets an push their dps so they aggro it and then eventually die. i immediately leave those groups cause im back in in there in 10minutes instant invite, wheile they wait 30minutes for their next tank, that will probably do the same as me ... just never ever reward those ppl with your work of tanking!

If the tank leaves, your group is placed at the top of the queue. Getting a new tank is practically instant. Certainly will never take even 1/10th of 30 minutes.

[Reyina]

You don't HAVE to get aggro if the DPS/Healer pulls mobs before you're even ready.

Even if you get it back, most people will get super pissed that the mobs they pulled didn't magically aggro onto you.

[LuminousAether]

The best part being the guy claiming the rest of the team sucks is usually so busy lambasting the team that he doesn't have time to climb beyond the bottom 1/5 of the team on the board at the end of the BG.

"OMG u newb you're on the bottom of the meters lol"

"Dude, I was guarding GM the whole time and it was only attacked twice during the random BG"

"lol excuses newb"

Do people really pay attention to the score board? That's gotta be the worst metric of success for battlegrounds.

---------- Post added 2012-10-03 at 11:39 PM ----------

Well, I was talking about early Cata in my story above. I'm not currently playing, so maybe that's true.

Still, just because this is what YOU experience doesn't mean that everyone else does too.

Threat is not a mechanic anymore. Tanks can now hold threat without even trying. Everyone does experience this, the OP of this thread simply didn't know how to tank and didn't bother reading up on it or practicing the moves during quests. He just jumped into LFD, had no idea what he was doing, caused annoyance to his fellow players, and then came here and complained about it.

[Reyina]

Threat is not a mechanic anymore. Tanks can now hold threat without even trying. Everyone does experience this, the OP of this thread simply didn't know how to tank and didn't bother reading up on it or practicing the moves during quests. He just jumped into LFD, had no idea what he was doing, caused annoyance to his fellow players, and then came here and complained about it.

Can you explain how to practice holding aggro while solo? EVERYONE was new at some point. You learn by doing. There's no reason to be a jerk.

[LuminousAether]

I'm levelling my brewmaster atm, I've raided end game for years now and tanked on every single class. Since MOP came out I have never hated doing dungeons as much as I do now. The community seems to have forgotten all about letting tanks pull in this patch and has even argued with me when i tell them that they should let the tank pull. I explained to one guy (a shaman) that kept pulling and claiming "you don't need tanks at level 40 lolol fucking noob etc. etc.", that i was using these levels to get to know my new abilities and a new class...his response made me laugh. "I already know all classes don't need tank just speed fk off tank". (that's an exact quote btw). So i feel the OP's pain and people need to remember that they're in there to do a job...do it and don't make other people's more difficult!

To be fair, you don't need tanks at that level. That is true. You never did, not even in Vanilla. Early in TBC, on a druid alt, I ran Zul'Farrak with 5 dps and it was the fastest, easiest clear of that place I had until the random dungeon finder was invented and nerfed the crap out of the place. Also, to be fair, slow tanks are the most annoying thing in PVE and a tank complaining about dps pulling mobs that the dps can easily survive through is almost as annoying. I remember when I was playing my mage and I was pulling the non-elite solo pulls in Dead-mines. This tank raged so hard that he just left the group, which was hilarious to me. They weren't even elite mobs. So yeah, never yell at the dps for pulling before you. If they are pulling before you, you are going to slow. Go faster. This is from someone that plays tanks and healers at least 80% of the time.

[Deleted]

Can you explain how to practice holding aggro while solo? EVERYONE was new at some point. You learn by doing. There's no reason to be a jerk.

Not possible to solo, as the mobs will always be aggroed to you anyway.

[LuminousAether]

Can you explain how to practice holding aggro while solo? EVERYONE was new at some point. You learn by doing. There's no reason to be a jerk.

Again with holding aggro. That's not a mechanic anymore. If you perform a couple abilities, you have threat. That's it. Period. The dps will not get it back, they can't. You already have a higher threat lead than they will ever be able to surpass with one shield slam and one revenge alone.

You practice your damage rotation while soloing. Holding threat is meaningless, that's not an appropriate statement anymore. It really sounds to me like you haven't tanked in MoP, so you're arguing about something you know nothing about. That is not good form.

[Deleted]

Again with holding aggro. That's not a mechanic anymore. If you perform a couple abilities, you have threat. That's it. Period. The dps will not get it back, they can't. You already have a higher threat lead than they will ever be able to surpass with one shield slam and one revenge alone.

You practice your damage rotation while soloing. Holding threat is meaningless, that's not an appropriate statement anymore. It really sounds to me like you haven't tanked in MoP, so you're arguing about something you know nothing about. That is not good form.

Wrong, it's still possible to pull mobs off the tank after he built up threat on them, especially if you have extremely high AOE capabilities like Ele Shamans do.

[LuminousAether]

As a healer, I enjoyed it when I had at least one good dps because the rest of the group just wasn't necessary and I gave no shits to what happened. Hell when leveling my shaman I ended up tanking some BC instances as Enhancement because the tank was terrible and quit but the healer was decent so it didn't matter in the slightest. In wrath I consistently did heroics without a tank on purpose because it was faster and I preferred actually having to do SOMETHING other than spam lightning bolt and a riptide here or there. I've even noticed a lot of the challenge mode groups are just running without a dedicated healer which sort of makes me happy, as I eventually got the the point end wrath going into cata that I just stuck elemental and healed as that, or wore my T6 while healing dungeons because they were piss easy.

Also yes, the majority of pugs are retarded, in all games. Even RIFT that has one of the best PvE communities I have ever been a part of still had bad random players in dungeons. Or better yet go look at MOBAs or FPS random people, it's all the same. People as a whole are assholes or bad at games on the internet, even one of my RL friends was mad that hunters couldn't use melee and ranged weapons at the same time anymore since he didn't want to bother moving during combat and just wanted to switch to melee when the mob reached him.

I always preferred running the WotLK Heroics as 4 dps + 1 tank instead of 4 dps + 1 healer because a tank does sick AoE damage and keeps the mobs nice and stacked up.

[Reyina]

Again with holding aggro. That's not a mechanic anymore. If you perform a couple abilities, you have threat. That's it. Period. The dps will not get it back, they can't. You already have a higher threat lead than they will ever be able to surpass with one shield slam and one revenge alone.

You practice your damage rotation while soloing. Holding threat is meaningless, that's not an appropriate statement anymore. It really sounds to me like you haven't tanked in MoP, so you're arguing about something you know nothing about. That is not good form.

I already said that I haven't played this expansion. I'm not arguing about anything. I'm discussing, and asking questions about things I don't know.

It sounds like you're getting overly defensive. That's not good form.

[LuminousAether]

Wrong, it's still possible to pull mobs off the tank after he built up threat on them, especially if you have extremely high AOE capabilities like Ele Shamans do.

No it surely isn't. And ele shamans are ridiculously outclassed in terms of AOE damage by shadow priests, mages, and warlocks.

---------- Post added 2012-10-03 at 11:50 PM ----------

I already said that I haven't played this expansion. I'm not arguing about anything. I'm discussing, and asking questions about things I don't know.

It sounds like you're getting overly defensive. That's not good form.

No, you are clearly arguing. You are saying that I am wrong about something you have no experience with. And no, I'm not getting defensive and I would call that a diversion. It's not going to work. If you don't know what tanking is like MoP, you should really just stay out of the conversation.

[Acry]

I could say the same about all the people i've encountered while pvping.

[Deleted]

No it surely isn't. And ele shamans are ridiculously outclassed in terms of AOE damage by shadow priests, mages, and warlocks.

Shadow Priests and Warlocks are currently overpowered. And mages don't even stand the slightest chance against almost any other class when it comes to AOE. Ele Shamans are the only ranged class capable of getting close to SPriest/Warlock AOE.

[LuminousAether]

Shadow Priests and Warlocks are currently overpowered. And mages don't even stand the slightest chance against almost any other class when it comes to AOE. Ele Shamans are the only ranged class capable of getting close to SPriest/Warlock AOE.

I'll be sure and tell that to my guildy mage that was doing 200k+ AOE damage all night last night. I'll let him know that some guy on mmo-champ said mages can't AOE as well as other classes. He'll just laugh and continue to outdps everyone.

[Reyina]

No it surely isn't. And ele shamans are ridiculously outclassed in terms of AOE damage by shadow priests, mages, and warlocks.

---------- Post added 2012-10-03 at 11:50 PM ----------



No, you are clearly arguing. You are saying that I am wrong about something you have no experience with. And no, I'm not getting defensive and I would call that a diversion. It's not going to work. If you don't know what tanking is like MoP, you should really just stay out of the conversation.

Yeah, because I don't know anything about this, I shouldn't be able to learn. Totally how the world works, especially in internet forums. Good advice!

[Ferocity]

Again with holding aggro. That's not a mechanic anymore. If you perform a couple abilities, you have threat. That's it. Period. The dps will not get it back, they can't.

Read original post carefuly. OP had 3 levels difference with mobs, it's a huge penalty to hit and expertise (which is a huge rarity on pre60 gear). And if you get constant ninja-pulls you won't even have vengeance.

To OP: you simply had terrible group. I don't know what to say to you, as at 90 situation isn't much better. Kids and people with bad attitude cheated their way into hcs with PvP gear, and as new 5-men are faceroll, it is all plagued with that kind of people now. Playerbase changed drastically, especially with MoP. Those normal people who are still left, stick in their small groups to not deal with pugs.

[LuminousAether]

Read original post carefuly. OP had 3 levels difference with mobs, it's a huge penalty to hit and expertise (which is a huge rarity on pre60 gear). And if you get constant ninja-pulls you won't even have vengeance.

To OP: you simply had terrible group. I don't know what to say to you, as at 90 situation isn't much better. Kids and people with bad attitude cheated their way into hcs with PvP gear, and as new 5-men are faceroll, it is all plagued with that kind of people now. Playerbase changed drastically, especially with MoP. Those normal people who are still left, stick in their small groups to not deal with pugs.

I've leveled every tanking class to the level cap except monk, which is well on the way. I've tanked Ramparts as a level 58 MANY times. I've chain pulled and destroyed the place with level 62 DPS MANY times. It is dead simple and it always has been. Hit is not that necessary at that level. Expertise is completely unnecessary and has nothing to do with AOE tanking. If you have no vengeance, then you're clearly not pulling fast enough, which explains why the dps was behaving the way they were (slow tanks are impossibly annoying and will cause strife in any group they join).

[pallydan]

General rule for trash tanking:

-Prioritize on AoE abilities and spam those buttons like crazy
-Don't waste rage on anything single target
-Try to be at full rage in between pulls by not doing anything, other that autoattack, before shit dies

[Dragoncurry]

BRO CHARGE N SHOCKWAVE N THUNDERWAVE N STUFF bam agro problems GONE.

[Galbrei]

Dungeon lvling experience is completely different from endgame PvE experience. DG lvling is a far more traumatic experience for one.