1. #1

    what are fore mage haste platues?

    So I have seen several comments on what is the haste plateau that we should be gunning for, for extra combustion ticks, is it 2437 or 5049?

    EDIT: i should spellcheck my titles
    Last edited by Rekindled; 2012-10-04 at 12:36 AM.
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  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire Shpetznaz's Avatar
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    fore mage?

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-04 at 12:01 PM ----------

    It takes 425 Haste to gain 1% haste at lvl 90.

    Combustion gets another tick at 12.5% and 25%.

    12.5*425 = 5313 haste for 1st extra tick. (rounded up)
    25*425 = 10625 haste for the 2nd combustion tick.

    However we need to factor in the 5% haste raid buff:

    x = haste needed from gear.

    first extra tick:
    12.5 = x*1.05
    x = 12.5/1.05
    x = 11.9047619047% haste
    x = 5060 haste RATING (rounded up) for the first tick

    second extra tick:
    25 = x*1.05
    x = 25/1.05
    x = 23.8095238095% haste
    x = 10120 haste RATING (rounded up) for the second tick

    tl;dr:

    5060 haste rating for first extra tick
    10120 haste rating for the second tick
    Quote Originally Posted by Aloodanis View Post
    Damn casuals and their vending machines. Back in my day, We had to go all the way from Orgrimmar to Desolace to pick up chips from the store. we had to do an extensive attunement quest to get into the store and we had to assemble 39 other people to fight the many other trash mobs, i mean trash food, to get to the chip isle. Oh and most of us couldn't even afford our epic car mount to drive there, we had to settle for our 60% bike mounts.

  3. #3
    5060 haste for the first tick? yeah thats not happening unless you want less then 20% crit. jesus christ

  4. #4
    Let's assume that your right middle finger went stupid for a moment, and that should say "fire mage". Also, it's "plateau". Blame the French, what with women and their beaus partying at their chateaus... ok that went on a little too long.

    I don't know for sure what the new numbers are, but I do know that completely eschewing haste for crit really makes fire seem clunky. I'm aiming for 12.5% haste, which is 5312 rating, and that puts my Fireball at a 2 second cast time. 2 second Fireball was when everything seemed to flow the best for me during Cataclysm, so that's what I'm shooting for now, until I see hard numbers to convince me otherwise.

    It's possible that using Frost Armor in these early gearing stages would help, but I don't know if you can make up the crit you lose from Molten Armor. If you do try using Frost Armor, then only a minimal amount of haste is necessary on your gear to hit the 12.5% threshold.

  5. #5
    AH thank-you so much, I have been reforging now with my 470 ilvl and I hit 20.1% crit with 13% haste (7%Frost armor) seems pretty sweet.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Rekindled View Post
    AH thank-you so much, I have been reforging now with my 470 ilvl and I hit 20.1% crit with 13% haste (7%Frost armor) seems pretty sweet.
    You don't use frost armor as fire...

  7. #7
    well as it stands we want haste(Platue)>crit>haste>mastery... so why not use it.


    also gunhound it isnt 5% haste more than you have, its 5% flat or about ~2.2k rating
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by gunhound45 View Post
    fore mage?

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-04 at 12:01 PM ----------

    It takes 425 Haste to gain 1% haste at lvl 90.

    Combustion gets another tick at 12.5% and 25%.

    12.5*425 = 5313 haste for 1st extra tick. (rounded up)
    25*425 = 10625 haste for the 2nd combustion tick.

    However we need to factor in the 5% haste raid buff:

    x = haste needed from gear.

    first extra tick:
    12.5 = x*1.05
    x = 12.5/1.05
    x = 11.9047619047% haste
    x = 5060 haste RATING (rounded up) for the first tick

    second extra tick:
    25 = x*1.05
    x = 25/1.05
    x = 23.8095238095% haste
    x = 10120 haste RATING (rounded up) for the second tick

    tl;dr:

    5060 haste rating for first extra tick
    10120 haste rating for the second tick
    This is all incorrect.

    Combustion ticks come at 5%, 15%, 25%, etc.
    Glyphed Combustion ticks at 2.5%, 7.5%, 12.5%, 17.5%, etc.
    Living Bomb/Pyro gain ticks at 12.5%, 37.5%, 62.5%, etc.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-04 at 10:44 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rekindled View Post
    well as it stands we want haste(Platue)>crit>haste>mastery... so why not use it.


    also gunhound it isnt 5% haste more than you have, its 5% flat or about ~2.2k rating
    In my sims, Crit is beating haste regardless of breakpoints.

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral spaace's Avatar
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    Don't ever use frost armor as fire...
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by gunhound45 View Post
    fore mage?

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-04 at 12:01 PM ----------

    It takes 425 Haste to gain 1% haste at lvl 90.

    Combustion gets another tick at 12.5% and 25%.

    12.5*425 = 5313 haste for 1st extra tick. (rounded up)
    25*425 = 10625 haste for the 2nd combustion tick.

    However we need to factor in the 5% haste raid buff:

    x = haste needed from gear.

    first extra tick:
    12.5 = x*1.05
    x = 12.5/1.05
    x = 11.9047619047% haste
    x = 5060 haste RATING (rounded up) for the first tick

    second extra tick:
    25 = x*1.05
    x = 25/1.05
    x = 23.8095238095% haste
    x = 10120 haste RATING (rounded up) for the second tick

    tl;dr:

    5060 haste rating for first extra tick
    10120 haste rating for the second tick
    Don't want to be insulting or anything, but wow, this is a lot of wrong stuff right there.

    Firstly, as mentioned by Pulski, Combustion gains a tick at 15% not 12,5%. 12,5% is only for LB (or glyphed combustion I guess).

    And even more important: Your math is all wrong. To get to 12,5% raidbuffed you need to have 7,16% haste from gear (3043 rating)

    Here's the math to back it up: 1,0716*1,05 = 1,12518 - this is a little higher than 12,5000% though; since some rounding issues I guess; exactly 12,5% would need 7,14% (1,125/1,05=1,0714286) but as far as I know it won't yield you the extra tick because of said rounding issues ingame (please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).
    Last edited by Carline; 2012-10-04 at 04:48 PM.

  11. #11
    Carline Or any one else Wanna do the math for Glyphed combustion 15% breakpoint ? And why is there no spreadsheets out there for this sort of stuff ? i recently started playing again but on my druid and there was tons of info on stuff like this on Ej and mmo. as mage i have to spent hours searching for stuff like this.

    am i just searching the wrong places? i use Ej, Mmo, Icy(seems crap though)

  12. #12
    Stood in the Fire
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    That's all wrong. You forget the "rounding" of blizzard. Blizz (mostly) rounds down the required tick duration and adds + 0,4999 ms. That's where you have to start. More details would be too complicated. Gonna update my C# program in the next days (see description - Prepatch mode)
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  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire Tag of Fire's Avatar
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    I'd love to see an update for that. I, too, have been struggling finding accurate data on Haste plateaus. Especially with all the available DoTs come Mists (Ignite, Pyroblast, Living Bomb, Nether Tempest, Combustion, Glyphed Combustion).

  14. #14
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    Use this table: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...ZC1KekE#gid=19 and extrapolate the haste values for level 90, I personally didn't bother doing it myself. Thanks again for whoever did this table in the first place.

    Also, fore mage is the foreman of magical experiments

  15. #15
    Bumping this up. Is there a consensus that 7.16% / 3043 is the minimum number for 12.5% raid buffed?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by azzgunther View Post
    Bumping this up. Is there a consensus that 7.16% / 3043 is the minimum number for 12.5% raid buffed?
    Its around there yes, though haste before or after this is never above crit(or thats how it looked for me according to simcraft when i geared up), though it is never much behind either, haste for fire is a good stat, crit just is purely better and after certain point, it starts to scale better and better

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