1. #1

    Rupture multidotting?

    I leveled as Sub all the way to 90, and I plan to PvE as Sub mainly and Combat when I need to or w/e is better. Anyways! Ever since I started running dungeons I began to think of ways to increase my DPS. Basically almost every trash pull as Sub I have been Prem>SnD>Ambush>BS>BS>Rupture>Hemo-target switch-RD>BS>BS>BS>BS>Rupture>Hemo. After I get 2 Ruptures out I end the pull with FoK+CT spamming. Now my recount says CT is my best source of damage for a lot of these pulls. Obviously, because Rupture takes ~20 seconds to do its' full damage, and CT is instant and is doing 17k+ crits at 5 CPS.

    Now, once I get into raids with bigger mobs, longer trash, and even boss adds... would it be advantageous to continue doing this?

    I really enjoy Sub PvE over both Combat and Mut by a lot.

  2. #2
    You seem to waste a lot of potential dps-time by manually throwing Rupture up on multiple targets. A 1-point CT will activate Sanguinary Vein on all targets, enabling you to instantly AOE with FOK and 5-point CT's. That's a much better way to do things than putting up 2 Ruptures.

    Or did I misunderstand you, and are you speaking of "cleave"-heavy fights?

  3. #3
    The problem you are facing right now is all the backstabs and other sources of damage on your new fresh 2nd target aren't getting the Sanguinary Vein boost. That's a lot of potential damage wasted.

    What Incineration said seems a much better alternative. One combo point Crimson Tempest before doing anything else.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise (Eternity), Bolt, Frostfang, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Incinerator, ascended medium armor.

  4. #4
    I just don't think it'd be wise to try "multi-dotting" Rupture on any raid fights.

    1. Rupture doesn't do enough damage to justify "multi-dotting" it.
    2. There aren't any other Subtlety "cleave" AoEs to line up with Rupture.
    3. You lose a lot of single-target DPS.

    BUT, if you are hell-bent on cleaving as Subtlety:

    1. Pick up Versatility and macro Redirect onto EVERYTHING.
    2. Vanish/Prep-Vanish/Shadow Dance every time you're wanting to multi-dot-cleave with Rupture.

    That's about the only way I can see you sustaining good numbers cleaving as Subtlety.
    Carp - Illidan-US
    I wish I wish I was a fish.
    Rogue - Warlock

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Carp The Fish View Post
    I just don't think it'd be wise to try "multi-dotting" Rupture on any raid fights.

    1. Rupture doesn't do enough damage to justify "multi-dotting" it.
    2. There aren't any other Subtlety "cleave" AoEs to line up with Rupture.
    3. You lose a lot of single-target DPS.

    BUT, if you are hell-bent on cleaving as Subtlety:

    1. Pick up Versatility and macro Redirect onto EVERYTHING.
    2. Vanish/Prep-Vanish/Shadow Dance every time you're wanting to multi-dot-cleave with Rupture.

    That's about the only way I can see you sustaining good numbers cleaving as Subtlety.
    Wouldn't work. Last time I checked, Redirect used up a global cooldown. Nevermind the fact that I doubt he'd actually outperform his single target damage that way.

    Fact of the matter is this...
    - Subtlety is a single target spec with very decent AOE potential.
    - Assassination is a single target spec with very decent AOE potential.
    - Neither of them have any cleaving potential, whatsoever.
    - Combat is a weak single target spec, with weak AOE potential, but with immense cleaving-power.

    If he's a decent player, (By that I mean, if he wants to optimize performance depending on the fights at hand) and he wants to AOE, he can have his pick between Subtlety and Assassination. If he wants reliable single target damage, Subtlety and Assassination shine once more. But if he wants to cleave, there's simply is no alternative to Combat. He'll have to swallow the bitter pill and get used to spamming Sinister Strike...

  6. #6
    Yeah, I agree with them, wouldn't work worth a crap as sub. As assassination, I think getting deadly and a rupture on a second mob (if there are not enough to warrant FoK) is probably a dps gain. You are doing full damage from the get go, that first application of deadly poison on a new target will do far more over the dot than the instant damage you would get refreshing it on your first target. You also get more energy generation. So, I would suggest that you switch to assassination if you really want to rupture multidot. Either way though, if there aren't enough mobs to FoK, combat is going to be a mile ahead if there is more than one.

  7. #7
    The only "Cleaving" possibilities I see for Sub are to maintain your single target rotation but instead of Evis you throw up a CT and let the dot tick on both targets. Not sure of the numbers it pulls compared to Evis but it's some food for thought.
    Obviously Combat wins the cleaving battle in this, but if you're deadset on playing Sub.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Hayturr View Post
    The only "Cleaving" possibilities I see for Sub are to maintain your single target rotation but instead of Evis you throw up a CT and let the dot tick on both targets. Not sure of the numbers it pulls compared to Evis but it's some food for thought.
    Obviously Combat wins the cleaving battle in this, but if you're deadset on playing Sub.
    That would be a DPS increase. CT was double-dipping on SV, putting it ahead of evis on single target, and without that, it's behind evis on 1 target... but two targets at no additional cost is twice the damage, before considering that it can apply DP to the second target as well...* (assuming no FW; I'm pretty sure, although I didn't check at the time, that since CT is a bleed evis was back ahead during FW -- but the point is largely moot)

    In reality, you're not going to see much use out of "rupture multi-dotting" or trying to DPS multiple targets in Sub, because other than "there are 2 mobs here for ~10 seconds so I'll CT to hit both even though other raiders have better cleave" you'll just be combat for any 2+ target encounter with large proximity uptime.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    Yeah, I agree with them, wouldn't work worth a crap as sub. As assassination, I think getting deadly and a rupture on a second mob (if there are not enough to warrant FoK) is probably a dps gain. You are doing full damage from the get go, that first application of deadly poison on a new target will do far more over the dot than the instant damage you would get refreshing it on your first target. You also get more energy generation. So, I would suggest that you switch to assassination if you really want to rupture multidot. Either way though, if there aren't enough mobs to FoK, combat is going to be a mile ahead if there is more than one.
    This is a tricky situation. I agree with you that it sounds appealing, but you have to also remember you are sacrificing 5 point Envenoms, and with it you are sacrificing the Envenom buff. A long time without the Envenom buff is bad. I've tried heavy multi-rupturing (I had 4 ruptures going at once in the last dungeon I did) and it was a little bit behind where I would have been if I had just single target DPS.
    "Our logic is actually pretty simple. If hybrid classes can do the same dps as pure classes, then why have pure classes in the game? So we design the pure classes to do slightly higher dps." -Ghostcrawler 3/22/2009
    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15864857264&pageNo=4&sid=1#66

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by NonMagical View Post
    This is a tricky situation. I agree with you that it sounds appealing, but you have to also remember you are sacrificing 5 point Envenoms, and with it you are sacrificing the Envenom buff. A long time without the Envenom buff is bad. I've tried heavy multi-rupturing (I had 4 ruptures going at once in the last dungeon I did) and it was a little bit behind where I would have been if I had just single target DPS.
    It's not surprising, really. Rupture ticks for shit, even in Sub where it's buffed by Sub's mastery AND a baseline 50% damage buff. Venomous Wound procs don't do that much damage either, and stacked together with Rupture's usual ticks, they only seem to produce the same damage as an Instant Poison hit, I reckon.

    It's just not viable. There's only one real option for cleaving, and that is unfortunately Blade Flurry.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    It's not surprising, really. Rupture ticks for shit, even in Sub where it's buffed by Sub's mastery AND a baseline 50% damage buff. Venomous Wound procs don't do that much damage either, and stacked together with Rupture's usual ticks, they only seem to produce the same damage as an Instant Poison hit, I reckon.

    It's just not viable. There's only one real option for cleaving, and that is unfortunately Blade Flurry.
    The logic behind multi-rupture isn't its direct damage. It's that every time it ticks it has a 75% chance of generating 10 energy. It's that bonus energy that would make rupture worth using (and is really the only reason we use it to begin with).
    "Our logic is actually pretty simple. If hybrid classes can do the same dps as pure classes, then why have pure classes in the game? So we design the pure classes to do slightly higher dps." -Ghostcrawler 3/22/2009
    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15864857264&pageNo=4&sid=1#66

  12. #12
    Multi-rupture is something for assassination because of the energy regen, as sub it's completely pointless as you have CT AoE DoT/SV application purposes.

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