1. #1

    Whats up with unholy? (pvp)

    This thread is mostly pvp friendly, im only worried about pvp more than pve and i think unholys are doing fine in pve.

    So here is my question:

    --------What is up with unholys?----------

    I mean... i've done at least 20+ bgs so far and not ONCE i've seen an unholy, in fact i've approached a group of 7 dks (eots) and all of them were frost spec except for one who was of course blood. I hear rumors that unholy just isn't the way it used to be and probably won't be a viable spec... is this true?

    So again i ask, is unholy dead?

  2. #2
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Unholy is fine. The reason you see more Frost DK's is because Frost generally does better than Unholy in random BG's. Not to mention that Frost is easier to play, so most randoms will pick it up over Unholy.

    Unholy in my opinion, is a vastly superior spec when it comes to small scale battles such as arena.

    It has a pet stun and pet interrupt,

    extra healing from death coil,

    more death coils from lichborne,

    better necrotic debuffs,

    better Soul Reaper damage

    better control over death runes and more of them.

  3. #3
    High Overlord Naeton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    Unholy is fine. The reason you see more Frost DK's is because Frost generally does better than Unholy in random BG's. Not to mention that Frost is easier to play, so most randoms will pick it up over Unholy.
    This is exactly what I wanted to say ugh!
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    Unholy is fine. The reason you see more Frost DK's is because Frost generally does better than Unholy in random BG's. Not to mention that Frost is easier to play, so most randoms will pick it up over Unholy.

    Unholy in my opinion, is a vastly superior spec when it comes to small scale battles such as arena.

    It has a pet stun and pet interrupt,

    extra healing from death coil,

    more death coils from lichborne,

    better necrotic debuffs,

    better Soul Reaper damage

    better control over death runes and more of them.
    Well, im a little more worried about our dmg rather than control and skill (in my opinion, unholy is not hard to play, easier than frost) but honestly i can pull off an easy 80k obliterate crit or a 20k SS crit, yeah.... im sure unholy needs to be looked at dmg wise.

  5. #5
    Unholy will always be better but many people who i've talked to simply don't like unholy because of the burst, the ramp up time is too long, pet dies too easy and you'll end up losing sustained damage to heal him. Frost is noob friendly im bgs, walk up to someone and get some high crits but suvivability doesnt compare to UH, if i wanted a hard hitting 2 hander i would roll a warrior who is clearly superior currently in the game.


    OT, saw someone post about healing with LB... has anyone else had problems with that? i've had multiple times full RP and hit my LB heal macro and only get 1 off ( not silenced) just to sit there spamming it wondering why the f im not healing. maybe it's just me.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    Well, im a little more worried about our dmg rather than control and skill (in my opinion, unholy is not hard to play, easier than frost) but honestly i can pull off an easy 80k obliterate crit or a 20k SS crit, yeah.... im sure unholy needs to be looked at dmg wise.
    Nercrotic strike > SS

    Unholy is vary viable with our damage not dependent on our pet or garg an with the change to Nercrtoic we would be op..... But with the way healers are tisk tisk blizz frost outshines unholy cause of burst but once everyone is full geared and nerfs go out crossfingers(bm hunters,mage spriest pretty much any caster lol) we will be in a good spot
    Last edited by nohands101; 2012-10-04 at 04:19 PM.

  7. #7
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klob View Post
    Unholy will always be better but many people who i've talked to simply don't like unholy because of the burst, the ramp up time is too long, pet dies too easy and you'll end up losing sustained damage to heal him. Frost is noob friendly im bgs, walk up to someone and get some high crits but suvivability doesnt compare to UH, if i wanted a hard hitting 2 hander i would roll a warrior who is clearly superior currently in the game.


    OT, saw someone post about healing with LB... has anyone else had problems with that? i've had multiple times full RP and hit my LB heal macro and only get 1 off ( not silenced) just to sit there spamming it wondering why the f im not healing. maybe it's just me.
    The pet health is the one thing that bothers me. I literally almost feel like I spend half of my death coils on the pet.

    I agree with your sediment about Frost. Just play an Arms Warrior if you want to play a Frost DK. Frost brings absolutely nothing other than damage and some utility.

  8. #8
    And come to think of it, our pets don't do alot of dmg in fact i noticed our pets do less dmg at lvl 90 than back in cata (except gargoyle) and also our pets can be killed easily and cced.

    And Death Coil does less dmg than howling blast.... and i can compare every ability from frost to unholy, the dmg is just miserable.
    Last edited by Beefkow; 2012-10-04 at 10:28 PM.

  9. #9
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    Unholy is far superior in an arena setting: good utility and massive pressure with trinket, garg, enraged pet and necrotics, most healers will fall over if you dont get peeled.

    as for random bg's i would say frost is the way to go; as unholy in bg's by the time you have got your diseases/death runes up and have banked some runic power, your target is usually dead :<
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  10. #10
    The Patient BlackBoss's Avatar
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    I love being Unholy for pvp, been doing it since wrath. Unholy was designed with pvp in mind. I love seeing frost or blood in bgs, let's me know who my targets are. Lately I've seen more and more unholy dks running around the bg's, quite opposite of the OP's experience. They are quite hard to kill and quick. Lots of pressure and raping dots. If i see unholy in a bg. I take them out first, usually when they focus on someone else.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-05 at 12:59 AM ----------

    It seems that the goul AI is a bit buggy. the Necrotic strike nerf is pretty fucking painful. Asphyxiate+Soul Reaper is on some very brutal shit.
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  11. #11
    Unholy has lots of keys and pet management and crap, while frost is basically faceroll. Also the difference between then in performance isn't that big, so people prefer frost unless they got a fetish for that kind of difficulty (yeah, seems most monk players have some fetish for playing a class with tons of keys, buffs and debuffs, as they have admitted themselves).

  12. #12
    I am not playing unholy because the ghoul is just shit at the moment.

  13. #13
    I think you are seeing more frost DKs because it's a lot easier to pick up and play and you can just faceroll BG's without having to think about managing CD's or a pet. Unholy is far more rewarding and all round a better spec IMO. Far more utilities and more survivability against Warriors. I'm basically echoing whats already been said, Frost is noob friendly, but UH is generally a better all round spec.

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  14. #14
    Well i guess ill just go frost for 2's and bgs but 3's i can see unholy being useful.

    Unholy + affliction lock + healer = epic dot cleave (Diseases tick for quite a bit of dmg).

    Still... overall unholy needs a little buffing (SS and str nerf to begin with is just absurd).

  15. #15
    the survability gap between frost and unholy has closed alot with the talent revamp. Before unholy had better AMS, death pact and lichborne and magic zone(if anyone acutally specced into it)-that is now open to all dks. Yes because of ghoul stun and bigger Lichborne heals the survaiblity of unholy is better than frost but not by the leaps and bounds it was in cata.
    My guess though is Frost will prolly be seen the most in bgs, rbgs whilst unholy will be most often seen in arena

  16. #16
    1: Frost has a better ease of using Glyph of Icy Touch to spam dispels without sacrificing too much damage. Unholy fucks it's damage to do so.
    2: Frost has more frequent burst potential, as opposed to UH that gets to burst every 3 minutes with Frenzy/Gargoyle, which will coincide with most peoples' major defensive CDs.
    3: Frost Spec forces you into Frost Presence, which reduces the amount of time spent in control effects by 20%, Unholy doesn't offer such a bonus.
    4: Pets are incredibly squishy, Unholy *IS* good until someone decides to stun you and global your pet. (Yes, even through Huddle)

    Things you need to keep in mind is Weapon Damage scaling vs Stat scaling. I love Unholy dearly, so it saddens me to say this, but right now Frost simply has better output due to the fact that it mostly relies on weapon damage, unlike Unholy which relies much more on high amounts of strength and haste, which the gear we have has yet to provide an amount that can outweigh weapon damage alone. Unholy does become offensively superior to Frost with full Malevolent plus a T2 weapon, but then it's purely a debate on if you want raw output and quicker movement speed (provided you're not snared) or if you want easier dispels, a more forgiving rune priority system, and 20% off of the CC effects on you.

    Frost will always be superior towards the beginning of an expansion, but Unholy always overtakes frost as we get further in because we eventually get enough haste to do whatever the hell we want.

    EDIT: Regardless, Frost is the one you'll wanna use for RBGs. The AOE Damage is just too good to pass up.

  17. #17
    Unholy is boring in BG's... but I'm pretty sure it will still be king for arenas.

  18. #18
    Well.. i don't see myself going unholy EVER now, 100k crits are all over the place as frost, screw unholy.

    Idk whats special about unholy, frost is better than unholy in every shape and form.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    Well.. i don't see myself going unholy EVER now, 100k crits are all over the place as frost, screw unholy.

    Idk whats special about unholy, frost is better than unholy in every shape and form.
    Not in arena where there are heals going on. Frost doesn't have as much uptime with necrotic strikes, so your 100k crits get outhealed. Also, for unholy diseases hurt a lot more, so you can have pressure even on targets you are not focusing, whereas frost is mostly target focused, unless your opponents are idiots and stand bunched up to be howling blasted.

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