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  1. #121
    Pandaren Monk WarpedAcorn's Avatar
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    I remember playing SW:G back in the day and having a blast running around from planet to planet where I collected and refueled my little resource harvesters, tricking out my house with goofy decor, and building "Survival Kits" to put on the Auction House that had all sorts of clothing, stims, and basic weapons. I can't say how much time I spent doing things that didn't "improve" my character like a classic theme park game does, and yet it was way fun.

    Its not going to happen, but SWTOR could have benefited from some more Sandbox elements, specifically related to the "Space Game". As a theme park, you can only take the ride so many times and fans will begin to get bored with the ride long before you can design a new one (unless you're a company called Trion). That being said, I absolutely (nod to Erickson) loved the PvP Warzones, but can not justify $15 a month to just do those (especially when the 10-49 Bracket is way more fun).

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Howdyho View Post
    Honestly people need to pipe down about these things. They sold out to EA, EA didn't do anything wrong there, it was their decision.
    Actually Bioware, apparently, had no say in the EA buy out. The deal was worked out between the investment firm that bought bioware 2 years before EA and EA.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 09:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by WarpedAcorn View Post
    (especially when the 10-49 Bracket is way more fun).
    Yes. Normalized PVP is more fun than gear based PVP.

    Because gear grinding removes the intrinsic motivation of PVP.

    Edit:

    Oh. And this happened today. http://starcitizen.robertsspaceindustries.com/
    Last edited by Bardarian; 2012-10-11 at 12:42 AM.
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  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Azuri View Post
    That's a very important statement above. ^ It's clear and obvious that no new MMO will rake in the subs WoW does that's a no brainer but you've got to beat them as far as quality and amount of content goes and go "outside of the box". As an outsider I recently got an e-mail saying come back for patch 1.4. It was so underwhelming as non-player I just facepalmed when I read what they were offering me to come back. I'm sorry it doesn't cut it for me anyways I don't even have to buy the box since I already own it from launch but it's not enough. For reference here's what the e-mail looked like:





    This to me isn't impressive enough to lure me back, maybe I'm just spoiled or "entitled" (I should make it clear I don't play WoW and I'm not hating on SWTOR, I just expect more from a sub based game) Other then the new operation the other 3 points don't come across as "exciting".
    I'm sorry, I just find it laughable that one of their selling points for coming back is that you now get returned to your pre-FP location at the conclusion of an FP. Something that should have been implemented as soon as the Group Finder was conceived.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 11:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    Actually Bioware, apparently, had no say in the EA buy out. The deal was worked out between the investment firm that bought bioware 2 years before EA and EA.
    But, like I posted before, the interesting aside to that story is that John Riccitiello was involved with both acquisitions. He was a part of Elevation Partners when they bought up and merged Bioware and Pandemic and then the CEO of EA when they acquired them from Elevation Partners. He really loves Bioware.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by WarpedAcorn View Post
    I remember playing SW:G back in the day and having a blast running around from planet to planet where I collected and refueled my little resource harvesters, tricking out my house with goofy decor, and building "Survival Kits" to put on the Auction House that had all sorts of clothing, stims, and basic weapons. I can't say how much time I spent doing things that didn't "improve" my character like a classic theme park game does, and yet it was way fun.
    I remember playing Assassins Creed 2 or 3?! where you get your little estate to build up etc.... if you could just do more with your damn ship... oh well.

    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    Yes. Normalized PVP is more fun than gear based PVP.

    Because gear grinding removes the intrinsic motivation of PVP.
    It doesn't matter if 1-49 or 50 bracket. "Fun" PvP is only if you can play against equal players. If i can pull 350k+ damage as lvl 27 and the next dd is at 160k while playing with some higher lvl chars there is something wrong an it's not the gear.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    It doesn't matter if 1-49 or 50 bracket. "Fun" PvP is only if you can play against equal players. If i can pull 350k+ damage as lvl 27 and the next dd is at 160k while playing with some higher lvl chars there is something wrong an it's not the gear.
    The biggest problem with any PvP normalization is that classes must be balanced. TOR's PvP isn't anywhere near balanced.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    I remember playing Assassins Creed 2 or 3?! where you get your little estate to build up etc.... if you could just do more with your damn ship... oh well.



    It doesn't matter if 1-49 or 50 bracket. "Fun" PvP is only if you can play against equal players. If i can pull 350k+ damage as lvl 27 and the next dd is at 160k while playing with some higher lvl chars there is something wrong an it's not the gear.
    It is the gear causing those gaps. Next time you zone in to a low lvl WZ look at ppls life pools the sub 12k ppl are behind in the gear curve and their dmg will suffer. The dps toons you see that are 13 to 14500 are using lvl current modded gear and will crush ppl.

    I don't agree or see how anybody can call sub 50 pvp fair or normalized even if thats what bolster tries to do. Even out life all you want the higher lvl toons with multiple attacks, stuns and ways to break free should win every single time. Any of the toons that are below 25 or so are screwed they are just missing too many key abilities to really have a chance when facing an equally skilled or even slightly worse player with a higher lvl toon. It would be nice if they split the sub 50 bracket into a 40 to 49 and 10 to 39 or something like that. The biggest downside of course would be the queue times would become way worse.
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  7. #127
    Pandaren Monk WarpedAcorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    I remember playing Assassins Creed 2 or 3?! where you get your little estate to build up etc.... if you could just do more with your damn ship... oh well.
    Even something as simple as that, a means to personalize your starship, would be awesome. An ability to buy, outfit, and make use of other starship models would also be super cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by tyrven
    I don't agree or see how anybody can call sub 50 pvp fair or normalized even if thats what bolster tries to do. Even out life all you want the higher lvl toons with multiple attacks, stuns and ways to break free should win every single time. Any of the toons that are below 25 or so are screwed they are just missing too many key abilities to really have a chance when facing an equally skilled or even slightly worse player with a higher lvl toon. It would be nice if they split the sub 50 bracket into a 40 to 49 and 10 to 39 or something like that. The biggest downside of course would be the queue times would become way worse.
    As someone who has leveled virtually every class, most all classes are viable by 20 in the lower bracket. I found the Sniper/Gunslinger to come into his own the quickest, getting virtually everything he needs to be successful by 13. The Marauder/Sentinel took a little longer, I think closer to 30 before I felt it became strong enough to start Rambo'ing nodes.

    I can say, from experience, that the class levels did not make a difference unless you had an entire team full of sub 20 level players. I've been in many situations where the opposing team had a higher average level than us, and we still won. This usually boiled down to relying more on team play than solo showboating.

    I won't deny the advantage having more skills and talent points possesses. In fact I never felt as powerful as I did when I had a 49 Deception Spec'd Assassin. But I don't think the 10-49 bracket really needs to be split up. Honestly most 10's are only in it for their daily after they hit the Fleet. It only takes an afternoon or 2 to get from 10-20 anyways, at which point they become much more competative.

  8. #128
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    John Riccitiello was involved with both acquisitions. *snip* He really loves Bioware.
    Let me fix that for you. "He really loves destroying Bioware."

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Let me fix that for you. "He really loves destroying Bioware."
    To be fair, all of the Mass Effects and Dragon Age games came out during Bioware's tenure with EA. Although the first Mass Effect was likely being worked on while Bioware was part of Elevation Partners.

  10. #130
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    To be fair, all of the Mass Effects and Dragon Age games came out during Bioware's tenure with EA. Although the first Mass Effect was likely being worked on while Bioware was part of Elevation Partners.
    Nothing worse than letting a company with a good rep continue to work on their own ideas while you slowly creep your hand over to pull their pants down. Also, DA is overrated as a series. Maybe one individual title is 'great', but the others are pretty average. I guess I really could say the same about ME3 being less than stellar.

    I don't really expect anything great to come out of Bioware for a long time now. I mean regardless of EA's involvement, great companies don't always ride off into the sunset on a wave of success. Nintendo used to be one of the best game companies ever. Up through the 64, and maybe a handful of titles on the Gamecube, they kept their great franchises...well, great. Now they are a shadow of their former self giving us gimmicks in place of great stories.

  11. #131
    Pandaren Monk WarpedAcorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    To be fair, all of the Mass Effects and Dragon Age games came out during Bioware's tenure with EA. Although the first Mass Effect was likely being worked on while Bioware was part of Elevation Partners.
    I could have sworn that ME1 and DA: Origins came out before the EA buyout. ME2 was in development during and after the buyout, as well as DA: Awakenings. DA2 and ME3 were 100% fully under the watchful all-seeing eye of Sauro-Errr I mean EA. =)

    I could be wrong on that, but I am 99% sure about ME1 and DA:Origins.

    (Also, DA is a great throwback series that had a lot of potential. Awakenings was a HUGE step in the right direction in improving issues Origins had. DA2 took 1 step forward and 2 steps back unfortunately.)

  12. #132
    DA: O came out after they were part of EA, but it was developed while they were still independent. So even though it was released as an EA game, it was all Bioware.
    WoW having more subs than SWTOR is the same thing as Justin Bieber having more youtube plays than Tupac. Just because its more popular doesn't mean its good.
    Warcraft Lore has gone from one of the most vast and interesting stories in all of gaming to a bad Thrall Fanfic by Chris Metzen.
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  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by WarpedAcorn View Post
    I could have sworn that ME1 and DA: Origins came out before the EA buyout. ME2 was in development during and after the buyout, as well as DA: Awakenings. DA2 and ME3 were 100% fully under the watchful all-seeing eye of Sauro-Errr I mean EA. =)

    I could be wrong on that, but I am 99% sure about ME1 and DA:Origins.

    (Also, DA is a great throwback series that had a lot of potential. Awakenings was a HUGE step in the right direction in improving issues Origins had. DA2 took 1 step forward and 2 steps back unfortunately.)
    EA bought up Bioware/Pandemic in October of 2007. Mass Effect came out in November of that year. Origins didn't come out until 2009.

  14. #134
    Seeing as how the things Bioware have done recently haven't gone so well, and the direction the company is taking, maybe it'll do them good to get some new people.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    if you could just do more with your damn ship... oh well.
    Ship customization should have really been a day one feature.

  16. #136
    Dreadlord Vexies's Avatar
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    According to the internet.. EVERYTHING should of been a day one feature.

    I cringe when I see people say that SWTOR brought nothing new to the table when you have companions, fully voiced questing (still as far as im concerned the best questing / fully voiced story of any mmo out today) and personal story. I could go on but these stand out to me. These things where really brought to the fore front and done extremely well. Bioware delivered and extremely fun questing experience. Say what you will, yes they dropped the ball in multiple locations but at the end of the day its still a good game that could of, should of been great but was killed due to inept communication and the toxic gaming community that exists today.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Vexies View Post
    According to the internet.. EVERYTHING should of been a day one feature.

    I cringe when I see people say that SWTOR brought nothing new to the table when you have companions, fully voiced questing (still as far as im concerned the best questing / fully voiced story of any mmo out today) and personal story. I could go on but these stand out to me. These things where really brought to the fore front and done extremely well. Bioware delivered and extremely fun questing experience. Say what you will, yes they dropped the ball in multiple locations but at the end of the day its still a good game that could of, should of been great but was killed due to inept communication and the toxic gaming community that exists today.
    Companions - useless at endgame other than what, crafting? Dailies?

    Fully-voiced questing - it's neat, but it really adds nothing to the longevity of a game.

    Personal story - I think we can all agree that SWTOR leveling and story was great. But after that's done, there's nothing.

    Nobody is disputing the questing experience, but what SWTOR failed to realize is that the questing experience only lasts us 1 month, 2 months for the really slow guys. After that, what? There needs to be something substantial, and not just "WoW features that aren't as good as WoW".
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  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    The biggest problem with any PvP normalization is that classes must be balanced. TOR's PvP isn't anywhere near balanced.
    so what's not balanced... can't you put at least the effort in your posts to back your claims?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrven View Post
    It is the gear causing those gaps. Next time you zone in to a low lvl WZ look at ppls life pools the sub 12k ppl are behind in the gear curve and their dmg will suffer. The dps toons you see that are 13 to 14500 are using lvl current modded gear and will crush ppl.

    I don't agree or see how anybody can call sub 50 pvp fair or normalized even if thats what bolster tries to do. Even out life all you want the higher lvl toons with multiple attacks, stuns and ways to break free should win every single time. Any of the toons that are below 25 or so are screwed they are just missing too many key abilities to really have a chance when facing an equally skilled or even slightly worse player with a higher lvl toon. It would be nice if they split the sub 50 bracket into a 40 to 49 and 10 to 39 or something like that. The biggest downside of course would be the queue times would become way worse.
    I don't really care for people who go in the pvp with lvl 10 gear and lvl 49 charlevel to be quiet honest. You also don't go in the lvl 50 bracket with green quest gear and 0 expertise are you? If you equip yourself in 1-49 bracket with green items on your current level which you get in case you are questing (or pvping so you can buy lvl 20/40 gear, or running flashpoints... etc. there is no excuse to not be equipped in any way).... there is no item issue. I just had a lvl 42 Marauder with 14k life and you know how much damage he did?... 74k, I did tripple as much with 12,9k life and gear from 5 lvls ago. Hell I can do 150k with a lvl 11 marauder. The problem was not his gear or anything but that this guy was camping with his marauder buddy on one cannon, whenever there came some opponent... they lost the cannon against 2 people and you really wanne talk it down to skills... equipment and such stuff when, what I experience in the last 2 warzones, is the most common in low pvp games? You can't even vote these guys because they can move a step and the game recognizes them to "do" something.

    A lvl 49 has more skills but due the buffing your skills most likely do more damage, otherwise I couldn't pull 200k at lvl 13 with no skills at all. While it certainly is true that you have more skills to use, that's no excuse to excel at least to some limit when you pvp.
    Last edited by Psychlon; 2012-10-11 at 04:42 PM.

  19. #139
    I am Murloc! SirRobin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vexies View Post
    According to the internet.. EVERYTHING should of been a day one feature.
    Pretty much.

    Still, it seems pretty clear from Rich and Dallas's talk at GDC that TOR's development got away from them. It appears that they didn't actually get a handle on it until Gordon "decided" to leave and suddenly things "changed" in TOR's Beta. Only about ten months from launch. So I'm not at all surprised that a lot which probably should have been in, ended up on the cutting room floor.

  20. #140
    Why is it that people seem to think only things that matter at end game count? I see that often over and over. X doesn't matter because it wasn't useful at endgame. If you used something all throughout leveling doesn't that mean that this was useful?

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